Can they get more poison damage? Even late game when I had a lot of AP my W and Q seemed to do mostly nothing to people. My E was still chunking them if I was close enough, but the poison itself seemed lackluster.
Serpents Embrace7 votesYou enjoy her new playstyle?
You enjoy a cumbersome to cast ability that works almost identical to an auto-attack with low range?
The poison seems lackluster, even after the rather useless debuff added on to E that amplifies poison damage, because Stashu willingly made it useless to siphon all of its power in to Twin Fang. Basically your point is "I enjoy Cassiopeia's new playstyle but I don't like Cassiopeia new playstyle" which makes literally no sense.
Kingsgrave1 votes[{quoted}](name=Serpents Embrace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sLeQ0EG9,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2014-12-12T01:10:23.700+0000) You enjoy her new playstyle?
You enjoy a cumbersome to cast ability that works almost identical to an auto-attack with low range?
The poison seems lackluster, even after the rather useless debuff added on to E that amplifies poison damage, because Stashu willingly made it useless to siphon all of its power in to Twin Fang. Basically your point is "I enjoy Cassiopeia's new playstyle but I don't like Cassiopeia new playstyle" which makes literally no sense.
I like her playstyle but not her damage. I wish it was better. Even if you buff the damage her playstyle won't change.
I liked Rengar before he was buffed after being released when he did nothing and was clunky, but his playstyle was still the same albeit less successful.
Serpents Embrace7 votesCassiopeia's play patterns are the same as before the rework. Stashu didn't invent Q E E as a combo. All he actually did is make that particular combo the only one numerically sound.
If you really like playing as Cass, you shouldn't dream of giving Stashu the positive feedback that will make him feel like his changes are justified.
Kingsgrave1 votes[{quoted}](name=Serpents Embrace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sLeQ0EG9,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2014-12-12T01:39:00.391+0000) Cassiopeia's play patterns are the same as before the rework. Stashu didn't invent Q E E as a combo. All he actually did is make that particular combo the only one numerically sound.
If you really like playing as Cass, you shouldn't dream of giving Stashu the positive feedback that will make him feel like his changes are justified.
Im sorry that I like that they made Cass more of a skirmisher and less of a poker. Why don't you continue to condemn people for their opinions?
Serpents Embrace4 votesSorry, maybe you should try to communicate more effectively.
And maybe do some research. Your point isn't new and has been a major complaint since before 4.16 went Live. And if you'd read anything about this rework before hand, you'd realize that the whole rework is pretty much revolving around draining power from Q and W. You can either have your "skirmisher" play-style or you can have an entire kit of meaningful skills. Not both.
Kingsgrave1 votes[{quoted}](name=Serpents Embrace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sLeQ0EG9,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-12T02:14:21.878+0000) Sorry, maybe you should try to communicate more effectively.
And maybe do some research. Your point isn't new and has been a major complaint since before 4.16 went Live. And if you'd read anything about this rework before hand, you'd realize that the whole rework is pretty much revolving around draining power from Q and W. You can either have your "skirmisher" play-style or you can have an entire kit of meaningful skills. Not both.
I've read the majority of the circlejerk condemn and complain threads.
In my personal opinion I think Q should be scrapped entirely and an entirely new ability should be put in place.
Serpents Embrace7 votesYou're the same as Stashu.
If you wanted him to make a new champion, like he so clearly did, you should have left Cassiopeia's community out of it.
Orangesilk4 votesQ and W don't force you to commit, damage without commitment is unhealthy and is the reason the community hates a Ziggs or Nidalee dominated meta. Cassiopeia needs to commit to deal damage, that's the point, that's WHO SHE IS.
Abyssphere5 votes{quoted} Q and W don't force you to commit, damage without commitment is unhealthy and is the reason the community hates a Ziggs or Nidalee dominated meta. Cassiopeia needs to commit to deal damage, that's the point, that's WHO SHE IS.
The range on her poke is standard for mages and nothing like Nidalee spears. How can you complain about Cass when mid lane is dominated by the likes of Xerath?
Orangesilk1 votesBecause that's not what Cassio is supposed to do, she's not a traditional mage, who should get a traditional kit, if anything, asking for her to have a bland kit that's hard to differentiate from the other mages is a BAD thing. No one has ever complained about Cassios poke because that has never been her thing (even pre rework, that was a very subpar way of playing her) and it has always been rather weak, her thing has always been the brutal dps she can do when she goes ham on someone, that hasn't changed in this rework, if anything, the only thing that has substantially changed in this rework is her power curve.
You keep saying the new passive is uninteractive and what not, but her old passive wasn't more interactive, if anything her old passive was ALL about going ham on someone poisoned, her old passive existed so she could afford casting E 6 times on a row on someone, that's it. Her focus has always been her E, but before the rework, it was an unintended effect of a very old kit, after this rework, it's like the designers finally recognized her E should be the main dps skill by design and commited to it.
It's not rare for a champion to have a main DPS skill and several supplementary ones, 
. You can't just say you think Ryze or Nasus are bad design because all their damage is centered around a single skill while the rest are merely set up for that one skill.
The Queen Viper1 voteslulz... meanwhile 
and 
.
Orangesilk1 votesWait, you want Cassio to become cancerous like them?, I don't think this game needs ANOTHER poke mage.
The Queen Viper2 votes{quoted} Wait, you want Cassio to become cancerous like them?, I don't think this game needs ANOTHER poke mage.
I want her to be viable.
Saevum3 votesMore poison, more poison, more poison, more poison. Poison Mage. More poison, more poison, more poison, more poison. Poison Mage. More poison, more poison, more poison, more poison. Poison Mage. More poison, more poison, more poison, more poison. Poison Mage.
You think that paragraph may have a chance through Stashu's rock-head?
Kingsgrave2 votes{quoted} More snake, more snake, more snake, more snake. Snake Mage. More snake, more snake, more snake, more snake. Snake Mage. More snake, more snake, more snake, more snake. Snake Mage. More snake, more snake, more snake, more snake. Snake Mage.
How he sees it
xJLx MCHammer2 votesIt's a lot of dmg from Q With E debuff it's the same as pre rework
Mathbalnase12 votes'Q damage with E debuff' is not Q damage. It is Q/E combo damage.
Q and W, on their own, are mostly worthless.
xJLx MCHammer3 votes{quoted} 'Q damage with E debuff' is not Q damage. It is Q/E combo damage.
Q and W, on their own, are mostly worthless.
That was the intention....
Mathbalnase8 votesThere is not 'a lot of damage from Q', though. There is a lot of damage from Q/E combo. Which has all the weaknesses of Q (delayed skillshot delivering delayed damage, etc) and E (short range, heavily punitive of misclicks, mana-intensive, etc), but none of the strengths of Q (decent range, AoE, etc).
No other champion in League has so much of their kit's power tethered to a single ability. Not one. There's a reason for that. It feels like shit. It's bad game design.
RiotRiot King Cobra4 votes{quoted} There is not 'a lot of damage from Q', though. There is a lot of damage from Q/E combo. Which has all the weaknesses of Q (delayed skillshot delivering delayed damage, etc) and E (short range, heavily punitive of misclicks, mana-intensive, etc), but none of the strengths of Q (decent range, AoE, etc).
No other champion in League has so much of their kit's power tethered to a single ability. Not one. There's a reason for that. It feels like shit. It's bad game design.
And E on its own is useless. They made her kit much more cohesive. To get the most out of Q you need to use E and to get the most out of E you need to use Q - aka using the entirety of her kit instead of just 1 spell like you used to be able to get away with if you maxed Q. I think it's awesome that, on their own, none of Cassio's abilities are remarkable, but when you string them together all become powerful in different ways.
Joe Dredd1 votesagreed
Joe Dredd2 votesUrgot. If you miss his E you are useless, but if you hit it your Q is insane. pls get facts
Narasimha2 votesNo other champion in League has so much of their kit's power tethered to a single ability. Not one.
Ahahahahahahahaha... Oh wait, you were serious? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Mathbalnase9 votesBlitz punch is plenty effective if landed on its own. Blitz grab is plenty effective if landed on its own.
Eve I haven't played in ages. Which of her abilities do basically nothing when used on their own?
Karthus Q is great on its own. Karthus aura is great on its own.
GP Q is great on its own. GP cleanse is great on its own.
Nasus Q is great on its own. Nasus slow is amazing always.
Morg Q is great on its own. Morg shield is great on its own.
Cass Q is crap on its own. Cass W is crap on its own. Cass E is crap on its own.
xJLx MCHammer1 votes{quoted} Blitz punch is plenty effective if landed on its own. Blitz grab is plenty effective if landed on its own.
Eve I haven't played in ages. Which of her abilities do basically nothing when used on their own?
Karthus Q is great on its own. Karthus aura is great on its own.
GP Q is great on its own. GP cleanse is great on its own.
Nasus Q is great on its own. Nasus slow is amazing always.
Morg Q is great on its own. Morg shield is great on its own.
Cass Q is crap on its own. Cass W is crap on its own. Cass E is crap on its own.
Lol that ending about Cass
This is why you can't be taken seriously
Narasimha4 votesYou're going down a different path. The statement was: "No other champion in League has so much of their kit's power tethered to a single ability. Not one." Not "Which ability is useful/useless on its own."
Blitz: Power budget is in Q. Eve: Power budget is in passive. Karthus: Power budget is in ult. GP: Power budget is in Q. Nasus: Power budget is in Q. Morg: Power budget is in Q.
Incidently, these aren't opinions. Its literally been stated by everyone from pro players to Riot that these abilities contain more value than the others on the kit.
Mathbalnase1 votesIncidently, these aren't opinions. Its literally been stated by everyone from pro players to Riot that these abilities contain more value than the others on the kit.
'more value than the others on the kit' is not a problem. Morg's power budget can be disproportionately assigned to her Q without gutting the farming potential of her W or the protective value of her E. They're likely less awesome than they would be in Q's absence, but they're still useful. 'So much more value than the others that they are useless in its absence' IS a problem, and is only further compounded by the 'powerful' ability itself only being useful in combination as well.
Mathbalnase4 votesOr hey, Karthus. You say his power budget is in his ult?
Let's compare Qs, Karthus to Cass CDs - 1 : 4 Mana Cost - 1 : 2 -> ~2 : 3 Base Damage (single target) - roughly even AP scaling - 0.6 : 0.45 Delay - 0.5 : 0.4
A SINGLE Karthus Q hits harder than a Cass Q, is on a dramatically shorter CD, and costs less mana
Even taking Karthus' Q hitting multiple targets, and factoring in Cass' in-built CDR, Karthus' DPS from Q alone is several times that of Cass' DPS from Q alone.
So yeah. Bullshit.
Narasimha2 votesBase Damage (single target) - roughly even
Lets read that again
Base Damage (single target)
One more time
(single target)
So what does this mean? This mean the fact that if Cass hits 2 or more people with one Q, she already massively outdamages Karth. If anything, Karthus's damage comes from his W + E more than his Q. At the least, don't lie and mislead people. But I digress. Karthus's Q does damage, and does more damage if it hits a single target. Cass's Q does greater damage regardless of number of targets, plus has utility value in its MS boost. Incidentally, the greater scaling doesn't help because Cass's passive (eventually) makes up for it.
Mathbalnase2 votesSee later in the same post: even against multiple targets, the disparity in CD more than makes up for the reduced damage.
Karthus Q DPS, multi-target hits, per target 120+.3
Cass Q DPS, per target, adjusted to include max-stacked passive CDR and AP amp less than 80+.2 (rounded up because I feel generous)
Not even at full stacks of her tedious passive does Cass even come close to making up the damage.
Mathbalnase1 votesAnd since I have so little faith in your ability to perform basic math, I'm now going to add in the damage amplification of two stacks of Cass' E and do that comparison again.
Remember, Karthus gets 120+.3AP DPS against each target hit assuming he hits more than one target
Cass now gets... 112+.28AP
Did you know that that is, in fact, LESS than 120+.3AP?
How much more do you think we could stack this comparison in Cass' favour?
DrCyanide1 votes{quoted} There is not 'a lot of damage from Q', though. There is a lot of damage from Q/E combo. Which has all the weaknesses of Q (delayed skillshot delivering delayed damage, etc) and E (short range, heavily punitive of misclicks, mana-intensive, etc), but none of the strengths of Q (decent range, AoE, etc).
No other champion in League has so much of their kit's power tethered to a single ability. Not one. There's a reason for that. It feels like shit. It's bad game design.
Serpents Embrace4 votesAn idiotic intention is still ineffective and idiotic...
ImHerVoice2 votesbecause they are useless
Elphrihaim1 votesre: Karthus Q v Cassiopeia Q
Karthus:
40/60/80/100/120 (+30% AP) doubled if it hits only one enemy 1 second cooldown 20/26/32/38/44 Mana 200u center-center radius*
Cassiopeia:
75 / 115 / 155 / 195 / 235 (+ 45% AP) to all enemies over 3 seconds 4 second cooldown 40/45/50/55/60 Mana 75u edge-edge radius*
So by the looks of this, we can get off AT LEAST TWO Karthus Qs for every Cassiopeia Q. For the sake of missing being a thing, let's say that Karthus gets 2 Qs for every 1 of Cassiopeia's. That sounds a EXTREMELY biased towards Cassiopeia to me, since the truly fair ratio would be 4:1.
Cassiopeia will deal 75-235 (+45% AP). Cassiopeia will spend 40-60 Mana.
Karthus will deal 80-240 (+60% AP). If Karthus only hits one enemy with a Q, that enemy is going to take an additional 40-120 (+30% AP) damage. If he hits only one enemy with both Qs, that enemy will take a total of 160-480 (+120% AP) damage. Karthus will spend 40-88 Mana.
I FIND THE TRUTH TO BE SELF-EVIDENT FROM THE ABOVE.
Namely, that Karthus' Q is far superior damage-wise to Cassiopeia's.
However, the other nuances; lest they be forgotten for they are indeed important:
Cassiopeia's Q is fire-and-forget. You press it once every 4 seconds. It also has a nice haste on it, which allows you to engage or disengage. It enables Twin Fang to be used rapidly.
Karthus' Q requires you to mash it, once every second. Karthus' Q grants vision. Karthus' Q has burst damage (good for last-hits). Karthus' Q has a bit more range and probably slightly larger damage radius in absolute terms.
* AAs and some abilities are measured edge-to-edge, meaning that you can hit a 6-stack Cho with them stupidly easily, but center-center abilities have the same hitbox no matter the size of the edge of the foe (so it is NOT much easier to hit 6-stack than 0-stack Cho, if at all).