Boards›Gameplay

Allow Nocturne to go through walls with his Q trail

Kingsgrave··163 votes·8,073 views

I remember @Meddler was thinking of a bunch of different changes to make Nocturne more thematically awesome a while back, I thought of one to help with that initiative.

Would be super thematic, make him very unique from the likes of Pantheon in terms of what he brings to a team. Right now there is no real reason to pick Nocturne over Vi or Pantheon or even Rengar. They all have some sort of mobility ultimate and single target lockdown as junglers. Lets make Nocturne really a nightmare to deal with.

Also fits really well with his line: "Cross Over"

Think of it as a more limited version of Rek'Sai tunnels essentially. Can only have 1, it doesn't stay, has a cast time to create it and he has to walk through it.

Could allow some interesting chasing and mobility through the map, but at a cost. His Q is a 10 second CD and if he uses it to escape he probably won't be able to chase people down or duel people, so it would be a pretty good "when do I choose to use this" kind of thing.

Also make it so he can attach it to Monsters so he can enter Dragon pit in interesting ways.

Would also be nice if the trail formed and stayed connected if someone blinked or dashed over a wall to go along with this change otherwise it would be really confusing in general.

Thoughts?

Idea for his E to restrict and remove vision of the target if they are on a Duskbringer Dusk Trail: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/yYMPnpTO-if-nocturne-applies-unspeakable-horror-to-a-target-on-a-dusk-trail-their-cone-of-vision-is-reduced

175 Comments

Poptart Evelynn54 votes

I love the idea but that would make him a nightmare.(no pun intended)

Truthteller4 votes

[deleted]

Jillfinger20 votes

{quoted}

A level 2 Nocturne pretty much outduels everyone except tiger udyr and maybe xin

I doubt a LV2 Noc could 1v1 a Lee Sin or a J4, especially after the fear changes.

Kitten of Evil10 votes

He can outduel Lee, but only if you spell-shield his Q.

Kingsgrave4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9JXeh9qe,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-04T20:39:32.567+0000)

He can outduel Lee, but only if you spell-shield his Q.

If, but if you are trying to outduel characters without your E it doesn't really work.

OyddAWqJ5r9 votes

If Lee for some godforsaken Bronze reasoning decides to fight him after not landing Q anyway.

gubigubi18 votes

http://cdn.dota2.com/apps/dota2/images/heroes/spectre_vert.jpg

TagzTM2 votes

U got my like, U know why :))

SmokingPuffin10 votes

It's terrifying.

Totally love it. Unique utility leading to unique gameplay possibility.

ARCDASH2 votes

Unique isn't the right word, considering this exists in Dota 2.

Auz the Ripper5 votes

It is, however, unique to this game. So unique is an acceptable word in this case

pls update shy7 votes

This. So much this. He's already very similar to Spectre from Dota, and this is EXACTLY what her Q does. I was honestly confused the first time I tried him because I COULDN'T do that even though the abilities are so similar.

windwolf7773 votes

Came in here just to mention this. And actually I think that it's fitting as he's essentially LoL's version of Spectre. Q is basically the same, (only trading the free pathing for free ad) R is a global ability that affects all enemy heroes (champs) and allows him to instantly teleport to an enemy hero (champ) W is a bit like desolate as he gains a slight modification to his basic attacks (more AD vs pure ((true) damage on isolated targets)

And his passive is SORTA like an offensive version of dispersion in dealing aoe damage

EDIT: And OP, is that where you got the idea from? I'm just legitimately curious.

Kingsgrave3 votes

{quoted}

Came in here just to mention this. And actually I think that it's fitting as he's essentially LoL's version of Spectre. Q is basically the same, (only trading the free pathing for free ad) R is a global ability that affects all enemy heroes (champs) and allows him to instantly teleport to an enemy hero (champ) W is a bit like desolate as he gains a slight modification to his basic attacks (more AD vs pure ((true) damage on isolated targets)

And his passive is SORTA like an offensive version of dispersion in dealing aoe damage

EDIT: And OP, is that where you got the idea from? I'm just legitimately curious.

Was just thinking of the differences between Nocsai and Rekturne and went "shadow trails could go over walls right?"

Dryditch6 votes

I'd actually start picking him over Xin sometimes. This would be the added mobility Nocturne so desperately needs for quicker early clears.

Orbv6 votes

Please. I have been jungling Aatrox, I would switch to Nocturne for this.

Shouju5 votes

Not only does that sound like it would make Nocturne into an extremely mobile champion, it sounds like it would be followed with heavy nerfs and be extremely hard to code. I do think he should be allowed to attach it to monsters and minions and such, but they don't really go anywhere, and it would disappear the same as it does on the ground. So that's not much use at all.

Kingsgrave2 votes

{quoted}

Not only does that sound like it would make Nocturne into an extremely mobile champion, it sounds like it would be followed with heavy nerfs and be extremely hard to code. I do think he should be allowed to attach it to monsters and minions and such, but they don't really go anywhere, and it would disappear the same as it does on the ground. So that's not much use at all.

Allows him to get his AD bonus more easily while doing monster camps and if this change were made it would allow him to follow them through walls in different ways

GaleWinUnleashed4 votes

I'd be willing to bet that there's a champion in development right now that treats walls differently than others. Perhaps a flying champion, able to see over and move through walls, but at the cost of also being visible to the enemy regardless of walls or bushes.

Kingsgrave8 votes

{quoted}

I'd be willing to bet that there's a champion in development right now that treats walls differently than others. Perhaps a flying champion, able to see over and move through walls, but at the cost of also being visible to the enemy regardless of walls or bushes.

Even so, this would still be largely different than anything that Flying champion would be capable of doing.

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

Something that breaks the usual rules of walls and movement, in any case.

Truthteller6 votes

Shouldn't spooky gangplank also be allowed to walk through walls because, you know, he is a ghost?

Kitten of Evil22 votes

He's not a pirate ghost. He's a ghost pirate! Pirate ghost would suggest a pirate died, then became a ghost, but a ghost pirate is a ghost that later made a conscious decision to be a pirate.

YOU BEEN WARNED3 votes

Pls no, a champion who can use all of his abilities as escape shouldn't get another one.

That's like making LeeSin 's first E slow, and the second reveals/do damage.

I hate disengage champions.

Kingsgrave11 votes

[{quoted}](name=YOU BEEN WARNED,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9JXeh9qe,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-02-04T19:17:17.423+0000)

Pls no, a champion who can use all of his abilities as escape shouldn't get another one.

That's like making LeeSin 's first E slow, and the second reveals/do damage.

He'll just throw it around to escape.

He would have no damage or chase potential if he used it to escape. None of his other skills can be used for an escape.

YOU BEEN WARNED2 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owrwt97AH54

Kingsgrave4 votes

[{quoted}](name=YOU BEEN WARNED,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9JXeh9qe,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2015-02-04T19:20:16.178+0000)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owrwt97AH54

Who knew that spellshields and MS boosts allowed people the possibility to escape?

Its still nothing like Rek'Sai's E or Lee Sin Q or Jarvan QE since Nocturne cannot close any amount of distance quickly and the trail would barely allow him to traverse walls. It wouldn't be instant and it wouldn't be significant, but it would help somewhat.

Meep Man2 votes

[{quoted}](name=YOU BEEN WARNED,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9JXeh9qe,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-02-04T19:17:17.423+0000)

Pls no, a champion who can use all of his abilities as escape shouldn't get another one.

That's like making LeeSin 's first E slow, and the second reveals/do damage.

I hate disengage champions.

You must really hate Kennen then

Kitten of Evil5 votes

And Janna

19 19 193 votes

ngl this is pretty broken cuz if he can escape easily numerous times in duels lol

Kingsgrave6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Excessive Punch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9JXeh9qe,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2015-02-04T21:13:48.143+0000)

ngl this is pretty broken cuz if he can escape easily numerous times in duels lol

Its a 10 second CD though.

It Hertz When IP9 votes

Because no one else in LoL can transverse walls with annoying regularity, right?

Aatrox Akali Ezreal Kassadin Katarina Khazix LeeSin RekSaiShaco Leblanc Thresh Tristana Vi Yasuo Zac Zed

Oh, wait...

Anthroz6 votes

Dont forget these guys too...

Amumu Azir Elise Fizz JarvanIV Jax Lucian Nidalee Riven Tryndamere Ziggs Gragas Graves Gnar

Black Star 12993 votes

Dont forget these guys too... Caitlyn Braum Diana Fiora Corki Jayce Irelia Lissandra MasterYi Quinn MonkeyKing Ahri

Im pretty sure there are a lot more...

TwoD6 votes

don't forget this guy too... summoner 4

BowMaster9303 votes

As another kinda issue I have with Nocturne, I find myself ulting and then only being frustrated or disappointed by the sheer lack of range that it covers. I understand it's extremely strong as a term of mobility, but since it requires vision then can't we say, at least double the range? I feel like it should be slightly less than TF's ult range, which is more useful and about 3-4 times as wide (I haven't crunched the numbers).

Also to add, maybe a nice little mechanic could be added similar to WW's blood scent. When Nocturne ults, he gets vision of all champions that are specifically below a certain % of health, because him landing on them would be their "worst nightmare". Kinda plays into his theme and all.

Rikari3 votes

Nocturne Honey,whats for dinner? RekSai Theres some takeout in the wall. Kassadin F**K you two i hope you get nerfed again.

Kitten of Evil2 votes

I think he'd be more likely to use it as an escape after initiating or ulting. Since, right now, he has no easy way to get out after he dives in.

mi ramfan6 votes

I disagree. I think Nocturne would be more likely to use it to bypass wards for completely unique ganking and invasion paths (not that he doesn't have that ability already with his ult, but this would give him some interesting options pre-6).

FebruAhri2 votes

what would happend if nocturne stays inside a wall and the trail disappears though?

Meep Man10 votes

{quoted}

what would happend if nocturne stays inside a wall and the trail disappears though?

Same thing that happens when Anivia places her W on you. Pushed aside.

AbodyHUN6665 votes

Or become one with the wall making it a haunted wall damaging everyone that passes through it. :D

JC DarkOmen2 votes

Maybe it would be thematic, but it would also be ridiculously overpowered, since it's so long it can go through 3 walls in some spots and follows champions that flash or dash over walls. And since when was Nocturn indistinct from Pantheon?

Rek'Sai's tunnels are supposed to be her digging, as in digging under the wall.

You could say going through walls would be interesting and additionally complex for any champ. "Could allow some interesting chasing and mobility through the map, but at a cost. His QGaren's Courage(w) a 20 second cooldown and if he uses it to escape he probably won't be able to chase people down increase his resistances or duel people, so it would be a pretty good "when do I choose to use this" kind of thing."

If he can use it to walk through walls it doesn't have to attach to monsters, he can just walk over there.

I'm not trying to be mean, but this is the sort of thing we all want to do for our favorite champs. I want Udyr's Turtle Stance to scale off max health instead of ap, and for his Bear Stance to go through walls. Both would fit thematically (Turtles don't use magic anyway, and bear stance is supposed to represent relentless force which is why it stuns) but it would be too broken. If Nocturne needs a buf, it's not a 'walk through walls' buff.

Edit: It'd be OP because you'd never be able to kill him in the jungle. You flashed over a wall to kill him? He walked through two more walls and you don't have any other way to get over there

Kingsgrave4 votes

[{quoted}](name=JC Da Beast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9JXeh9qe,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2015-02-04T22:04:13.428+0000)

Maybe it would be thematic, but it would also be ridiculously overpowered, since it's so long it can go through 3 walls in some spots and follows champions that flash or dash over walls. And since when was Nocturn indistinct from Pantheon?

Rek'Sai's tunnels are supposed to be her digging, as in digging under the wall.

You could say going through walls would be interesting and additionally complex for any champ. "Could allow some interesting chasing and mobility through the map, but at a cost. His QGaren's Courage(w) a 20 second cooldown and if he uses it to escape he probably won't be able to chase people down increase his resistances or duel people, so it would be a pretty good "when do I choose to use this" kind of thing."

If he can use it to walk through walls it doesn't have to attach to monsters, he can just walk over there.

I'm not trying to be mean, but this is the sort of thing we all want to do for our favorite champs. I want Udyr's Turtle Stance to scale off max health instead of ap, and for his Bear Stance to go through walls. Both would fit thematically (Turtles don't use magic anyway, and bear stance is supposed to represent relentless force which is why it stuns) but it would be too broken. If Nocturne needs a buf, it's not a 'walk through walls' buff.

Honestly right now he doesn't really bring anything to the team that Vi or Pantheon don't already bring. This change would actually give him some interesting gameplay for once.

Also I really doubt this would make him Overpowered. Would make him strong yes, but he hasn't been strong in a long time.

JC DarkOmen1 votes

What in the hell are you talking about? Vi and Pantheon? They're not even similar to each other, let alone Nocturne. Let's say it like this: His q is Vayne's passive, his e is LeBlanc's w and Fiddle's q, his w is Sivir's e, his ult is like a reverse Twisted Fate's, his playstyle is like Yi or Rengar. Where do you see Pantheon or Vi? If anyone I'd say he's too close to Fiddlesticks because of the fear thing

And I guess OP is the wrong word, I meant frustrating. Have you ever watched a good Leblanc juke an entire team by Distorting and ulting back and forth for 15 seconds straight? Have you ever seen a bad LeBlanc juke an entire team by hopping over two walls? Have you ever used flash to escape from/engage on LeBlanc and have it not work because she Distorts towards/away from you? Zero skill, tons of utility. No one wants that except Nocturne players.

Kingsgrave3 votes

[{quoted}](name=JC Da Beast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9JXeh9qe,comment-id=001b00000000,timestamp=2015-02-04T23:11:42.610+0000)

What in the hell are you talking about? Vi and Pantheon? They're not even similar to each other, let alone Nocturne. Let's say it like this: His q is Vayne's passive, his e is LeBlanc's w and Fiddle's q, his w is Sivir's e, his ult is like a reverse Twisted Fate's, his playstyle is like Yi or Rengar. Where do you see Pantheon or Vi? If anyone I'd say he's too close to Fiddlesticks because of the fear thing

And I guess OP is the wrong word, I meant frustrating. Have you ever watched a good Leblanc juke an entire team by Distorting and ulting back and forth for 15 seconds straight? Have you ever seen a bad LeBlanc juke an entire team by hopping over two walls? Have you ever used flash to escape from/engage on LeBlanc and have it not work because she Distorts towards/away from you? Zero skill, tons of utility. No one wants that except Nocturne players.

Vi and Pantheon are picked for the exact same reasons Nocturne is or isnt. Yes their kits are literally different but that doesnt matter when picking a jungler usually. You just pick a certain character with a certain amount of tools. Lock down, objective control etc.,

Brenticus124 votes

The only thing that this would do is make his already subpar ganking a little better.

Have you really been as scared of a Nocturne gank? His fear takes way too long to proc.

qetzel1 votes

It is an interesting mechanic, and certainly worth a try. It fits Nocturne perfectly, thematically... but it isn't right for his kit. It would make him far too strong. A move like this on Nocturnes kit would mean that, for balance, he would have to be destroyed.

So yeah. On a new champion I lik the idea.

Kingsgrave2 votes

{quoted}

It is an interesting mechanic, and certainly worth a try. It fits Nocturne perfectly, thematically... but it isn't right for his kit. It would make him far too strong. A move like this on Nocturnes kit would mean that, for balance, he would have to be destroyed.

So yeah. On a new champion I lik the idea.

Why would Nocturne need to be destroyed for this to be on his kit?

He doesn't have nearly as much dueling potential as Rengar or Xin. He doesn't have nearly as much mobility or single target lockdown as Pantheon or Vi.

This change would actually make him a really interesting character. He couldn't just straight up flash a wall or blink over a wall like Lee or Jarvan can, he would still have to run through it.

qetzel2 votes

Well, for a start, mobility is incredibly powerful. Never underestimate the power mobility brings (see current Ahri). A buff as massive as this would need major tradeoffs elsewhere.

Furthermore, Nocturne already has a long range point and click gap closer on his kit, which is often followed by a fear. Adding this would be overkill.

Just because Nocturne isn't the best duelist, it does not mean that he isn't a good duelist. He is a very strong duesllist. Giving a great duelist this kind of chasing power seems unfair, particularly as he has a long ranged initiate (making positioning less effective when going against Nocturne).

I would also say that Rengar is more an assassin than a duelist, but this is sujective.

In closing, If a champion has some strengths that cannot be nerfed - they are "iconic" or cannot have numbers adjusted - the rest of the kit must be a lot weaker to compensate.

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