Making him crit on every auto
Have it scale directly with his fury and crit chance he buys
Give him more meaningful decisions with his fury beyond a large heal
Old Man Teeto31 votesAlso solves his problem of winning/losing a trade based on his first ~2 auto-attacks.
If he crits, he wins, if he doesn't he loses and neither side gets to feel skillful about it.
Ariel the Cruel11 votesRan into this yesterday.
Braum top, started wall. Did an extended lvl 1 trade. Between the 30% damage reduction, and the stun+damage from passive, I should win the extended trade. Even got him to almost dead while I was roughly half health. Then it happened. My wall goes down and he gets 2 simultaneous crits. I go from winning to dead Instantly. Even if it was 1 crit, I still would have won due to health differential; or at least broke even.
The rest of the lane, I'll give him. He played well. But he did not deserve that first kill. It was given to him by forces beyond either of our control.
thinking man5 votesThat would probably require buffing him since his kit isn't very good because of the sheer unfairness of his passive/ult. Changing either means that the rest of his kit, mainly his Q/E would need some sort of compensation.
[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GGXA8sGz,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-06-15T16:09:32.599+0000)
Ran into this yesterday.
Braum top, started wall. Did an extended lvl 1 trade. Between the 30% damage reduction, and the stun+damage from passive, I should win the extended trade. Even got him to almost dead while I was roughly half health. Then it happened. My wall goes down and he gets 2 simultaneous crits. I go from winning to dead Instantly. Even if it was 1 crit, I still would have won due to health differential; or at least broke even.
The rest of the lane, I'll give him. He played well. But he did not deserve that first kill. It was given to him by forces beyond either of our control.
Any Tryndamere main always fights at level two and they either win or lose lane from there. If they win, they dominate. If they lose, they just continue laning forever until they're impossible to duel. You have to play around the Fury bar since they're playing around it as well.
Ariel the Cruel3 votesI can play around a fury bar. And like I said, 1 crit wouldn't have been an issue. It's when he got 2 in a row right after my wall dropped. Playing around mechanics is managing my wall to counteract his gradually increasing crit chance. Skill is knowing how to back out if he crits at the wrong time. Reasonable number crunching is knowing that I wouldn't loose the trade even if he got a crit (Hopefully while my wall is up). I was killed by a 1-100 chance that neither of us were able to account for.
Again, I have no complaints about the rest of the match. I lost, I accept that, he played well. But RNJesus is the only reason he won that first trade. And that's the inherent problem with crit chance. And Tryndamere.
thinking man1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GGXA8sGz,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-15T19:23:24.212+0000)
I can play around a fury bar. And like I said, 1 crit wouldn't have been an issue. It's when he got 2 in a row right after my wall dropped. Playing around mechanics is managing my wall to counteract his gradually increasing crit chance. Skill is knowing how to back out if he crits at the wrong time. Reasonable number crunching is knowing that I wouldn't loose the trade even if he got a crit (Hopefully while my wall is up). I was killed by a 1-100 chance that neither of us were able to account for.
Again, I have no complaints about the rest of the match. I lost, I accept that, he played well. But RNJesus is the only reason he won that first trade. And that's the inherent problem with crit chance. And Tryndamere.
12% chance with a full Fury bar to get two crits in a row.
How low exactly was his Fury bar? The chance him critting you twice with a small Fury bar is absurdly low, yes. It's also continuing to fight after the wall dropped but it might've been close enough that you would've won if he got no crits or even just one crit.
Ariel the Cruel1 votesI was assuming he would get at least 1 crit (seems like they always do). And even if it came at the wrong time, I still could have backed out and survived making it an even trade. If I always assume 2 in a row, it makes trading with him impossible. At which point, Quinn and Cait become they only way to match him in lane.
And you also have to remember, in an extended trade, Braum gets about 2 extra attacks thanks to his stun passive. He also does an extra 50 magic damage with each AA after the stun.
thinking man1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GGXA8sGz,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-15T20:02:05.630+0000)
I was assuming he would get at least 1 crit (seems like they always do). And even if it came at the wrong time, I still could have backed out and survived making it an even trade. If I always assume 2 in a row, it makes trading with him impossible. At which point, Quinn and Cait become they only way to match him in lane.
And you also have to remember, in an extended trade, Braum gets about 2 extra attacks thanks to his stun passive. He also does an extra 50 magic damage with each AA after the stun.
50 magic damage for each auto after the stun? That sounds incorrect. That's practically like critting on every hit, so I'm guessing it's not that high early.
Ariel the Cruel2 votes{Checks Wiki} 40 damage on stun. 8 per AA. That's still a good chunk at level one.
Arveanor10 votesI mean this in the friendliest, most helpful way possible.
But that's not what simultaneous means, unless he was swinging two gigantic swords at once.
Ariel the Cruel9 votesMeant consecutive. my bad. Point still remains.
Arveanor1 votesPoint still remains.
Very much so, just couldn't help myself :p
IFeedAsKat1 votesbraum fights mountains, dont mess with braum #braumforpresident
Anidan1 votesBut Odin did say he'd get rid of those pesky Ice Giants, and I haven't been seeing many of those lately.. I dunno, my vote is still on that bearded dude with an eyepatch and badass spear.
IFeedAsKat1 votescant go wrong with a handle bar mustache and a door though
ArkenStorm2 votesTrynd with double swords too stronk
NinjaToad991 votesWell he did start 
.
Arveanor1 votesI just fail to see why he'd want that dinky little knife when he's got such an epic sword.
NinjaToad992 votesWell his right arm is a lot stronger then his left. So much so that his left just has to hang there, useless. So may as well stab them when they get close. Do something with that wimpy arm.
Asdeft1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GGXA8sGz,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-06-15T16:09:32.599+0000)
Braum top, started wall.
wat
Aria Valkyrie2 votesBraum is actually a pretty good toplaner. Starting wall helps keep out early pokes, and provides a speed boost in the case of Ganks.
MasterVidallis14 votesYes, I think tryn should get the same crit style as ashe, and his crits damage just goes up as he gets fury. He is probably the most auto attack dependent champion in the game, so having him be so rng on crits means his entire damage is very rng. Most adcs at least have some damage abilities to mitigate that. Trynd has one dmg ability he most of the time just uses to get around. If there is one champion that should have his crits standardized it should be tryn.
It would greatly increase his viability while making him more fun to play and to play against. RNG of this level is not fun for the person playing him when they get a string of no crits and no fun for the person you're playing against when you do. I like tryn and find him fun to play but I don't precisely because his extremely reliance on RNG makes him SO risky in lane.
Lost In Time6 votesAnd gut his ultimate.
I Main Swain7 votesyou're on the wrong thread bro. "mindless qq" is somewhere else
Lost In Time1 votes[{quoted}](name=I Main Swain,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GGXA8sGz,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-06-15T15:27:17.143+0000)
you're on the wrong thread bro. "mindless qq" is somewhere else
Yes, mindless QQ.
Nevermind the fact Platnium Tryn mains auto win games because you can't do shit from him murdering your towers, inhib and nexus.
"Just send 2-3 people to stop him" while the remaining 4 members storm another lane.
Joy.
Anidan4 votesHe auto-wins games? That's a very, very far cry from his average win rate of about 52%. H
You're not the only guy from OCE having troubles with Trynd apparently. Is OCE having some huge problem with Trynd that the rest of League isn't having?
Kingsgrave15 votesAnd gut his ultimate.
His ultimate has a ridiculous amount of counterplay
Get out of here with your mindless QQ
TheRakkun1 votes[deleted]
Resiakedrøm10 votesChange it for one day and watch his winrate drop 30%
TheRakkun1 votes[deleted]
MadDoughnutz6 votesTrynd's ult doesn't break CC, it's just castable during it. That's Alistar's ult that breaks CC effects.
And if he does make a mistake, there are consequences: He loses his ult, because he blew it to survive or get away and not for getting a kill or taking a tower.
Stampredonyou1 votesthe number of times ive played against a tryndamere, and the fact that he can become unkillable while stunned (only champ who can, name me ANYONE else) basically like casting a 5 second zhonyas while using fids ult would be the equivalent. except he can also just run away instead. like "oh hey, cass ulted me, im about to die and im fully stunned. oh wait. r = kill cass and spin away" or "oh, i ran into viegars wall and hes pretty fed. i know. r = kill viegar and spin away" or "leona ulted me. oh shit. vayne is here too. i know. r = kill both and heal then spin away." never mind that you are STUNNED. or SUPPRESSED. im mean you cant even cleanse a damn suppression. but trynd? "malzahar just ulted me im going to di.... r = kill malz, spin away". nevermind he has a pretty low cd on that bs ult that he can cast whenever he feels like it.
MadDoughnutz3 votesExcept Trynd still takes damage during that ult, so that when it ends if he gets sneezed on he dies. So it's not like a Zhonya's. And last time I checked, Tryndamere's auto's don't cleave with the radius of dragon pit like a Fiddles ult would.
Tryndamere is a supreme duelist. All of Trynd's damage output besides his spin is single target(Barring Hydra, but good Trynd's usually prefer stattik shiv and Botrk to that) and locked into his autos. So, no surprise when he kills a burst mage like Syndra, Veigar, or Cass. If he wasn't able to do that, then he'd be rather useless besides splitpushing(And even that is successful thanks to him being able to 1v1 very easily.) Point is: Don't try and duel a dueling champion as a mage. Would you try and kill a Jax as Veigar? A Nasus as Syndra? An Olaf or Riven as Cass? Unless you're really mechanically skilled and equally fed if not more so, you lose all those fights. Same with Trynd.
Sorry, but Leona and Vayne dying to a Tryndamere alone? Either both were low health, or the Vayne was very underfed or bad. They both have loads of kiting and CC to lock down a Tryndamere from 100-0, and even more after he pops his ult. Hell, even Vayne alone can destroy a Trynd if she's good enough.
You speak like Tryndamere is some unkillable god and has his ult whenever he needs it. Sorry if this goes against what you believe, but that simply isn't true. Trynd's a great 1v1'er. As soon as that turns into a 2v1 with any opponents with CC and equal gold, he dies or runs away with his tail tucked between his legs.
If you nerf or take Tryndamere's ult away, you ruin what is basically Tryndamere. Trynd has his clear strengths and appropriate counterplay. Don't get mad if you refuse to see and use them.
ArkenStorm1 votesabout hydra, I agree with you. I think the optimal build for trynd is to rush bork then get these items in whatever order you need, zerk greaves, IE, statik shiv, bloodthirster, and LW/BC(new BC with furor boots is awesome on trynd.). I don't think hydra is ever necessary.
MadDoughnutz1 votesBotrk, then Shiv and boots into Youmuu's. Shiv comes before Youmuu's because you take advantage of the early base magic damage. You want to invest heavily into anti-kite items and movement speed items early. IE is nice and you hit like a truck with it, but what's the point of hitting that hard if you never hit anything due to being kited? Same with Last Whispers, Bloodthirstir, etc. Trynd would like them, but he'll have to choose based on what the situation is. BC is meh on him imo because he doesn't stack it up fast enough with just auto's and he doesn't really care for the CDR. And if he's facing a tank, Last Whisper is more appealing.
Kingsgrave1 votesBotrk, then Shiv and boots into Youmuu's. Shiv comes before Youmuu's because you take advantage of the early base magic damage. You want to invest heavily into anti-kite items and movement speed items early. IE is nice and you hit like a truck with it, but what's the point of hitting that hard if you never hit anything due to being kited? Same with Last Whispers, Bloodthirstir, etc. Trynd would like them, but he'll have to choose based on what the situation is. BC is meh on him imo because he doesn't stack it up fast enough with just auto's and he doesn't really care for the CDR. And if he's facing a tank, Last Whisper is more appealing.
I usually get Ravenous/Botrk/Shiv. Almost never buy Youmuu's. Nobody can really escape me anyway so I don't need the MS on the active and the AS isn't that big of an increase. Flat Armor Pen isn't very useful late anyway in comparison to LW.
Most of this is just personal preference tho. Ravenous allows me to heal so fucking quickly just by hitting 4-5 minions or doing 1 Camp. It allows me to be a constant nuisance in split pushing.
MadDoughnutz1 votesMost of this is just personal preference tho. Ravenous allows me to heal so fucking quickly just by hitting 4-5 minions or doing 1 Camp. It allows me to be a constant nuisance in split pushing.
Pretty much. Ravenous IS good on Trynd, but so are a lot of items. You could argue back and forth for days on what is better for Trynd but in the end it's down to personal taste and tailored to what you need in a match because he benefits from all of them. I personally take Youmuu's because I enjoy the increased dueling power it gives over Hydra and the combination of AD, Crit, Armor pen and an active that helps take down towers or for chasing/escaping/killing enemies.
KING ATTILA1 voteslmao as a good Tryn main, Hydra is ridiculously strong on tryndamere.
Kingsgrave11 votesI don't know, given the fact he can cast it while CCed.
It lasts 5 seconds and he can be ignited and CC'd after he casts it
canpan144 votesI think it would be cool if the fury played a bigger role. But I think the kit would need a bigger rework to do your suggested changes because it would make him very boring if you took out the RNG. Just because there would be 0% surprise on his damage or anything. Which of course you could argue is better for game clarity (or something like that).
Entheos Geon7 votesHis kit is already boring. :P
canpan146 votesHis kit is a little boring haha but he is fun to play. I just think this would make it even more boring.
Maple Crusader5 votesI think it would be cool if the fury played a bigger role. But I think the kit would need a bigger rework to do your suggested changes because it would make him very boring if you took out the RNG. Just because there would be 0% surprise on his damage or anything. Which of course you could argue is better for game clarity (or something like that).
The RNG makes Trynd needlessly difficult to play as and to play against.
canpan1441 votesI wouldn't say difficult, I would more say frustrating.
TahmKench Expert3 votesI'm not going to disagree, but this is something you can plan for. Although there is an innate factor of the RNG just playing the game for you at some point, it isn't totally exempt from being able to be used tactically.
You know, though, at least we'll never see RNG here like it is in World of Tanks where skill is replaced with a 1/20 one hit kill chance, a 5/20 regular damage chance, and a 14/20 no damage chance. That is true rage.
LeeDark3 votesIt doesn't actually change anything in Tryn's case. You can already plan for it. If he has a full fury bar, you'd be a moron to fight him. That's really all there is to it. You have to get him to blow his heal, THEN you can go in on him more fully.
For Ashe, this change worked because it gave her a much needed damage steroid (she gets 10% more damage on top of the crit scaling on attacks against targets affected by Frost Shot, along with the short term Q boost) without sacrificing her utility. For Tryn, the same isn't really true. He already has not only a steroid, but a serious AD debuff. Simply smoothing out his damage doesn't change his pattern. He'd want to get full fury and make an extended trade; you either fight him at reduced AD or run and get slowed.
Yes, a lucky string of crits is going to be just as frustrating for his opponent as an unlucky lack of crits is for him. And I would even agree that Crit in general, and especially on Tryn, is a problem for the game. That doesn't mean the answer is to give him the Frost Shot treatment in some slightly different form.
Sire Hippington3 votesOr fix the RNG nature of crit in general by giving crit overall the Ashe-treatment...
anyway, his E would need some change then, as it gets reduced cd for every crit he makes, which in return means more furry or crit from other sources->less cd on E If he crits every AA, that interaction become with passive and crit as a stat becomes void...
AIIan9 votesUnfortunately, you cannot give everyone the same medicine and expect it to work. Ashe crit rework is heavily reliant on her unique passive. That means you have to rework every marksmen this way while maintaining their identity. Lots of work.
Silents4292 votesApart from crit relying champions we wouldn't have to do anything but just make crit itself work like her passive.
Always on, but 110% damage or whatever it is.
Sire Hippington3 votesnot really, all her passive in conjunktion with that crit system does is saying you either open with W or R, or your first AA deals a bit less damage... They could aswell have changed crit independend from her passive and just have 10% increased damage vs slowed targets left on it.
The prettymuch only champs that need a bit work with that change are GP and Tryn. GP cause his playstyle mostly resolves around hoping for a crit with Q and opportunistically go all in if the Q crit bursts the target lowenough, and Tryn cause of the interaction between E and Crit.
ArkenStorm1 votesImagine if that happened, how OP 
would be. you really want more %increases on his damage?