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Riot Cactopus just confirmed we are no longer getting IP(BE) After games. How do you feel?

Skorch··93 votes·13,794 views

"You mentioned in the headline something about "30 chests," but we said we aren't going to do that because the new chests system is just a replacement for the IP you get after games now"

Personally I hate it. Its not like a case openning simulator game. Where you play 15-20 games to get 1 little thing before continuing.

IP/BE is very important. And the games i hate the most are the ones where you have to play double digit games to get ANYTHING out of it. A "Once per level" Reward being the ONLY reward (XP isnt a reward since that is just the gate used to feed your actual reward for playing) you get for playing is just an awful feeling.

I truely honestly hope that they reconsider this. Dont make us play 15 games to get ANYTHING out of playing your game.

1 game for 1/10th of a total is better than 10 games for 10/10ths of a total

I have played this game since season 4, and have defended Riot on many occasions before. But i might actually quit (or at least DRASTICALLY reduce) playing this game. Why? Because i hate games that give you almost nothing for playing. Like Dota, or CSGO. I want a reason to play your game, that doesnt require 1000+ hours to get the smallest of progress in playing. Sure league wont be as bad. But overall it will be much worse.

PLEASE reconsider this change.

EDIT: Ill say this. It entirely depends on how well pergame progress is. If its like 10 games per level, it wouldnt be so bad. 20 games well this kinda sucks. 50 games im done. I dont mind it as long as progress is still quick. However i cant help but feel like were being CSGOd

157 Comments

RiotRiot Cactopus51 votes

I'm seeing a bunch of confusion in this thread (like the one guy somehow getting upvoted for asking whether you'll now just be forced to spend RP to unlock champs).

If you want to understand how the new system works, Joe breaks it down pretty clearly here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq2i6RDmbNc

We are NOT making it harder for you to unlock champs. Unlocking champs is getting way faster for everyone with preseason with runes becoming free, and then we're also tuning leveling speeds specifically so that leveling gets you champs as fast or a little faster than the old IP-after-every-game system.

The only people who'll unlock champs a little more slowly compared to how they would in the IP system are super highly-leveled people who play tons of games per day—and even that change is mostly because we're turning the First Win of the Day bonus into a big pile of bonus XP.

ZER0 226 votes

I think people are afraid of it turning into something like Overwatch, you have to grind stupidly to get lootboxes, you FINALLY get a lootbox, and it has nothing but horrible things inside. It completely becomes a grind to get the chests for BE/Champs for higher level players, or a grind to get an "exclusive cosmetic unlock-able". Those kind of games are not fun. With the current system, you don't even notice you're continuously getting IP until one day you check and go "oh wow!! I have a lot more than I thought!" (which is a good feeling) The only time IP felt like a grind for me was when I was a new player, and it should feel like that for new players, because ofc they don't have anything yet. I feel like the implementing the chests per level BEFORE level 30 is a good thing, not so good for AFTER level 30.

RiotRiot Cactopus48 votes

Its different from Overwatch's system though, because the loot can be converted into currency. The problem with Overwatch loot is that if you get something you don't like, you're stuck with it. That's why we merged IP and BE. Sure, you might get a champ shard you don't like, but just convert that into BE and use it on something you do actually want. Conversely, sometimes you'll get a shard for the exact champ you've been wanting, and it'll give you a nice discount on that champ.

I think a lot of these fears will be relieved once y'all get your hands on the system.

Melledoneus21 votes

"Omg Rito Cacto-sama talked about Overwatch, now they will add Genji to the game and make every other voice line 'I need healing' time to start hype-posting!"

TimX24968B8 votes

they already added genji to the game... MasterYi

Melledoneus3 votes

Don't tell me THAT'S why I got a downvote...

Frontline Fury15 votes

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/styles/scale_xlarge/public/upload/project_yasuo_splash.jpg?itok=6uWnwCXc

I need healing!

http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws.com/images/news/January_2013/Aether_Wing_Kayle_Release/Kayle_AetherWing_Splash.jpg

Bitch do i look like a heale-- item 3504 item 3107 summoner 7

..heroes never die! sigh

Salson2 votes

That's why we merged IP and BE. Sure, you might get a champ shard you don't like, but just convert that into BE and use it on something you do actually want.

The thing is, there is no 'like' and 'dislike' here. Shards have prices attached to them, some are simply better than others.

For instance I can get 2 6300 champs in a month. Where is the guarantee that I won't get Garen, Ashe, Nunu and Warwick shards for a month of effort?

Lux Is Mai Waifu3 votes

It's not a truly random system, in their post they said they have "bad luck" streak protection measures in place.

Velzard of Koz3 votes

I believe they were speaking about getting champ shards from Grade Chests. Salson is talking about Progress Chests, which are guaranteed to drop champ shards, giving worthy champ shards. If you get Ashe shard and Kled shard, they are reward for the same grinding, but, even If disenchanted, one gives little BE while the other gives more. That part is RNG.

Purple Nim2 votes

Honestly, you should do an AMA session on the new proggression.

Daddy Tie Me Up2 votes

But is there EXP cap for level up or is it literally harder to get level up to the infinity? Because if that is so, then congratulations you fucked up big time.

Kaìju2 votes

I play the shit out of Mercy. I love the Swiss Doctor because she feels rewarding to play for me. Like I get to take a break from playing ADC every game and get to just hold left click to be useful. But holy shit, she now has three limited time legendary skins and I haven't gotten a single fucking one. The only skin I use on her is her first summer games one that I got the day I started playing last year. The fact that I have to grind and grind and grind and grind crushes me to the point where I barely play unless one of her skins is out for an event. The game is fun, but it ruins me. Also I have summer games Widow and Christmas highlight intro so that's my excuse for that fiesta of a POTG.

Skorch4 votes

I thank you for coming and covering up some of the confusion i personally had, and apologize for some of the... drastically pessimistic... people that was attracted to this post.

However I feel like a lot of confusing was spawned from lack of specifics (which you may or may not have had at time of making the video) As all we have to go off is the system we currently have. And actual changes werent too specific. For instance we heard we were getting a chest per level, but no talk of XP change was mentioned in the video (at least from what i remember) So for those of us who havent leveled a smurf and dont really know how drastic the XP changes were, were giving us a bit of worry considering we have no idea exactly how much XP we will need for a level.

I also personally ask if you have any idea on the sense of progression we feel with the new system. As stated in my post, one of my biggest factors in games i play is a sense of progression with EVERYTHING you do. The tick of IP you get after a game for example (while small) Is still very satisfying to get. And while the outcome doesnt change, the feeling itself does. Someone pointed out its Step by Step vs Linearity.

And a lot of people i have noticed felt the same way. Dark Souls for instance (one of my personal favorite franchises) rewards you with varying souls with every kill. In order for a game to hook me I need to feel like every little thing matters. And i have fully dropped games that fail this.

Knowing this: Has this been discussed while developing this system and what are your thoughts on the concern of this?

RiotRiot Cactopus26 votes

Hey man, thanks for responding. Seeing all this confusion is making me realize how important it is that we develop a REALLY fleshed out FAQ page for people before the preseason changes hit. We definitely don't want people to keep being confused as we get closer.

It'll be sort of hard to calculate the exact number of games it takes to climb a level (if you win, you get more XP, and if you get the first win of the day you get a LOT more XP) but we're balancing it so it never actually gets crazy punishing to climb, no matter how far you go in the system. There's actually a cap on the system so it stops getting harder after a certain point.

Velzard of Koz3 votes

Seeing all this confusion is making me realize how important it is that we develop a REALLY fleshed out FAQ page for people before the preseason changes hit.

Speaking of which, when shall such page appear? From the video (which mentoined that, If I remember correctly, new runes will be next PBE patch) I felt like preseason is very soon to come and I believe such page should be up before PBE of the changes. Or was I mistaken (due to runes coming sooner) and preseason is still far and the page (which you do with every preseason) will be up later?

My Waifu Vanilla2 votes

Preseason is in late November/early December-ish historically so the runes are probably hitting the PBE EARLY enough to let people figure out how stuff works and at least ATTEMPT to avoid another "League of Thunderlord's" fiasco again where 10 people are taking the same keystone every game almost. I would personally LIKE to see 2 separate game modes on PBE starting next cycle to test live stuff and preseason stuff so Riot can actually take time to adjust base stats without impacting "live" things until Preseason starts (rather than constantly reverting things at the end of every cycle). For example, the Evelynn (or Xin Zhao idr which) rework I believe is coming to PBE next cycle, but people technically won't get a good reading on it if it is also with the rune changes....but the rework is shipping 2+ months before the runes.

Cowseed1 votes

So does this mean I no longer have to play every day considering they'res not gonna be anymore first win of the day bonus?

And how much control do we get over obtaining new champs?

Skorch5 votes

Riot Cactopus stated in another comment that FWOTD is a big ol pile of XP now. Its still there.

Dezell3 votes

"The only people who'll unlock champs a little more slowly compared to how they would in the IP system are super highly-leveled people who play tons of games per day—and even that change is mostly because we're turning the First Win of the Day bonus into a big pile of bonus XP."

I'm bad at quoting because I suck at this system, sorry. But this is a little concerning for me.

As it is now, FWotD is a good reason for me to log on and play a game, then I stick around and play some more. FWotD bonus is a nice little bonus, but that's all it is. I only play two more games and I've already matched the bonus.

I'm concerned it could become a system where it actually feels BAD to play beyond FWotD because that's where all the rewards are. I have a lot of games competing for my attention, and League is the only one I play where I have the frustration of dealing with other people.

I'm not sure if I'm articulating this well, so here's my point: Can you assuage my fear that it will feel more like a chore than a bonus? IE, I want to get on League for that FWotD (and probably stick around after) vs I have to get on League for that FWotD, then I'll go play something else (because there's no incentive to continue playing)?

Ahristocats11 votes

so how does one get champions now?

only through chest and keys? or by being forced to spend RP?

hahahhahahahaha

ModWulf Helhammer3 votes

Leveling up gives a special box with BE, champion shards, and possible full champions

Ahristocats21 votes

and the more levels you get, the harder it is to get to an other level

sounds great to me, especially when i need to wait 3 lvls to get 1 champion as champion shards can be on champions you already own

Skorch18 votes

For once i agree with the cynical being that is Rubick.

Velzard of Koz3 votes

It's weird feeling, isn't it.

Spank the Fox10 votes

Not true.

Overwatch levelling system is the same flat exp per level after ~10 levels. You get a chest every 3-4 competitive games or roughly 5-6 QP/RGM game, regardless if you're level 25 or 2500.

Depends how it's implimented, but it would be stupid to have exp grow incrementally for infinity

TzQGRUST392 votes

It has a soft reset like Overwatch. The amount needed to lvl up doesn't scale exponentially.

nice table1 votes

didn't they also mention a level cap? once you hit the cap (i'm assuming you won't have everything unlocked by then) the only way to buy champions is RP? i guess rito is basically going p2p

Sad Tyrant4 votes

no, they did not mention a leveling cap, they mention an XP cap. where you keep leveling and the xp needed keeps increasing, eventually the XP needed stops rising

Shuyin1788 votes

I better spam matches before this system takes place, that way I can get my 10 remaining champions before I get fucked over by lack if IP/BE.

Salson7 votes

Agreed, the change is garbage.

This feels more like someones lame attempt to be 'Innovative', than anything else. Like that guy who made S7 Jungle, did they fire him yet?

Miror B4 votes

I'm more confused as to how the new system is going to function with runes getting removed and character unlocks being the only other reason to use BE. Unless I'm missing something, it seems as though they're combining two things into one and sorta making that "one" useless for 95% of the playerbase.

ForFoxSakes4 votes

We dont really know how much exp is required to level up yet so I wouldnt freak out yet. If it's just at the same rate as champ mastery then it's not a big deal since it can be like 3-4 wins for a level up but slower when we lose

Also dont know how much we get for shard DEs yet either but going to be more than now. Should be at least something like 2100 per DE though so 3 shards can get a 6300 champ (since 3 shard reroll is going away) and BE will be needed to activate shards as well

Skorch6 votes

I am going off the assumption that 1 level is going to either equal or be larger than 29-30 is right now. Which even reduced is still like 20 games (probably more.) a lot more than 3-4 (plus losses)

Meaning needing 3 levels (since im fairly certain champ shards arent guarenteed) for a chance of a 6300, being a 60 game affair (which is around/less what it takes now, -FWTD which we dont know how its gonna work) kinda feels bad.

The main issue i have with this is the sense of progression (my favorite part of any game) is going to feel much worse now. Instead of "Okay i played 10 games and made 800IP, ill take it, only x more until next champ." its "Okay i played 10 games and got half a level, hope next level crate is good" And that just feels so much worse to me.

Sraeg20134 votes

"You are entitled." ~ Riot Cactopus on criticism

I feel they are a dick about the whole issue.

RiotRiot Cactopus54 votes

{quoted}

"You are entitled." ~ Riot Cactopus on criticism

I feel they are a dick about the whole issue.

It's not cool to just invent fake quotes so you can make your point.

TheWoollyMammoth20 votes

Man, either you drew the short straw and Meddler is standing behind you with a club, or you have the patience of a saint.....

RiotRiot Cactopus35 votes

I actually like talking to you guys. You call us out on our bullshit, and we can make our case and have everybody judge us fairly for it. I just want everyone to be civil about it lol

I Am Ravi17 votes

So a saint then.

TheWoollyMammoth3 votes

^

RiotRiot Cactopus27 votes

I say "fuck" a lot tho so idk man i think the pope might not approve my application

Trashkuun7 votes

The current pope, I think he'd let you slide. Probably said "fuck" a few times himself. [slayer-jinx-wink]

Velzard of Koz3 votes

And pope even knows how to say fuck in many laguages.

Snake Prince1 votes

so how ur league account is permabanned yet , for saying fuckk in game you trigger the system so easily .

SSJTribe4 votes

Nice meme, but cursing isn't actually against the rules. Cursing at someone on the other hand...

Chromatic Eagle4 votes

We don't like talking to us lol

ActivatingEMP4 votes

I hate this idea, i liked the consistency of it because i knew if i wanted a 6300 champion it would take me 2 weeks tops- under this new system it could be anywhere from a few days to a few months.

Leetri2 votes

It should be as fast or even faster to earn champions according to Riot. The only time it might take a little longer is if you're super high levelled, but the required XP per level does have a cap so it's not an infinitely exponential curve. And if you are that super high levelled you already have all champions.

Titanium703 votes

Well.. interesting I'd say and kinda unasked for.. but hey.. as long as they keep the avarge IP/game including First Win... (or just slightly lower it since free runes).

Nothing changes.

Because there is no difference between saving IP for a day of playing or playing for a day and than get all the IP at once from a logical standpoint.

And judging on the fact this is released my huge company with a large amount of advisers and researchers around I could guess the Step by Step reward is more motivating than the lineary progress for the avarge player.

But w/e.. I dont care either way.

afmghost3 votes

How do I feel?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFr_zlBBa_k

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