Believe it or not but I actually think Riots making an active effort to improve the game.

Skorch·Feb 12, 2018·92 votes·3,977 views

Ok, Hear me out, I just said something outlandish and impossible I know.

In 2 patches we are going to have updates to Support, Jungle, And AP items. These changes typically you would never see outside a preseason or midseason. So I think Riot acknowledges something is wrong.

So listen, is it possible that they are updating more items. Will there be a tank/bruiser, and even ADC UPDATE NEXT?

Now this is all speculation but it wouldnt surprise me. Who knows maybe they hit PBE the second they are confident in the changes and the 2 currently most debated are having the longest time being changed.

It would make sense why there has been so little changes with 2 of the most heated topics on here.

Again this is all speculation, but I would not be surprised at all if in the next 2 patches we saw more item updates.

142 Comments

AnateraFeb 12, 201843 votes

I don't think whether or not they're trying is the issue. It's whether or not what they're doing is even right at all that's the problem.

Tomoe GozenFeb 12, 201814 votes

And what the boards say is the absolute right thing to do about balancing League? Please don't start this discussion again.

Chigara AshadaFeb 12, 20182 votes

He's not saying that the boards has the answer either. It's just he thinks balance isn't being handled well, and plus the boards would have more time on the majority of champions in comparison to Rioters so it's more likely they would understand the intricacies of a champion which may be overlooked. That's not to say they are right all the time or even a majority of the time, it's more just a concern.

notice me Sin piFeb 12, 20182 votes

if upvote to downvote ratio is 40 or higher, then i think it's safe to say the post is correct.

EDIT: how in the world does no one know what ratio means? Ratio, as in number of upvotes DIVIDED BY number of downvotes. NOT SUBTRACTION

Tin of sardinesFeb 12, 20186 votes

i think is not... just because more people think that katanas are op, does make it op. so, we need something that riot has: data.

notice me Sin piFeb 12, 20181 votes

if we don't have riot's data for a certain post, we arent getting upvote:downvote ratio of 40+ since the smarter 2.5% of the boards population would definitely downvote circlejerks with no real data. And more others would also downvote too.

Just to give an idea, most generic [omg nerf ahri already] circlejerks usually have about upvote:downvote ratio of 2 if checked with BEK. A generic [nerf adc] post has about 4~8 upvote:downvote ratio.

The only exception that I can think of was when rito decided to buff lethality and then follow up with tabi nerfs the next patch; op.gg data was more than sufficient enough for extreme cases like that, even without riot's data.

Tin of sardinesFeb 12, 20184 votes

I said katana op because there's people who think katanas are better that european swords. them I found this guy: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkmMACUKpQeIxN9D9ARli1Q no i don't know anymore, no only him said that, another youtuber... said that katanas aren't op too. so there's people how maybe wrong because of bad data and they think is right the true.

yes, we can get more things right that wrong. but that does not mean is complete safe. in fact the same guy who made me rethink sword and armour, say he may be complete wrong.

so... is more safe to assume that 40 more up vote that down votes means most of the board agrees with you, not that you are the voice of the true, but you can call yourself the voice of the common sense.

you said: "i think it's safe to say the post is correct" I think is "you should take as common sense, but not the real true" form what i know about english, you suggest to take with a grain of salt. so are we just disputing over something we agree because i didn't think you made clear the "with a grain of salt part"?

notice me Sin piFeb 13, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tin of sardines,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U1i24nKg,comment-id=000400000002000000010000,timestamp=2018-02-12T23:31:33.486+0000)

40 more up vote that down votes

multiplicative, not additive

you said: "i think it's safe to say the post is correct" I think is "you should take as common sense, but not the real true" form what i know about english, you suggest to take with a grain of salt. so are we just disputing over something we agree because i didn't think you made clear the "with a grain of salt part"?

dont understand what u r saying but all i can tell u is that LoL community is made of salt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KquFZYi6L0

Tin of sardinesFeb 13, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=notice me Sin pi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U1i24nKg,comment-id=0004000000020000000100000000,timestamp=2018-02-13T00:40:31.711+0000)

multiplicative, not additive

my bad.

dont understand what u r saying but all i can tell u is that LoL community is made of salt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KquFZYi6L0

"with grain of salt" is a expression, it means something like "take it as 98%, but remember the 2%, the 2%!"

AirKingNeoFeb 12, 20184 votes

No, but Riot could certainly listen to the smartest people on the boards and hold a discussion.

CrystalyskFeb 12, 201830 votes

They had the whole pre season to fix all the issues people have been complaining about, at least the big ones. I think they had enough time. The fact that the AP itemization changes are coming after this much time and nothing else besides this has been done makes me think they haven't really tried that hard. Just think about the Zhonya and Ryze's R interaction, why did it take so long to remove it when it shouldn't have been a thing to begin with?

Did they try to fix the game? Yes. Did they try hard to fix the game? Sorry but no. Over 3 months to fix issues yet they started the new season like everything was ok and only now somethkng is being done.

It's too late and even if now they are trying properly this won't erase the past 4 months where they did nothing to help the game.

Chromatic EagleFeb 12, 20189 votes

They felt Ryze and Zhonyas had tradeoffs, but stopwatch made that useless.

CrystalyskFeb 12, 201810 votes

Well, i'm sorry but such interaction should never be allowed to exist no matter the trade off it might have. And this comes from someone who doesn't even hate Ryze.

DracosKasuFeb 12, 20185 votes

Sure balancing over 100 champ in game is so easy right. You cant even see how much data it is in reality. When you fix something something else will take the spot that how it os because people keep looking to found the next broken thing in-game it was alway like this.

CrystalyskFeb 12, 20187 votes

I've never said it's easy to balance that amount of champions but let me say this: if you are ready to release 139 champions (140 soon) then you must be ready to make sure you can balance and make viable at least 80% of them. I would be fine if they sacrifice 30 champions to make 110 of them viable. Meanwhile it's the opposite, 30 are viable and 110 are so bad that you might get reported if you play them.

True, every time you fix something, something else shows up. But how about they start fixing those major issues people have been complaining about for months? Meanwhile they are busy overbuffing Nunu, how can they even think something like that.

Any other respectable company would never leave big issues untouched for months. Three months should be more than enough to fix something, especially those big issues people have been talking for months which should have major priority. They just take time over and over and it seems like they are not taking their job seriously to me.

chipndip1Feb 12, 20183 votes

{quoted}

They had the whole pre season to fix all the issues people have been complaining about, at least the big ones. I think they had enough time. The fact that the AP itemization changes are coming after this much time and nothing else besides this has been done makes me think they haven't really tried that hard. Just think about the Zhonya and Ryze's R interaction, why did it take so long to remove it when it shouldn't have been a thing to begin with?

Did they try to fix the game? Yes. Did they try hard to fix the game? Sorry but no. Over 3 months to fix issues yet they started the new season like everything was ok and only now somethkng is being done.

It's too late and even if now they are trying properly this won't erase the past 4 months where they did nothing to help the game.

Why are you including the Christmas break into that time frame, though? Also, some issues were resolved REALLY quickly, like the Relic Shield Returns meta.

CrystalyskFeb 12, 20182 votes

I don't know about Riot but in my company when a big issue shows up we are called to make sure it gets fixed ASAP even if we are on vacation. Now, i am not saying they don't deserve their vacation (especially for Christmas week) but maybe instead of focusing on fixing minor issues they could have worked on the bigger ones. Relic meta was fixed fast indeed, then why not fix other things fast too?

What i'm saying is that they pretty much did nothing for 3 months and now they are coming up with some solutions which won't justify them for not making a good job during the past 3 months. Then again, i wish i could do the same in my company and not get dismissed.

chipndip1Feb 12, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I don't know about Riot but in my company when a big issue shows up we are called to make sure it gets fixed ASAP even if we are on vacation. Now, i am not saying they don't deserve their vacation (especially for Christmas week) but maybe instead of focusing on fixing minor issues they could have worked on the bigger ones. Relic meta was fixed fast indeed, then why not fix other things fast too?

What i'm saying is that they pretty much did nothing for 3 months and now they are coming up with some solutions which won't justify them for not making a good job during the past 3 months. Then again, i wish i could do the same in my company and not get dismissed.

I don't see how they did nothing for three months. They fixed up everyone taking Aery, and they fixed everyone taking Press the Attack.

Updating the entire rune system is a large project in and of itself, and a lot of it deals with letting the changes stew so you can accurately decide what needs to be changed to begin with. Knee jerk reactions are exactly what Riot was blamed for a few years ago, anyway.

CrystalyskFeb 12, 20182 votes

Those were minor adjustments, the problem here is that they are giving priority to minor issues over bigger ones. The only big issue they have fixed was the relic shield one. People have been complaining about snowball/one side games, nothing has been done. Maybe they want the game to be like this, but then they should at least say they don't want to change it. And this is one of the few bigger issues.

DisembarkFeb 13, 20182 votes

Or maybe because unlike the boards, Riot actually has to come up with concepts that ACTUALLY work instead of just “buffing/nerfing” numbers which do nothing to fix the problem.

Theorizing, playtesting, bug fixing plus the fact that there are TEAMS, not one developer doing things which takes MORE time.

Even smallish changes might take a week + they want to wait 2 weeks to get stats and meta adjusted before they make changes again.

CrystalyskFeb 13, 20182 votes

I think 3 months are enough for a professional team to at least mitigate an issue which has been overlook completely instead. I have never said it is easy to balance LoL nor boards have the solution but well... at least try something? They waste so much time on minor things.

ResolutionFeb 12, 201822 votes

God let's hope they're trying.

If they're not aware from the current boards* unhappiness I'd be amazed. The game needs it, I keep seeing my friends leaving for other games :/.

Mita3003Feb 12, 20189 votes

Why do people think that the boards are like 80% of the community beacuse its not, riot said it themself when they are balanceing the game they are not looking at what the people on the boards find unbalaced and work right on it. They have PBE they have live servers win rates what builds are the "op" champs useing.

zero356Feb 12, 20187 votes

No, but boards are a voice. This and redditt are really the only public spaces to discuss this stuff and have Riot see it. And these are the League forums; shouldn't they be getting feedback on their game from there own forums?

And let's be honest, PBE at this point is glorified bug-testing.

GayFluffyUnicornFeb 12, 20182 votes

Implying riot live undesign team "balances" the game. If so the whole game wouldnt rely solely on botlane and forcing every other role in steamrolling the enemy bot. There is no laning phase, there is no impact there is nothing but go bot and make your bot win and hope you have the better rightclicker. Tristana wouldnt run around with 40% pickrate being overpowered as all hell. They don't balance shit, they "design" only in a way THEY think league should be played opposed to the players deciding the meta and how league is to be played unless something is actually unhealthy or too gimmicky like old AP yi. That's why this current team must be replaced.

DragonSheaFeb 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Why do people think that the boards are like 80% of the community beacuse its not, riot said it themself when they are balanceing the game they are not looking at what the people on the boards find unbalaced and work right on it. They have PBE they have live servers win rates what builds are the "op" champs useing.

yeah well there are some people like I am Rubrik Sama, Malicious Metal, Ralgar(can't spell his name right :( ) Critmaster Garen, Bârd among others that actually have excellent insight to the game and can give good feedback on how to do improve the game and highlight issues as they are some of the most insightful people on the boards.

Mita3003Feb 14, 20182 votes

Its a shame that there are not more people like them beacuse the boards right now are so toxic that 70% of the threds are just rageing about the game.

AmazoXFeb 12, 201810 votes

#Same here I believe some AP champions are going to end up being Meta next patch and that will cause an uproar by the players.

next patch Singed is going to be a pain in the ass because of the new
Have they done anything about 220/270 AP mordekaiser one shotting everyone with the press of a button because of ?

I am also gonna play a ton of Vladimir/Swain next patch because of the AP itemization buffs which saddens me.

#Why does this sadden me you might be wondering?

I have 600K Mastery points varying on accounts on Zed, I also know that he is getting a buff next patch to balance him around the stop watch rune + the AP itemization buffs BUT his damage still won't be as EFFECTIVE as some AP champions next patch with the AP itemization buffs next patch.

Zed will never have Effective damage because the moment Lethality is good on Assassins, it will be broken on ADCs (AD Caster Marksmen), so AD Assassins itemization is being held down just because of ADCs, not that Riot Games ever stated this but it's obvious and has been like this ever since the Marksmen Class Update.

Which completely sucks because MY favorite character's effective damage is being held down just because of another class AD Caster type of marksmen being able to potentially abuse it.

GayFluffyUnicornFeb 12, 20185 votes

Would be too much work for the current unbalance team to just slap melee/range components on items and stats. Could make the game actually balanced. But according to them the game is not interesting when marksmen don't oneshot everyone and their mother.

PeachyPosteriorFeb 12, 20187 votes

League has over 100 champions that needs to be balanced. Each with individual kits. New runes, items, passives, champions, etc will all affect these champs in some way. Sometimes the right thing to do is change some kits around, move some stats, etc. Sometimes the right thing is to change around the items or the runes a little.

But there's a lot of things to take into consideration, one of them being how to keep it fun and not outrageous in both high elo and low elo and overall have a positive impact on the game, but still have the champ be fun to play.

There is a lot to consider, and there is a lot that needs attention. They can only make a few adjustments each patch because those adjustments will have a chain reaction and have effects on the overall game. Get one thing under control and move to another.

We got AP items. We are getting reworks. Champions are getting looked at that have been heavily asked for on the boards, but also champs that need a few adjustments that the boards overlook. (because everyone is just a hivemind with tunnel vision over here it seems). Runes are getting looked at.

I have faith in Riot. Balancing isn't easy, and there is always going to be a meta and someone is always going to complain until there is a new meta. Rinse and repeat.

But utimitly if we want our voices heard and for Riot to pay attention to changes we would like to see, we as a community have to be able to be clear and mature about it. "OMG NERF TWICH HE SUXXXX" is not helpful feedback in the slightest.

Daddy Tie Me UpFeb 12, 20185 votes

After whole season of Twitch having 54% win rate, gettin solo pentakills in under 2 seconds, and nothing being done about it, "OMG NERF TWICH HE SUXXXX" is the only way. Whole season twitch was ignored, whole season twitch did what leblanc did before they removed her and yet, they did nothing.

Mita3003Feb 12, 20182 votes

No its not the only way. Maybe just maybe people at riot dont want to read a 4 page post about how bad are they at balanceing the game. In the begining of the pre season one guy made a post about the problems he had with the game and gave them his opinion on how to fix it and you know what happend, a rioter responded and said thank you for the feedback i will foward this post to the team. That us progress not OMG THIS IS RETARED FIX IT RITO

Daddy Tie Me UpFeb 12, 20183 votes

After whole season of creative, constructive feed back on Twtiches state, together with multiple great ideas to fix him, nothing happened at all.

SangreDeNocheFeb 12, 20186 votes

Yeah as others have said, you're just not thinking about this properly... if at all. The new runes started LAST YEAR without one of the most prominent champ classes missing a rune to call their own. That's not "trying." They said they would have one up soon, but it's been 4 months. Remember the last time they told us something (solo queue) would be up soon while they constantly pushed the date back one month at a time? They waited 6 months before admitting they never intended to add it back at all. Then it took even longer for them to finally get off their asses and put things back after they broke it and tried to force their preferred ranked queue on everyone. The mage "update" does the opposite of what riot themselves admitted mages needed (more item choices) by turning a bunch of items into magic pen stat sticks. Wow such "work" and "thought" must've gone into that one. Riot says a lot of things then goes and does the opposite. If you read their posts they usually give really good ideas for what needs to be done then explain their implementation which goes in the opposite direction. It's like if Riot wanted to warm their coffee because it got too cold they'd put it in the freezer because...??????

Cryo00Feb 12, 20185 votes

Okay, I don't think ADCs need new toys, they have one of the best itemization options in the game with supports.

Jinx HunterFeb 12, 20185 votes

A shit effort, is still a shit effort.

Madsin25Feb 12, 20184 votes

They are about to give mages the ADC treatment.

I fail to see how this is the right direction.

ChaddyFantomeFeb 13, 20183 votes

{quoted}

They are about to give mages the ADC treatment.

I fail to see how this is the right direction.

Finally, someone is opening there eyes. Feels so good to not feel alone.

FilDaFunkFeb 12, 20183 votes

I bet they're going to bring itemization of other roles on par with ADC.

That's gonna be so great for the game(!)

Yordle XayahFeb 12, 20183 votes

Isn't there a phrase that goes something like...

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"?

ElkingtonFeb 13, 20183 votes

Effort alone doesn't amount to much since Riot is a business, and results are all that matter once lots of money becomes involved. Riot removed Dominion so they could focus on and improve Summoner's Rift (as well as the game as a whole), and it doesn't look like much has really improved since then.

ISLAMICWARRIOR99Feb 13, 20183 votes

Believe it or not, the 10 angry people spamming the boards about adc aren't representative of most of the community.

RendrexFeb 13, 20183 votes

Everyone playing knows that Tristana along with crit are busted. I'm aware there's a lot of shit needing fix but it doesn't change the fact adc's needs tuning.

BlakiepugFeb 12, 20182 votes

Maybe this is true, but I don't think they are improving the game in a way that I enjoy. I know I'm in the minority here, but as a support main who loved Face of the Mountain and never bought wards I absolutely despise the support item changes. Not only this but I feel like runes have too big of an impact as well. Now instead of getting frustrated at champion kits, I am instead thinking about how much I hate the runes. Now everyone is a speedster, everyone heals like crazy, everyone has an hourglass active, etc. There's very little differentiation between the champions to me with the addition of runes. I think the direction the game is headed in may just not be for me.

MalrothDragoniaFeb 12, 20187 votes

you lost me at 'support main never bought wards'

Iffy JarlFeb 13, 20182 votes

Theres this notion on the boards that the balance team is just sitting at riot shooting the breeze playing paper football and intentionally trying to ruin peoples fun, and at the end of the day when changes do get made all they get is "It's about time" "Finally" and people critisizing pbe shit even

General Esdeath Feb 13, 20183 votes

Well when players in EVERY elo and pro scene tell you something is too strong and it takes you 6 months to nerf it, don't expect praise.

Iffy JarlFeb 13, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Well when players in EVERY elo and pro scene tell you something is too strong and it takes you 6 months to nerf it, don't expect praise.

theres always something else that needs to be nerfed things get put on the back burner but when people complain about shit thats being tested on PBE it's like wtf are you even on about and when people neglect to read patch notes or complain about shit after it's been nerfed already, like the stream of ignorance is never ending, and again if you really think the balance team is doing nothing for 6 months because "LUL GOTEEM" then your're mistaken

General Esdeath Feb 13, 20182 votes

Who said they're not doing anything? And when some certain items item 3504 are the deciding factor in a match and in EVERY LCS game...I think it's a clear sign the balance team just has no idea what they're doing.

Blue Moon WolfFeb 13, 20182 votes

I'll believe it when they address Wukong instead of working on some champ that just suddenly got an issue but EVERYONE feels "needs a gameplay update" first >_>