Talon will get nerfed, but Zed not?

DropFill·Feb 28, 2016·8 votes·911 views

Wtf is going on riot.

20 Comments

DesideriumFeb 28, 20162 votes

Zed offers more counterplay than Talon, and Zed makes more sacrifices than Talon. For example, if Zed uses W to gapclose to ult you, he's sacrificing a 2nd shuriken and a slow JUST to get into range to ult you. Zed has meaningful tradeoffs within his kit and meaningful counterplay against him.

Talon's counterplay is to stay out of the range of his jump or he will oneshot you.

But I still don't agree with how they're nerfing him. His ult doesn't need to be touched because it does pretty low damage in the first half of the game ever since they nerfed its base values and ad scaling a year or two ago, when they fixed the bug on his E. So, nerfing the ultimate is not the way to go.

DropFillFeb 28, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Zed offers more counterplay than Talon, and Zed makes more sacrifices than Talon. For example, if Zed uses W to gapclose to ult you, he's sacrificing a 2nd shuriken and a slow JUST to get into range to ult you. Zed has meaningful tradeoffs within his kit and meaningful counterplay against him.

Talon's counterplay is to stay out of the range of his jump or he will oneshot you.

But I still don't agree with how they're nerfing him. His ult doesn't need to be touched because it does pretty low damage in the first half of the game ever since they nerfed its base values and ad scaling a year or two ago, when they fixed the bug on his E. So, nerfing the ultimate is not the way to go.

Zed offers more 100-0 counterplay. He has 0 lane interaction, can dive more easily, has better split push potential, and also can assassinate and goes to a safe spot. If talon goes all in, he has to kill in because he will probably die.

HauntFeb 28, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Zed offers more 100-0 counterplay. He has 0 lane interaction, can dive more easily, has better split push potential, and also can assassinate and goes to a safe spot. If talon goes all in, he has to kill in because he will probably die.

Talon's playstyle and the way he functions is much more unhealthy than Zed will ever be, stop having such a hateboner for Zed and open your eyes.

ChargeItDownMidFeb 28, 20162 votes

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HauntFeb 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If that is the case, then talon should be reworked. Buffs/nerfs should be based purely on how overpowered/underpowered a champion is. Zed is more overpowered and needs to take priority on nerfs between the two.

They said they want to rework him, and I agree that they have to. His kit can't exist without being too good or garbage.

ChargeItDownMidFeb 28, 20162 votes

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HauntFeb 28, 20162 votes

{quoted}

So now that talon is on the rework block, there is no reason why zed shouldn't be nerfed ahead of him when zed is more overpowered.

Not really, because as much as people won't admit it, Zed offers MUCH more counterpay when he's ahead compared to Talon.

DropFillFeb 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Not really, because as much as people won't admit it, Zed offers MUCH more counterpay when he's ahead compared to Talon.

Actually, when ahead, both of them have nearly no counterplay. Talon just click on you and burst you. The same thing for zed lol, but he doesn't need his ult at all if ahead

Titanium70Feb 28, 20161 votes

First of all:

Counterplay =/= Balance

If you can counter an OP-Champ, he still is OP If you cannot counter an overall balanced Champ he still is balanced.

A slow, small skillshot with 7.0AD+AP scaling is OP, but hey you can dodge it - would you really call this OK?

ATTENTION: I DONT TALK ABOUT ANY SPECIFIC CHAMPION!!! That's just something people seem to forget quiet often. (9 out of 10 times in discussions about zed)

Second: Zed may offer counterplay in Mid-Lategame, but you cant ignore that laning against him is pure antifun, his lane interaction is close to zero and his powercurve is a bad joke considering his role. Additionally Zed is heaviliy favored by shorter games with more snowball still he got buffs by Items, Kit and Masteries. This adds up so much, that the few bad matchups Zed had now also tend to loose the lane.

HauntFeb 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

First of all:

Counterplay =/= Balance

If you can counter an OP-Champ, he still is OP If you cannot counter an overall balanced Champ he still is balanced.

A slow, small skillshot with 7.0AD+AP scaling is OP, but hey you can dodge it - would you really call this OK?

ATTENTION: I DONT TALK ABOUT ANY SPECIFIC CHAMPION!!! That's just something people seem to forget quiet often. (9 out of 10 times in discussions about zed)

Second: Zed may offer counterplay in Mid-Lategame, but you cant ignore that laning against him is pure antifun, his lane interaction is close to zero and his powercurve is a bad joke considering his role. Additionally Zed is heaviliy favored by shorter games with more snowball still he got buffs by Items, Kit and Masteries. This adds up so much, that the few bad matchups Zed had now also tend to loose the lane.

Never said Zed is balanced one time in that post. I said he's easier to deal with when he's ahead than Talon is. Granted, it's hard, but still easier. Talon is definitely more broken than Zed, and this isn't even biased because I main them both, and had more Talon than Zed games last season.

DropFillFeb 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Talon's playstyle and the way he functions is much more unhealthy than Zed will ever be, stop having such a hateboner for Zed and open your eyes.

Talon playstyle is very unhealthy. But this doesn't make zed playstyle any less unhealthy. He is not worse than talon IMO , but the fact that zed is way too safe is toxic

NahuiFeb 28, 20161 votes

I agree on the CD nerf to be honest. It's cooldown is low enough that he can almost freely use it. When Talon's ult is up, he's nearly impossible to gank and has massive kill potential. Combined with the way his rake works, in that after level 5 he will continuously rake you and chunk you 1/4 each time means that he doesn't have too much counterplay in lane either. The mana only gates him so much. It's also much harder to dodge rake as it is Zed's shuriken, and rake's power comes from the double hits it does, and being hit by one almost guarantees a second. So thunderlord's is incredibly easy to proc.

I don't know if he needed a mana AND CD nerf, but the CD I think is due for. Hexdrinker + Ult + Flash = a champ almost impossible to burst down, even with a gank.

ForgiveColourFeb 28, 20161 votes

You mean how talon gets a change on his cd and mana cost but not lux? Yeah i agree

WalkingInACircleFeb 28, 20161 votes

Eh, Zed will probably get nerfed sooner or later too. Riot often talks about finding the "right" nerf.

ZorasamaFeb 28, 20161 votes

Riot also said they're going to mini rework Talon but they just ended up nerfing him more :^)

TokogawarufFeb 28, 20161 votes

Probably because he was nerfed right after item 3147 ´s Creation. Talon wasn´t

ScumbagZedFeb 28, 20161 votes

Your typical person crying about zed:

"I have zero mechanical skill and gamesense to be able to play around one of the 100+ champions in the game so please nerf this one because I suck so much that I can't play against it"

Lol

DropFillFeb 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Your typical person crying about zed:

"I have zero mechanical skill and gamesense to be able to play around one of the 100+ champions in the game so please nerf this one because I suck so much that I can't play against it"

Lol

Your typical person with no argument lol. The same argument over and over, but sincerely, zed takes no skill nowadays to stay ahead.

ScumbagZedFeb 29, 20161 votes

you could say the same for many other champions in the game