AD Bruisers inherently stronger than AP?

Valhalla Rising·Dec 3, 2016·5 votes·1,228 views

By Bruiser I mean they build roughly an even mix of damage and tank items, but I feel like an AD Bruiser gets more out of it than AP because they can weave decently strong auto attacks between spellcasts, while the AP Bruiser is restricted to just spells for their damage threat.

Inb4, I know this doesn't apply to every single Bruiser but I feel AD Bruiser Builds are generally more effective on the majority of the champs using them compared to AP.

Not to mention how much movespeed is available on AD Bruiser items.

Oh yea, and the steady decline of overall AP that exists in the game.

27 Comments

CerealBoxOfDoomDec 3, 20167 votes

define "strong"

MarshbouyDec 3, 20162 votes

What champions even are AP bruisers by your definition?

Laxfan52Dec 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What champions even are AP bruisers by your definition?

Id say mord, gragas, rumble, and maybe singed

OglafDec 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Id say mord, gragas, rumble, and maybe singed

Well, for at least Morde and Rumble they have a range advantage AND since they don't use Mana it isn't that bad.

mosaickleDec 4, 20161 votes

But someone like Morde lacks mobility :P

OglafDec 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

But someone like Morde lacks mobility :P

So does Darius and Illaoi (among others) who both are the very archetype of "AD bruiser" so...

mosaickleDec 4, 20161 votes

That's true..and both of those two have 'ranged' abilities as well huh..

OglafDec 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That's true..and both of those two have 'ranged' abilities as well huh..

Well, duh. What's your point? Whether AD or AP all Bruisers are going to share similar characteristics.

mosaickleDec 4, 20161 votes

If so, then OP's statement appears to be true, since AP is 'declining' in a sense, and if AD and AP bruisers share similar characteristics, AD bruisers as a result should appear inherently stronger...especially if you factor in the autoattacks (unless you buy something or use someone where their AAs do lots of AP dmg like item 3115

OglafDec 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If so, then OP's statement appears to be true, since AP is 'declining' in a sense, and if AD and AP bruisers share similar characteristics, AD bruisers as a result should appear inherently stronger...especially if you factor in the autoattacks (unless you buy something or use someone where their AAs do lots of AP dmg like

Or has a neat passive connecting their AP to the AAs like Ekko , yes.

But first we have to decide just who is an "AP Bruiser".

Looking at Morde's ratios, for example, he almost seems to be AD or at the very least Hybrid.

mosaickleDec 4, 20161 votes

Hmm, that's interesting. AD bruisers seem to be very distinct and easily identified whereas AP bruisers are more cloudy. Even someone like Kayle blurs the line between APC, AP bruiser and AP mage; someone like Vlad people say is an AP bruiser but also leans towards just a uhh, 'semi-tank' AP mage.

This is both intriguing and slightly frustrating lol

OglafDec 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Hmm, that's interesting. AD bruisers seem to be very distinct and easily identified whereas AP bruisers are more cloudy. Even someone like Kayle blurs the line between APC, AP bruiser and AP mage; someone like Vlad people say is an AP bruiser but also leans towards just a uhh, 'semi-tank' AP mage.

This is both intriguing and slightly frustrating lol

Add to that you have Champions like Sejuani and Zac who are indeed bruiser-like AND scale with AP (as well as Health), yet nobody would classify them as AP counterparts to the likes of Darius.

mosaickleDec 4, 20161 votes

They just get pushed aside as tanks...THIS IS RACIST

MordepoolDec 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Or has a neat passive connecting their AP to the AAs like , yes.

But first we have to decide just who is an "AP Bruiser".

Looking at Morde's ratios, for example, he almost seems to be AD or at the very least Hybrid.

He's AP has been for 5 years 1 short sighted Rework isn't going to change that

AcidTheWarlockDec 4, 20161 votes

Same with Rumble

Fondling GemsDec 3, 20161 votes

The issue with AP bruiser's as a concept is that they have to do a good chunk of AP damage, roughly on the level of an AD bruiser. The issue is that they are limited by their cd's, which lead to a need to boost their scalings so they output the same amount of total damage. This causes building them full AP to be highly effective as they turn into an assassin, ex. Diana. Despite having her highest AP scaling being on her aa oriented passive, she can just hit minions twice then combo a champ 100-0.

The other option is not boosting their scalings and instead boosting their base damages. This turns them into tanks that like to build a ROA first. Best example being Maokai, who has the kit to be a bruiser but functions best as a full tank with just a touch of AP.

The closest we have gotten is Evelynn for a bit, due to her consistent DPS. However due to a variety of reasons she never functions best as a bruiser, instead having varied between Full damage through either AD, AP, or Hybrid, or functioning best as a Tank.

The lack of aa's means that you have to balance their spells to be auto attacks, but can't let them weave in auto attacks without disrupting that flow. On top of that they have no way to build their equivalent of lifesteal (gunblade) because an AD champ with AP scalings will make better use of that than an AP champ with AD scalings due to the ability to weave in auto attacks.

It's just a whole mess of issues that would probably require an entire AP bruiser item rework just to let a new champ thrive in that role, which could simultaneously upset the AP balance in other areas.

IDK, maybe if they gave a melee champ aa's that scaled with AP instead of AD or something.

ShaolinToiletDec 3, 20161 votes

Chogath ivern

Fondling GemsDec 4, 20161 votes

Ivern isn't a bruiser.

Chogath is closer but once again 95% of the time he falls into the ROA > Full tank or Full AP category. Compare that to Jax or something similar. They build 2-3 damage items then go tanky to survive in teamfights. Most AP "Bruisers" build ROA, which they mostly pick up because they love all the stats and can afford to sit on it for 10 minutes while it stacks up. If ROA didn't exist they probably wouldn't buy any AP at all.

Neko CaitlynDec 4, 20161 votes

Riot favors AD bruisers by far in this game.

Big LincolnDec 4, 20161 votes

AP bruisers have never worked

they're either mages or they're tanks

OglafDec 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rwor6Ff9,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-12-04T00:28:11.917+0000)

AP bruisers have never worked

they're either mages or they're tanks

I dunno, Rumble seems decent.

Of course you have to remember that his mechanic allows for empowered auto-attacks AND he is not having one hand tied behind his back since he is Manaless.

Big LincolnDec 4, 20162 votes

rumble builds all AP items

OglafDec 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rwor6Ff9,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-12-04T00:46:51.876+0000)

rumble builds all AP items

....yes? Also, the sky is blue.

Big LincolnDec 4, 20162 votes