Trolling because one of your allies is going off-meta is so much worse than just meta breaking

Valhalla Rising·Oct 10, 2015·177 votes·7,020 views

Please stop thinking you trolling is justified just because someone on your team is breaking the meta per-say.

What kind of moronic logic is that? feel free to complain flame and report all you want but don't take it to the extreme and intentionally hinder the game for not only the meta breaker, but yourself and 3 other innocent people, how can you claim to be justified by "punishing" one person but also victimizing 3 others..........................

Besides the point that meta breaking is not an "offense" and you should just grow up and get used to it, griefing allies and assisting enemy team is quite obviously a reportable offense and vastly worse than breaking the meta.

I would say two wrongs don't make a right but meta breaking is not wrong and trolling is beyond wrong, to the point of malicious.

Basically grow the feck up.

168 Comments

Clown ApocalypseOct 10, 201510 votes

This happens to me all the time. I play support shaco and top lane ap shaco and generally do well. Every few games though I get trolled because someone doesn't like my pick. It's usually:

A) I am one of the first picks and call top then someone who picks after me tries to pick another top and force me to jungle B) People pick champs they have zero experience with then do horribly and flame me in chat all game C) If I'm supporting adc's have been known to do things like chase a blitzcrank ,who is low from stepping in the bushes into my boxes, past the minion wave to get pulled into a turret. Then either abandon bottom lane or start intent feeding or flaming the rest of the game. Somehow they decide their stupidity is because I picked support shaco, whose hidden passive allows you to steer friendly champions to their doom.

So many games where I play shaco and people just are total asses about it like I'm trolling. Won't gank my lane if I should happen to be down a little or anything. I stomped a trynd in lane 5-1 last night and he still ended up carrying the enemy team because my team managed to feed him after I had effectively shut him down. 2 people on my team ~15 deaths each. Me....like 7 4 and 6. Yet these mfers were talkin trash to me like my pick is what lost us the game. Even though I was getting double kills on trynd and yi when they ganked me. People are such dicks about what you pick that they don't even bother to look at your history or anything to see if you are trolling or not before they rage. When someone picks something crazy in champ select and says they aren't trolling I just go look them up on na.op.gg. It takes like 15 seconds. If theyre trolling I let the team know. IF they aren't I also let them know. I wish other people had the same courtesy. So tired of people saying "oh shaco top or shaco support, how can I make us lose to prove to him picking Shaco was a bad idea."

MarkoferOct 10, 20151 votes

So, how well does shaco support work? What are the advantages? Dagger poke? Brush control?

Clown ApocalypseOct 10, 20152 votes

Yes bush control first and foremost, then you also set boxes up behind your minion waves so if they try to get around you or dive you, you have a getaway. His E hurts, and it slows. After level 3 when I take my q I can pretty much poke most people with impunity. I'm pretty much capable of killing the adc by myself at any point unless they get fed. I counterjungle pretty good also when my ADC is competent enough to not push and die when I'm warding the enemy blue. I'm not saying there aren't better supports. But I cause a good amount of chaos and confusion in games. I also make very good bait because I have a flash on an 8 second cooldown that also turns me invisible. I'm a nightmare for champs like blitz and thresh that like to camp bushes and pull. Leona's a bit of a pain in the ass to deal with, but that's usually because of my adc and how they position, not a lot I can do as shaco if Leona catches you in a bad spot. He has 100% ap ratios on his E and his ult. So i'm frequently at the top of the list in damage. And to top it all off...all this constant trickery and disappearing and reappearing makes him soooooo much fun to play. There is no greater joy than watching the opposing team's Darius, Garen, or Cho tele from top lane to gank and end up ulting your clone. Also depending on what side the jungler starts on, my adc or myself can start lane at level 2 without either of us having to back.

Tik115Oct 10, 201510 votes

The meta is there to be broken, something people can't understand for some reason

ProzzakOct 10, 20155 votes

With that being said, if you are going to break meta in a ranked game then you should let your team know during the lobby. Preferably you ask and see if they are al right with it there and if they are cool, if they are not then save the meta breaking until a game where people are ok with it, or expect reports.

Clown ApocalypseOct 10, 201514 votes

People get stomped playing meta champs all the time because they think they SHOULD be playing them as opposed to someone they are good with. Too many people picking champs because they are OP in general as opposed to people playing champs they know how to use or fit their style of play. If reporting someone for doing poorly with a Meta champ is a worthless report, how is it a worthy report if you pick an off meta champ and do poorly? I thought the only requirement was that you give an honest effort at winning. There are always gonna be times people make bad calls on picks. Meta or not. All I ask is that if you are going to try something fancy....maybe give a few go's in teambuilder to iron out some of minor details like runes, masteries, and build path.

I've actually lost a few games to troll teams because my team was flabbergasted and couldn't react because the game wasn't going the way they were used to it being played out. Some people are so stuck on the meta that when you break it they cant figure out how to counter what you are doing fast enough and end up losing. It just boils down to the individual. You know if you are trolling, you know if you are picking something you have no experience with, and you know if you've been stomping people in numerous games. If you fall in the category of the latter, by all means break the meta I say.

ProzzakOct 10, 20152 votes

OP champs and meta are not the same thing.

Clown ApocalypseOct 10, 20157 votes

I didn't say they were. What I was implying is...Darius top is Meta. And OP right now. I play ap Shaco top, but suck with Darius IMO. I could pick Darius because I read somewhere he's a counter for whoever I'm laning against, and still get rekt because I don't know how to play him. Or I could play my off Meta pick, who I know how to play even when I'm behind. Basically I'm saying I could pick somebody OP and still get destroyed, but no one in queue would question it because it's meta and they are used to it being picked. Yet I can pick someone rarely used in the role I am using them, with a match history that says I usually do OK with them, and it's a problem. So much of a problem that other people play poorly and blame my pick. Then want to report me when I did better than or equal to most of the team. If people have that much of an issue with your pick they should just dodge instead of playing the game pretty much just to lose and report you. I've dodged promo games because I didn't wanna play with certain people. I'd rather just not play and lose points than spend 30 minutes stuck in a game pissed off just so I can report some asshole who was gonna guarantee me a loss. I just don't see why losing lane as an off meta pick should be reportable when losing lane as a meta pick isn't.

KoechopheOct 10, 20154 votes

At the same time, there's something to be said for versitility. I've often lobbied with people who "hard main" a single champion. For instance, I played with a guy who hard mains viegar. The enemy mid locked in galio as their first pick, and he proceeded to still play viegar and get hard countered and stomped. Had he been a bit more flexible, he could've picked an AD champ, or even an ADC mid and done a lot better.

Likewise, I played with a guy who was determined to play fiora. Their top locked in riven (for those of you at home, riven SLAUGHTERS fiora in so many ways it's not even funny) and our guy locked fiora and fed.

I'm not saying that you need to lock champions you're unfamiliar with, but it's a good idea to be able to play every role decently, and to know 2-3 champions in that role of different types. At bare minimum, you should know 1 adc (doesn't really matter which one tbh), 1 tank support and one utility support, 1 AD mid and 1 AP mid, 1 tank jungler and one damage jungler, 1 tank top and (optional) one ranged top. That type of lineup will win you a lot of games.

Clown ApocalypseOct 10, 20152 votes

Yeah there are always people who counter you with any champ. I can actually beat champs like trynd, fiora, riven in lane with ap shaco. I frequently do. That's why I pick him. I've learned of a few people not to pick him into, but at the same time, I have 5 different rune pages and mastery sets for ap shaco depending on the lane and matchup. I learned from my bad matchups and used runes and masteries to make my lane a little easier. People with a lot of sustain give me the most problems in lane. I can keep trynd off minion waves...but like mundo's garens vladimirs....I usually need ganks for those lanes becaue they just keep healing everytime I poke them. I also learned to take magic pen runes over ap runes if they have a lot of tanks. It's really all about learning from your previous games, including losses. I agree, you should be able to play every role to some basic degree. I'm a horrible adc IMO. I avoid it at all costs.

I didn't start playing AP shaco till I gave up on getting out of bronze this season. Before that I was maining support, had greats stats with most of the supports, and still couldn't get out of bronze. Now I just play what I like. 800 games of playing what the team needed and I was still dropping to b5 randomly. No point in trying to climb when I'll just get another "soft reset" and start next season bronze. At this point i'm just trying to get awesome enough with one champ to get out of bronze early next season. Being able to play Shaco in 4 different lanes makes it easier to get more experience in. I prefer top or support though.

I just think people should know their character...well. I think 5 champs people know how to play well beats the meta any day. When those 5 champs fall within the meta all the better. But what are the odds that each person in a game mains a different lane? Usually there's overlap, which means someone gets forced into a secondary role playing a character they only play occasionally. When you have one main champ you can play in 2-3 roles that betters your chances of good games I would think. I could be wrong. Call it faulty bronze logic. Lol. I just know that most of my losses are with people playing champs they don't have a clue how to play. Meta champs at that.

KoechopheOct 11, 20152 votes

Almost any strat will work if it's played well in anywhere before plat-ish, and sometimes even above that. This is me speaking as a gold player; I've seen echoes of cordinaton, but not enough to punish people who play sub-optimally.

ProzzakOct 10, 20151 votes

And my point is if you want to make a comment about something that has nothing to do with what I posted, then don't reply to my comment. My comment had to do with meta and meta only, if you want to talk about OP champs then do it somewhere else.

edit: Having skimmed your post, losing as off meta isn't necessarily reportable (unless straight up troll) it is just that people are much more likely to report you for it.

Clown ApocalypseOct 10, 20152 votes

You do understand that things can be both right? Me stating that Darius is an OP pick doesn't detract from the fact that he's considered a solid Top pick in the current meta. You think people should have to ask permission to play a champ they do well with, as opposed to picking someone meta they suck with unquestioned. That was the entire point of my statement.

Guy Fox TeemoOct 10, 20152 votes

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FlowBladeOct 10, 20152 votes

Ya but it would help if you played something that was atleast somewhat viable, I don't know how you could ever do good with AP MF mid.

BemaponOct 10, 20155 votes

I picked shaco support in ranked. Asked my team, they didnt respond and nobody had a problem... until top and mid lost.

0/4/0 and 1/8/0 between top and mid and suddenly it was my fault.

Me and my ADC even won botlane...

Captain DoomsdayOct 11, 20152 votes

That's fair. If it's Ranked, coordinate as much as possible. Casuals are for fun. Ranked is about winning, or at least trying.

ZT XperimentorOct 10, 20155 votes

I see this refusal to teamwork daily; if people want to win by themselves they should go play call of duty or some other lamely made pvp game. I agree, spot on.

Clown ApocalypseOct 10, 20153 votes

Sounds like the people who throw games because they wanna farm full builds instead of ending the game while they are up. Or the people who lose lane who spend the rest of the game farming because they are behind, like either they carry the game or it's a loss. Those are the same people who say gg when they die in lane. The same ones who go 0-6 in lane and then blame the off meta support for the loss like we had anything to do with top lane during laning phase. LOL.

EastridOct 10, 20153 votes

I when people take top dmg champs as support breaking meta. Then they take every kill bot lane, if you want to be a dick at lease pick a roll where you are meant to get kills. Like people say Brand can support he really can't he steals kills so easy that it's dumb.

ThePartyLeaderOct 10, 201545 votes

Purpose of the game is to beat the other team not to get fed

EastridOct 10, 20152 votes

That's why they are called supp...

ThePartyLeaderOct 10, 201531 votes

I can honestly say that I have never been mad as adc when we are getting kills in lane. Much less if I have a brand, Annie, or velkoz that gets the kill and becomes oppressive in lane after a kill or two and will deny the enemy adc levels and gold.

EastridOct 10, 20151 votes

Then enemy team focuses Brand in team fights and wreaks team, then team yells at adc for having no kills and no farm cause supp rekt bot lane but loses the game.

ThePartyLeaderOct 10, 201514 votes

Not trying to be argumentative but if your brand is killing the enemy adc you should have tons of farm. And if they are focusing brand you should be doing tons of damage in team fights since then they don't use the gap closers on you. Now if your brand just us positioning badly then that is a separate topic. Some people do just go ham when they are ahead because they don't fully understand the game.

Vegas DadOct 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Not trying to be argumentative but if your brand is killing the enemy adc you should have tons of farm. And if they are focusing brand you should be doing tons of damage in team fights since then they don't use the gap closers on you. Now if your brand just us positioning badly then that is a separate topic. Some people do just go ham when they are ahead because they don't fully understand the game.

No, it doesnt work like this so why do you make shit up? It works like this in lane they focus the ADC, you die in the fight, thier adc gets the kill, and then brand kills their adc. So you dont get tonnes of farm, and later on you got a shitty apc with no farm but kills and a shitty adc with farm but now kills, and their draven has farm and kills and 2 shots brand and then you, while thier support leona has no farm no kills, but is just a cc bot and meatshield.

ThePartyLeaderOct 10, 201511 votes

What? The comment the discussion is about talks about brand kill stealing in lane. Your example has the adc dead. So brand couldn't kill steal. Cause your dead and unless your kog, zyra, karthus, or sion you can't realistically secure your own kills after you die. So your comment is completely unrelated.

GhostButter01Oct 10, 201525 votes

{quoted}

I can honestly say that I have never been mad as adc when we are getting kills in lane. Much less if I have a brand, Annie, or velkoz that gets the kill and becomes oppressive in lane after a kill or two and will deny the enemy adc levels and gold.

Agreed. Any ADC that complains about being "KSd" should just be insta-muted. There are plenty of ways to get that gold and I don't see how sharing a little with your support is a bad thing. This isn't LCS and we aren't throwing all the gold at our carries.

Even better If the kill is on the enemy ADC. ADC's rarely use teleport, so even if my support kills the ADC, then I get to freeze the lane.. farm 2 waves and then push into the enemy turret to deny the other ADC farm all before he can even get back to lane. That's easily an equivalent to getting a kill myself. Odds are I still got that assist gold too.

Ariel the CruelOct 10, 201521 votes

Any ADC that complains about being "KSd" should just be insta-muted.

Draven

EevlynnOct 10, 20156 votes

Kindred

Edit: Guys, I was making a joke based on their voice lines - they complain when somebody takes their kill and I was just referencing that.

Battlecast SonaOct 10, 20157 votes

Kindred still gets stacks on assists.

Troll for TrumpOct 10, 20159 votes

Draven definatly an exception. ACTUALLY give him every single kill, cuz he needs it. He can complain about ksing, as long as he won't bitch about 24/7.

ChaoticPineconeOct 10, 20152 votes

You dont have to give Draven every single kill. He only gets 50 (maybe a little more, like 60 if it takes a while) extra gold getting a double in lane. Splitting one for Draven and one for the support is practically gold as much as giving both to Draven, with the support taking both being the least gold efficient.

stevedoesmcOct 10, 20151 votes

UNLESS IT'S EVERY SINGLE KILL AND THEY ARE BUILDING TANKY!

Ariel the CruelOct 11, 20152 votes

Full build tank by mid game when people are building damage . . . Full build tank late game when everybody has Armor/MR pen and shred. . .

Tough call.

A Sterling BeeOct 10, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Agreed. Any ADC that complains about being "KSd" should just be insta-muted. There are plenty of ways to get that gold and I don't see how sharing a little with your support is a bad thing. This isn't LCS and we aren't throwing all the gold at our carries.

Even better If the kill is on the enemy ADC. ADC's rarely use teleport, so even if my support kills the ADC, then I get to freeze the lane.. farm 2 waves and then push into the enemy turret to deny the other ADC farm all before he can even get back to lane. That's easily an equivalent to getting a kill myself. Odds are I still got that assist gold too.

I am fine with my support taking my kill but when they start taking the cs that's when I get pissed.

GhostButter01Oct 11, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=First Aidan,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=XewbavvG,comment-id=000100010000000000010001,timestamp=2015-10-10T17:53:04.352+0000)

I am fine with my support taking my kill but when they start taking the cs that's when I get pissed.

I'm also in agreement here. 110%...

Edit: Some clarification; I am in no way endorsing that supports should make the effort to "steal" kills from the ADC. If that support grabs a kill or 3 in the course of heated fights, the thought process should be, "How do we use this to our advantage?" and not "flame the support for being bad."

Relating this to the OPs post: Its obvious when the support is being an ass and taking kills and cs from the carry. To me, this is trolling. Picking the odd champ with the intent of trying to actually support.. not trolling.

Rosewell8Oct 10, 20155 votes

I still say sorry if I KS by accident, such as trying to use my e to get to the enemy and root them so my Adc can kill, but my Adc damages them enough for them to die to my E.

Vegas DadOct 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Purpose of the game is to beat the other team not to get fed

and it is well established that the best way to beat the other team is to get fed...please keep your stupid ass out of ranked play bye.

ThePartyLeaderOct 10, 201514 votes

So support players should get fed. Thanks for the supporting comment!

High5Oct 10, 20152 votes

Teemo support is not an off meta thing. It's not a thing at all. Don't do it. People deserve to recieve negative feedback for bad choices.

There's a line, but this is a competitive game. Winning is fun. Losing is not, especially when it's not in your control.

PikmintsOct 10, 20158 votes

Going to give my experience as Teemo support since I've tried a lot of things support. Sadly his E DoT doesn't cash in on Spellthief's Edge stacks, but your autos still do more damage than most supports so it's still worth poking with it. Having a blind in a lane where the enemy will always rely on auto attack damage is valuable, so long as you keep an eye on your mana to not let it go below half for emergencies. Your mushrooms are a lifesaver if the enemy team has an Evelynn jungle since your sightstone won't help much against her. After your first 3 mandatory items, buying Liandry's then Luden's guarantees that your mushrooms will still deal significant damage.

Not a support you'd want if your opponent has significant poke as you can't retaliate safely nor keep the damage your team takes minimized by shields or heals. Also worth avoiding if your team relies heavily on peel (either with someone like Kog'maw who needs cc or against a team with assassins). If your team has a significant lack of magic damage, this is one of the few supports I'd recommend as his build lets him get enough magic damage to make it worth itemizing against.

Teemo support can be played poorly, and if so, give them constructive feedback. It can be done right and rarely even be a fantastic pick based on the other champs in the game.

KoechopheOct 10, 20158 votes

This is exactly the attitude that's problematic. What is your basis to say teemo support cannot work? He provides unparralleled vision control and can effectively kill 90% of the damage from an adc for 2.5 seconds, as well as having decent poke and great map vision. You probably saw someone do it badly, and decided it was bad. That is not a good premise.

I like unorthodox support picks. I've done support malphite and support galio a lot, both to great success, but often people on my own team end up losing us the match because they troll. They ignore the fact that bot lane is stomping and that team fight impact is huge, and every time I die (which usually is very low) that is "proof" that my pick lost us the match. Keep an open mind, do what you need to do and let others do the same.

Vegas DadOct 10, 20151 votes

[deleted]

TwigglesOct 10, 201511 votes

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present for your entertainment: The Problem

Battlecast SonaOct 10, 20155 votes

Picking offmeta is not trolling.

Definition of a troll from google

make a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them. "if people are obviously trolling then I'll delete your posts and do my best to ban you"

DELIBERATELY. DELIBERATE, DELIBERATELY. WITH THE AIM OF UPSETTING SOMEONE.

Picking a champion that's considered offmeta!= trolling.

Vegas DadOct 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Vitriolic Cat,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=XewbavvG,comment-id=00070002,timestamp=2015-10-10T19:14:54.339+0000)

Picking offmeta is not trolling.

Definition of a troll from google "if people are obviously trolling then I'll delete your posts and do my best to ban you"

DELIBERATELY. DELIBERATE, DELIBERATELY. WITH THE AIM OF UPSETTING SOMEONE.

Picking a champion that's considered offmeta!= trolling.

You know what the meta is, and you deliberately picked off meta, knowing it will upset your teamates.... are you dense or just that stubborn?

Battlecast SonaOct 10, 20156 votes

I could ask you the same thing. Picking a champion that I want to play because I think it's a good pick in this situation is not trolling. In a solo queue game, I don't give a shit what my teammates think of my pick, I'm thinking only of my own personal synergy with my team and the counters against the enemy team. If they pick 5 melees and I want to pick a weird offmeta ranged support to help siege them because we have no siege, how is that a bad pick? Just because some asshole decides that vel'koz/brand/whatever support is garbage doesn't mean it was a bad pick.

I can understand people getting angry over a legitimately bad pick (picking things that don't synergize with your team/have any obvious utility or counters to the enemy team), but if I pick Vel'Koz because they picked all immobile characters, I'm going to destroy them. Complaining that it's "offmeta" and that that instantly makes it trolling doesn't make the pick any worse, just your perception of it.

Trolling deliberately being offensive - I'm not picking offmeta to be offensive, I'm picking it because I enjoy it and I think the pick can work. Having the side effect of potentially making people angry doesn't make it trolling, because I'm not DELIBERATELY being OFFENSIVE. Reading comprehension is powerful.