Can we talk about Jax's dodge for a second? The Vayne change has finally prompted me to make this.

hashinshin··3 votes·1,382 views

_NOW LETS CLEAR UP A HUGE MISCONCEPTION REAL QUICK. Jax's dodge DOES NOT go on cooldown until it is activated. That means at BEST it's a 17-9 second CD, and at worst a 18-10 second CD. What's more is that since it doesn't go on cooldown until after use the MOST you can do is get 40% CDR and put it at 6.8 second CD. Compare this to Fizz who gets his E also on a 16-8 second CD, but whose ability goes immediately on CD whether or not you use the long or short version. What's more, lets compare for a second. Fizz has 2020 health and 80 armor at level 18. Jax has 2038 health and 78 armor at level 18. Jax's health is NOT on par with tanky-bruisers like Irelia, Jarvan, etc. But rather it is on par with squishy bruisers like Riven, Fizz, Yorick. Champions that are supposed to be getting survivability hrough their kit. What's more is that since Jax has no %HP damage it is EXPECTED that he gets BotRK real quick or he will have no way at all to punch through tanks. This is why Shen and Renekton are used to demolish Jax, since they get tankier far faster than he can get BotRK. Now you can say "BUT HIS ULTIMATE, BUT HIS ULTIMATE." except with a 49% win rate I don't think his ultimate is doing enough to make up for the rest of his kit. _ So with the latest patch Vayne will now get her tumble CD to start on attack rather than on landing the attack. Why Riot saw it necessary to spend time buffing a champion who was already a high meta pick I'll never know (actually I do know, cause it's an ADC!) but lets move on.

This change now means Jax can no longer lock Vayne out of her tumble. In the past the response to vayne popping ult + tumble was it... dodge and run away. Nobody can 1v1 vayne in her ult so why even bother trying? However, now she will reset her tumble CD and be able to... tumble back in to range. This means there is yet another ability that dodge loses utility against.

Couple patches ago Fizz Q was changed to ignore dodge. Why was that necessary? Why was a counter pick removed from Fizz? I don't know. Riot likes to change champions to beat Jax then wonders why nobody is playing Jax anymore (it must be because Jax's ult doesn't give enough armor for LW to ignore!)

Jax's dodge dodges juuuuuuuuust enough abilities that you have to be careful against it, but doesn't not enough to actually have to prepare for. Let me give you some examples:

Dodges Parlay, Dodges mystic shot, doesn't dodge Double Up. Why? well... I dunno. It just does.

Dodges Darius's W, doesn't dodge pretty much any other auto attack modifier. Even though his auto attack modifier itself gets dodged because it's not coded as an auto attack modifier but rather an auto attack that just does magic damage. And yes, that means his is the ONLY auto attack modifier in the game that gets cancelled by stuns, movement, flash, etc.

Dodges yorick's ghouls, doesn't dodge Zyra's plants nor heimer's turrets. I mean, I guess they are ranged which makes it K?

Will now dodge both of Lucian's passive shots not giving him the CDR, but will dodge tumble... still giving it the CDR...?

Dodges Lux's auto attacks so she can't proc her passive. Doesn't dodge Shen's passive proc. Doesn't dodge Nocturne's entire damage if it's used to proc his passive. Dodges riven's passive. Etc. It goes on like this, no real reason for any of it.

Sivir's entire E goes through. All 3 auto attacks. Why? Cause fuck Jax apparently. Xin Zhao's Q doesn't go through dodge. Why? Because fuck melee apparently.

Kog'maw's attacks just go straight through dodge. Why? Cause fuck Jax apparently. This one I've told so many times I can't help but feel like Riot likes Kog'maw countering Jax for some sadistic reason.

Now lets ask ourselves: Is there a reason for any of it? No not really. Ezreal's Q is dodged, but Yasuo's Q isn't dodged. What is the difference between these abilities besides range and one uses a projectile? Both add flat damage to an ability that procs all on hit effects. What's more is that Yasuo's Q can crit making it seem more like Parlay which is dodged. So why is his not dodged? I have no idea.

Of course your first response is going to be "BUT JAX IS SO OP OMG!" Actually he's not. And hasn't been for a year. And in fact he's actually weak enough that his play rate has fallen off dramatically. He currently sits at a 5% play rate and a 49% win rate. Lets think about that for a second. Here is a champion who was at one point at a 20% play rate, who has been in the game since launch. He was the most popular bruiser pretty much for the entirety of LoL's existence outside of small blips like Xin Zhao after release. And now he sits at a 49% win rate, and a 5% pick rate. Irelia has a 12% pick rate, Gnar has an 11% pick rate, even Renekton has a 7% pick rate.

So you have to ask yourself: Doesn't Jax deserve to have his dodge cleaned up? Isn't it about time abilities like Sivir's E stop ignoring it? Abilities like Yasuo's Q stop ignoring it? Abilities like Kog'maw's W stop ignoring it? Isn't it about time Jax's dodge either dodges or does not dodge special attacks? And with GP's rework tomorrow I can nearly guarantee that they're going to make it ignore dodge.

Why do I have to memorize the special interactions between EVERY SINGLE CHAMPION and Jax? Isn't that a bit absurd honestly?

2 Comments

Durzaka3 votes

{quoted}

Jax's dodge dodges juuuuuuuuust enough abilities that you have to be careful against it, but doesn't not enough to actually have to prepare for. Let me give you some examples:

Dodges Parlay, Dodges mystic shot, doesn't dodge Double Up. Why? well... I dunno. It just does.

Double Up isnt an AA. both Paarlay and Mystic shot are coded as ranged AA. So what exactly is your point?

Dodges Darius's W, doesn't dodge pretty much any other auto attack modifier. Even though his auto attack modifier itself gets dodged because it's not coded as an auto attack modifier but rather an auto attack that just does magic damage. And yes, that means his is the ONLY auto attack modifier in the game that gets cancelled by stuns, movement, flash, etc.

Not mention to say here, having only 2 examples out of a potential 120 isnt much of a conversation.

Dodges yorick's ghouls, doesn't dodge Zyra's plants nor heimer's turrets. I mean, I guess they are ranged which makes it K?

I assume you mean the ghouls attacks and not the skill. The attacks are coded as AA, whereas plants and turrets are coded as part of the spell. Different skills are different (Yorick is also a mess in need of a rework).

Dodges Lux's auto attacks so she can't proc her passive. Doesn't dodge Shen's passive proc. Doesn't dodge Nocturne's entire damage if it's used to proc his passive. Dodges riven's passive. Etc. It goes on like this, no real reason for any of it.

All 4 of those skills are so entirely diferent I dont understand why you cant comprehend why Counterstrike works like it does. Lux's AA must connect to proc the passive. Dodging it doesnt make it connect, and the passive remains ticking on jax. Shen's passive proc is a spell not an AA modifier. Ill give you full credit for Nocturnes passive, that is stupid. Riven's passive is an AA modifier, which Jax dodges.

Sivir's entire E goes through. All 3 auto attacks. Why? Cause fuck Jax apparently. Xin Zhao's Q doesn't go through dodge. Why? Because fuck melee apparently.

Can Sivir's W crit (legit question, i dont know, and I assume you mean Ricochet not Spellshield)? That one is definitely a weird zone. Xin's Q is a buff. It even says next 3 attacks. It isnt changing them in any way and makes sense for them to be dodged.

Kog'maw's attacks just go straight through dodge. Why? Cause fuck Jax apparently. This one I've told so many times I can't help but feel like Riot likes Kog'maw countering Jax for some sadistic reason.

If the entirety of Kog'maws W AA goes through dodge then that is stupid. Ive got a feeling that you are mistaking the entire attack for the magical part of it though.

I agree with the Vayne Tumble interaction though. That is stupid.

hashinshin1 votes

Oh I totally forgot one of the most hilarious things:

Jax'd dodge doesn't dodge projectiles that are in the air BEFORE he dodges. Unless it does. Or maybe it doesn't. Either way, MOST projectiles that are in the air will not be dodged.

Except projectiles that are in the air while he's dodging that hit him after he's done dodging will ALSO not be dodged.

Why? I really think this one was a joke to Jax players.

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