What did the Zyra rework accomplish anyway?

Valhalla Rising·9/23/2019, 5:32:14 PM·23 votes·12,362 views

From my prospective, it made her gameplay more autonomous/less controllable, and she became a win lane or lose game champ.

Old Zyras early game was not as strong but that was balanced around her staying relevant as the match evolved.

Almost everything in her kit was slightly nerfed(especially Q shape/distance) to make room for ostensibly stronger plants.

Gameplay revolving around aiming spells at randomly spawned inanimate objects is super lame anyway, her kit was already uber fun spawning them manually as well as skillshot passive(SO FREAKING FUN)

Anyway, what am I missing(besides old Zyra ): ?

32 Comments

Illidan is HOT9/23/2019, 8:24:10 PM17 votes

What did it accomplish? It's pretty easy.

Made her easier/more braindead to play, she doesn't even have to aim on the seeds anymore but can throw her spells near them
Made her actually more boring to play. You thought that having more plants would be more fun? Nope. You just randomly throw spells near seeds and hope for the RNG to finish the job
There are more plants which means they had to reduce their survi. Plants are getting 1 shot by about everything. Any aoe/dot destroys them.
Removed iconic part of her skillset (skillshot passive was very satysfying to land and made Zyra a threat even if you killed her)

Sukishoo9/23/2019, 6:37:04 PM9 votes

Honestly I feel it accomplished nothing.

They could have done much more for a rework with her. Giving her a passive that is the SAME as one of her abilities was just an absolute waste. If anything, why not change the W to something else if you were gonna give that to her in a passive? Give her more tools to do something with.

Personally I also never cared much for her ult and thought they could have done more there since it's something that is so easy to get away from, not all that useful in most cases but of course they never touched it.

Rıots Bad Client9/24/2019, 6:24:41 AM8 votes

Give her a real passive. No body liked her old passive, it just rewarded dying... which wasnt a good thing for a mage. If you said you liked it, fine thats cool. but it still sucked.

aside from that, nothing to much, they made her a pretty boring champ. I dont want to see a revert because old zyra was still pretty not great. I would rather them focus on zyras current kit or expand the kit. reverting solves nothing.

Her abilities are generic, her plants are unreliable. But her Theme is very lucrative.

Saezio9/24/2019, 7:35:50 AM5 votes

They supposedly made plants stronger, yet plants now die to 2 autos best case scenario.

Sire Hippington9/24/2019, 1:32:59 AM5 votes

Yep, all they did is takeing her skill expression and fun parts and replaceing it with boring rng plant spam.

Old zyra had fewer plants, but the once she had where more powerfull and she had controll over which plant spant where, makeing her plants a more meaninfull part of her gameplay and skillexpression. Quite ironic that the rework that was meant to focus her more on plants actually mad her plants less meaningfull ....

In addition to that, she lost her passive. Not that it was a great passive, but on an imobile squishy, haveing that last nuke upon dieing was actually quite valuable, especially as support in the 2v2. Also, getting revengekills that way is very statisfying, and it's not like they replaced it with anything interactive or fun...

SpecterVonBaren9/24/2019, 5:04:10 AM5 votes

Are we really at the point where people actually look back on Zyra's passive as something good?

Gùrl Gâmér9/24/2019, 2:54:10 AM4 votes

I don't remember who first started saying it but i'll have to agree with them when they say "Any passive that requires you to be dead, is a bad passive" exception being Sion. Q covered larger AOE, and allows a safe zone when combined with her Q. The combo is still E, W,W, R. Zyra works best with a rylia's and torment, with sorc boots.

lolipopevelynn9/23/2019, 8:59:26 PM4 votes

all of those class updates accomplished nothing. they were changes just for the sake of change. velkoz is probably the only champ that came out positive from any of them. everyone else was either broken and needed reverts or just too weak. graves was very fun at first, till everyone realized he couldnt go bot lane and was hard stuck to jg.

Illabethe9/23/2019, 9:45:50 PM4 votes

New Zyra made her hit boxes more versatile, gave more access to plants, cleaned up the botched attempt at CDR reduction (up to 10% in her kit), in exchange for more burst damage.

What actually happened sounds like the opposite of what you THINK happened.

Plants are FAR weaker now. Less base HP, and higher ticks taken off them per hit now than before by specific types of attacks (melee instant kill, range 2 shot, or in the case of MF, 1 shot)
Q is far more versatile now, and a good Zyra can exploit/hit it at extremely safe distances. To put it into perspective: I can erase an Caitlyn outside her Rapid Fire Cannon Range. That's what a GOOD Zyra can do. I don't know why some nostalgic players like the old circle; immediately after her rework, everyone was complaining about how the NEW version is broken.

P.S. Old Zyra had the same Manual seed spawn rate as now. The new plants are SUPPLEMENTAL. She also could only store 2 back then as well.

P.P.S. Cry more about losing True damage post death skill shot. Get rewarded more for playing bad.

Raven Redeemed9/23/2019, 11:48:24 PM4 votes

Yeah, new Zyra has less agency over the game in exchange for her having less counter play, which seems unhealthy. She is far less rewarding when positioning plants correctly (bc they do less individually) and enemies have fewer chances to trade since her passive pumps out seeds which you can’t really plan for. Her old passive was awful (for a mage at least) and her thematic is stronger now, but at the cost healthy gameplay.

CaptainAntiHeroz9/24/2019, 12:36:23 AM4 votes

it made clearing her plants way to easy in the late game and put more of a focus on landing her other abilities which kinda defeats the purpose of having her plants...... but i mean they still do damage so im really torn between YAY my abilities hurt them and WHY ARENT MY PLANTS KILLING THEM ALREADY????

Stupid Idea9/24/2019, 6:14:43 AM4 votes

Unpopular opinion but old Zyra was all about burst. No one really cared about plants other than some poke. It was all about hitting E Q R and dropping WW sometime in between. I have more than 1M points on Zyra and I was not happy with the rework but I won't pretend I was missing old plants. It was that sweet sweet Q damage. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Jenivie9/23/2019, 10:20:08 PM3 votes

Her passive is horrible and unreliable. I hate it. Give me back my zyra plant with the one use execute shot. That was sick.

FSRER9/24/2019, 8:42:15 AM2 votes

They wanted to compete with EA by creating their own garden warfare and so Zyra rework became a thing

Pumpedhero9/24/2019, 4:32:37 PM1 votes

An absolutely disgusting champion that needs to be nerfed. Thats what it accomplished.

EATARI9/24/2019, 7:01:27 PM1 votes

I personally really enjoy using passive seeds to control space. I do think that having the (pseudo) randomly spawn is odd though. Once you learn that seeds only spawn 400-700 units ahead in the direction you’re moving, you gain a lot more control over their positioning. But it’s fun to deny space in lane by hovering 600 units away with Q up.

General Esdeath 9/24/2019, 10:19:51 PM1 votes

What did ANY of the mage updates do?

Malzahar went from a spell slinging mage with DoT damage and multiple builds to a mana sink that can push waves later but not early and is gated by his strong defensive passive

was once one of the BEST champs for damage. Great single target damage, with a DoT passive based on max HP to give him a tank killing kit that also could chunk anyone not a tank. Now? He's a damage support that can SOMETIMES work mid but not as well as before because all his damage is in his 3 hit passive now. His whole kit (except W) was nerfed, and he's given a passive that you can avoid with just a stopwatch on a delayed explosion, meaning champs like Bard Braum (if he's good) Ekko Evelynn Fiora Fizz Garen Galio Gragas Ivern Janna Kindred LeeSin Leona Lissandra Lulu Lux Morgana Nautilus Neeko Nocturne Orianna Nasus Renekton Riven Rumble Shaco Shyvana Sion Sivir Sylas Swain TahmKench Taric Thresh Udyr Urgot Xayah XinZhao Zilean can ALL avoid his ult explosion by using a shield, health increase, or various other means.

Vladimir no longer drain tanks you with spells and does more damage as the fight goes on, now he just bursts you down while healing himself.

Cassiopeia was pushed to top lane and became a melee bully instead of a DPS mage who has a condition of hitting her poison. Remember when you had to poison someone to spam E? Now you just spam it anyway!

Velkoz used to be a personal favorite of mine, with his burst and range, now it's just like Brand, all about the passive. EXCEPT HIS PASSIVE FUCKING SUCKS, and the rest of his abilities have high damage, so they got nerfed a bit, and now he's just another support mage.