I took Top after seasons of wallowing in Support. I thought "well, if the bot lane is irrelevant, and Mid and Jungle are carry - then Top is the difference maker." but as I play it more it seems to me that the lane is determined by some combination of
Is there something I'm doing wrong up there? Are other lanes just as bad?
Asayake 5150glow1 votesIf you're playing statchecky/low skillcap champions, which are more abundant top lane, then of course it's mostly about getting countered since the finer stuff has to do with the jungler and stuff.
RookPusher1 votesI don't know what that means but I typically play a Jarvan/Moakai/Shen top.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesI don't know what that means but I typically play a Jarvan/Moakai/Shen top.
Getting countered as those champions usually screws you over, they're all pretty simple with the exception of probably Shen. I'm not an expert on them tho, and Shen has huge maf influence even when not winning his lane... More complex champions like Riven or something don't care so much about counters since there's always a chance for them to win lane or roam via better mechanics.
RookPusher1 votesSo what would you suggest I do instead?
AFK Push1 votesAll the champs you listed are great at mid to late for teamfights. With the exception of J4 and shen sometimes don't expect to win your lane especially against something like teeto top. You also have to accept that you can let that top tower fall. At around 15-20 mins you should be making plays not babysitting your first tier when you could be getting shit done around the map. In terrible matchups take tp, start doran shield into tabi, and use your abilities to farm if you have too.
Big Lincoln1 votestop laners are the most skilled champs
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rgdR7INE,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-08-09T20:34:26.841+0000)
top laners are the most skilled champs
Yeah. but it also contains the least skilled champions. Like Trundle. And Garen.
Big Lincoln1 voteswrong, both of those champs have high skillcaps
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rgdR7INE,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T21:30:16.504+0000)
wrong, both of those champs have high skillcaps
Eh... what.
Big Lincoln1 votessheer versatility of trundle's pillar makes him high skillcap
garen's basic spells all have a condition to them so he has decision making and macro focus, using Q/W to minimize crowd control is harder than it looks, E has a mini-isolation mechanic to give you the most damage
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rgdR7INE,comment-id=000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-10T01:15:23.198+0000)
sheer versatility of trundle's pillar makes him high skillcap
Erh... it doesn't seem that hard... I mean mostly people just use it as a knockup to delay the backline or to block a thin passage, or just to slow. It's really not that versatile, only with like 3 uses. And choosing one is also pretty simple.
garen's basic spells all have a condition to them so he has decision making and macro focus, using Q/W to minimize crowd control is harder than it looks, E has a mini-isolation mechanic to give you the most damage
W is just a timing spell, sure it doesn't last long but it's basically just a short shield. Just using it whenever he goes in would be fine. Q timing is pretty obsolete because there's no way Garen will get in range without using it. Also, it's CD isn't that long so there's not usually a need to hold it - if you can stick to your target they'll only get 1.5 seconds of being able to use abilities. E's isolation thing isn't really all that important since most people will either 1) fight him in minions, aka trading, or 2) know that they're strong enough to take him out so that it doesn't matter if he's getting the iso damage or not.
Big Lincoln1 votesErh... it doesn't seem that hard... I mean mostly people just use it as a knockup to delay the backline or to block a thin passage, or just to slow. It's really not that versatile, only with like 3 uses. And choosing one is also pretty simple.
you can use it to trap people to walls, block areas, deny blitz hooks, stop dashes, stop your ally recall -- Trundle's pillar is one of the most versatile spells in the game. You need to understand how much this one spell allows for creativity on the part of the Trundle player to really appreciate the ability
Anags1 votesPretty sure it can interrupt tristana's jump if timed right.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rgdR7INE,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-10T01:30:24.417+0000)
you can use it to trap people to walls, block areas, deny blitz hooks, stop dashes, stop your ally recall -- Trundle's pillar is one of the most versatile spells in the game. You need to understand how much this one spell allows for creativity on the part of the Trundle player to really appreciate the ability
That's all in 1) block people and 2) knockup.
It's also practically instant so there's no timing involved. And very little aim either, just point and click on them.
Also I'm pretty sure Trundle pillar can't deny Blitz hooks? Unless you mean by displacing your ally so it misses, lol.
ValyrianBlade1 votes[{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rgdR7INE,comment-id=000000010000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-08-10T20:30:28.360+0000)
That's all in 1) block people and 2) knockup.
It's also practically instant so there's no timing involved. And very little aim either, just point and click on them.
Also I'm pretty sure Trundle pillar can't deny Blitz hooks? Unless you mean by displacing your ally so it misses, lol.
After blitz has hooked your ally, you can create the pillar to displace your ally while he's going towards blitz.
The new displacement overrides the previous displacement, so the hook doesn't get to finish. You can accomplish the same thing with say, a J4 ult on an enemy that happens to be in the path, but that's way more luck dependent.
AFK Push1 votesI understand what you're saying, but a garen player is very limited. It's like being handicapped if you will. If a person got to diamond playing garen, and a person got to diamond playing meta champs then the garen would most likely be a much better macro player (game knowledge) where the meta player is just playing busted stuff.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesI understand what you're saying, but a garen player is very limited. It's like being handicapped if you will. If a person got to diamond playing garen, and a person got to diamond playing meta champs then the garen would most likely be a much better macro player (game knowledge) where the meta player is just playing busted stuff.
Aye, but in terms of champion skill, Garen is indeed limited as it's very hard to demonstrate skill with him. Especially compared to other champions.
doodlebob6661 votesif your not playing a damage carry like 
, or a split pusher like 
you carry by controlling the game and creating situations that create your team a lead, rather than hard carrying yourself. Your main influence on the game is by setting your opponent behind if, and by creating plays and speeding the game up if your winning, or slowing it down when you are losing. Your job is to snowball your team hard enough that even the most incompetent idiots couldn't throw the lead you made, or stall the game out with picks so that you can pray to god that your team has better scaling,
RookPusher1 votesBut I guess my questions is, how do I do that if I'm counter-picked and their jungle knows it and is exploiting it?
I'm more often than not playing Maokai. If they have, I don't know, Teemo and a Lee Sin who's looking to dive under tower then whats the plan? Stay alive and occupy the jungle?
doodlebob6661 votesIf they have, I don't know, Teemo and a Lee Sin who's looking to dive under tower then whats the plan? Stay alive and occupy the jungle?
if someone is trying to dive you as most top laners your job is to clear the wave, so they can't take the tower, and try to retreat, if you can't distracting them as long as possible is the best thing to do, but try and force them to blow as many resources as possible,
if your counter picked try to gank bot as much as possible, but try and stay as safe as possible, buying 
is sometimes not a good idea early on since it pushes the wave and you want it as close to your tower as possible so rushing 
or 
against ad(dont go to thornmail) and 
against ap is a much safer. For maokai ignoring your trinket and using saplings to ward is sometimes a good idea if you are worried about being punished for it. Maokai's counters dont scale nearly as well as him unless they are hard core split pushers, but even then your main goal is to survive long enough for you to get 2 core items, while trying to impact the map.
RookPusher1 votesAwesome. Thanks a lot, man. I appreciate it.
redniwediS1 votesBiggest thing I can recommend is communicating with your team. If the enemy jungler is camping you and you're not the type of champ to snowball if you get jungle assistance then your jungler really can't help you directly. Instead you should make sure he knows your situation so he can focus on taking dragon and helping snowball bot or mid.
It is a team game, and you're only one part of it. That said if you're getting tower dived and your team doesn't communicate there's really nothing you can do. Just practice your CS and general lane mechanics and hope your team votes yes at 20.
RookPusher1 votesI'll see how it works out. Thanks.
ZenithEevee1 votesBecause half the time, If you're not pushing right up to the enemy base, Or ganking every other lane, You're probably having a noodle-waving contest with the other toplaner.
tribunalisrigged1 votesI think your 100% correct, test this out. Run heimerdinger full tank top you can push the lane right into their tower and troll both the jungle if if they kill you your way ahead in cs and screwed the other lanes over because their jungle had to camp you and it did jack shit to your laning. It truly shows top is useless. People should be exploiting more proxy like playing
Engelin1 votesI dunno. Playing was the easiest hard carry experience of my life. I guess it doesn't matter if bot lane ints when I can ignore the ADC's damage and 3shot him with the instant combo (or whatever actual long-time Jax mains call it).
AFK Push1 votesTop laners have to have more understanding of macro play than other laners. The lane is longer meaning if you're pushed in and not warded properly, you have this long ass lane to run away from the enemy laner and jungler. Mid this isn't as much of a problem due to how short it is, and bot you have your support to help you out with peeling and warding. You have to be self reliant as a top laner, keep that in mind. Junglers also tend to prioritize other lanes, because it can be hard to have gank/kill potential on tanks and bruisers as opposed to the squishies in other lanes.
A lot of top laners are good splitpushers, which means you have to pay attention to the minimap count heads, ward properly, and even make tp plays (especially if you are playing a tank, teamfighting bruiser, or see a good chance to tp and steal an objective or backdoor).