Pick Intent Worries Me

Smitemuffin·Nov 5, 2015·46 votes·5,246 views

Showing your team where you intend to go and what you intend to play worries me just a little. I'm a player who enjoys off-picks that, while effective, often garner a ton of vitriol. I remember the pre-rework days (my favorite champ to play). When my team asked what I wanted, if told them, they'd ban it. I'm probably the cause behind half of all Season 4 Viktor bans pre-rework.

Can I get around this? Sure, I could always just lie, but that undermines the whole idea of teamwork.

Also, if you know how to set up runes and build it, Jungle Braum has been really good this entire season. Not my fault folks don't trust me. :p

113 Comments

LiveYiOrDieHardNov 5, 201525 votes

Riot is heavily enforcing the meta-sheep mentality nowadays, unfortunately. This new champ select is just another step in that direction. Conform with what your 4 teammates want you to play or else you're a troll... And if you actually use your pick intent to show what off-meta champ you're going to play, they'll ban it and believe they're in the right, while calling you a troll.

{quoted}

I think lying should be a bannable offense (for obvious reasons), and while I personally sympathize with your concerns, I can empathize with the other players who just want something reliable that much more. For a lot of people Ranked is really important and SADLY not a place to have fun or try to be off-meta. I'm not saying these people are right, but they are people and shouldn't be ignored. Also, you can always just prove how strong Jungle Braum is in normal games. Anywho, +1 for controversy.

They can pick their own damn champions, they can't pick mine. Not yet at least.

YumaS2AstralNov 5, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I think lying should be a bannable offense (for obvious reasons), and while I personally sympathize with your concerns, I can empathize with the other players who just want something reliable that much more. For a lot of people Ranked is really important and SADLY not a place to have fun or try to be off-meta. I'm not saying these people are right, but they are people and shouldn't be ignored. Also, you can always just prove how strong Jungle Braum is in normal games. Anywho, +1 for controversy.

You can be an off-meta in ranked, but only if you are already used to whathever you want to play on ranked. I always do that. For example, I play AD Fizz in ranked because I already have hundreds of games with him, I have full awareness of what I can do, what should I do, and when to pick AD Fizz. The result is that I have a very high winrate with him because not only I know how to play him, but people don't know how to counter him.

(AD Fizz is no longer a meta pick. Since the last nerfs, people stopped using him AD entirely. However, I still use him as an AD off-tank at top lane. I've even found a way to compensate for the W nerfs, but not for the ult nerfs)

And for that same reason I don't play Master Yi mid/top. I don't have a lot of idea on how to play him in lane, I would be easily beaten, even though I am already accustomed to use Yi (but only on the jungle).

There is nothing wrong in going off meta. The problem is when you use something that you don't have idea how to play. However, this rule applies to meta picks anyway (I don't play Riven even though she is meta, I don't know how to play her properly) - It is just that people sadly associate the idea of going with a off-meta pick with trolling or not knowing how to use that pick.

Tentacle LoveNov 6, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Riot is heavily enforcing the meta-sheep mentality nowadays, unfortunately...

You're not the first person I've seen mentioning this but I want to call it into question.

There are 4 sources of income on summoner's rift. Top, Mid, Bot, and Jungle. There is a fifth role, support.

That's not the meta, that's the design of the map.

The meta is tanky top, mage mid, adc bot, flex (preferred) jungle, and hopefully roaming support (alistar, lulu, annie, etc)

You'll note that the roles do not specify anything about the build or damage type. It just points to one of the income sources or specifies that you're the odd one out.

I don't consider that enforcing the meta. But I am curious, why's there such a harsh negative reaction to even the perception of it?

OyddAWqJ5rNov 6, 20152 votes

Well you can still do it. Just now when you pick your favorite off-meta main into any team comp regardless of team comp your team can try their best to advise you otherwise.

As usual, just ignore all the "that champ isn't viable" comments they give you. This is just a way for your team to know what ur gonna pick before you instantly shove your giant meta-breaking @#$% in their face as last pick.

Illâoi Evê SiônNov 5, 201510 votes

I think lying should be a bannable offense (for obvious reasons), and while I personally sympathize with your concerns, I can empathize with the other players who just want something reliable that much more. For a lot of people Ranked is really important and SADLY not a place to have fun or try to be off-meta. I'm not saying these people are right, but they are people and shouldn't be ignored. Also, you can always just prove how strong Jungle Braum is in normal games. Anywho, +1 for controversy.

SmitemuffinNov 5, 201515 votes

Well the thing is, I jungle Braum because of how reliable it is. With armor seals, attack speed marks/quints/glyphs (yes, all of them), you have 0.95 attack spees at level 1. Then I build this:

item 3933 item 3047 item 3091

Decently fast clear, good ganks, excellent 2v2 and 1v1s. Getting Sated is a piece of cake

Archon XNov 5, 20153 votes

jungle Braum is a troll pick

SmitemuffinNov 5, 20158 votes

Heresy. He does everything a good jungler does and he gets alot of mileage off some pretty cheap items.

If you need to stall the frontline for a high dps mage, it's pretty effective.

Archon XNov 5, 20152 votes

not to be rude, but what did you bring to the table this game as jungle Braum with devourer:

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1959188938/43338193?tab=stats

you had 1/5th the damage of Vayne

not saying you're bad or anything, just Braum isn't a jungler

SmitemuffinNov 5, 201520 votes

Look at her score: 19/7/6. Look at Viktor's: 14/6/8. And that's against a Hecarim and Rammus diving them, a Jinx and Brand to ult over and a Blitz to try and pull someone out. You can tell by our Jax's high cs that he was off in a splitpush all game.

I was in the enemy team's way at almost every moment of the game. I jammed up that frontline so much that Vayne was popping stun after stun. I was ripping apart mag res so Viktor's greatest effort was smugly saying "No Mr Bond, I expect you to die."

My my two little DPS bots (literally for Viktor) got to sit snug as little bugs while I shielded, fissured, slowed and stunned. I may not have done a ton of damage, but I sure as hell caused a lot of it. ( :3

KingKong2350Nov 6, 20155 votes

Dude you shut down Archon X so hard right there

SasogwaNov 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Archon X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=69UEzucz,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-05T14:38:00.893+0000)

not to be rude, but what did you bring to the table this game as jungle Braum with devourer:

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1959188938/43338193?tab=stats

you had 1/5th the damage of Vayne

not saying you're bad or anything, just Braum isn't a jungler

Or maybe he should have taken cinderhulk

SmitemuffinNov 5, 201511 votes

No, you clear too slow and take too long to stun. With Sated (which is easy to get using my way), auto-Q-auto will stun them.

The point to jungling Braum is to have a reliable all-around bruiser that helps your mage via MR shred and helps your ADC via multiple stuns and adding an extra threat your enemy has to deal with. If you're just going full tank, there are better picks.

Cloud PotatoNov 5, 20154 votes

I love your creativity. And Devourer + Wit's End is an underrated combo.

SpecterVonBarenNov 5, 20152 votes

Do you think Braum top could work with a Titanic Hydra rush?

SmitemuffinNov 5, 20153 votes

If you have a really easy lane opponent like DrMundo although I don't see a reason to pick it. At the same time though, it might be worth playing into anything you'd want your jungler to camp for.

If you've got a jungler like Diana Ekko Jax Kindred MasterYi Yasuo (something that autos, but you just want to get fed so it can carry) then Braum would be fine. Especially to shut down Darius or Garen who want to be in your face but can't back out if they get ganked

The Joyous QueenNov 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well the thing is, I jungle Braum because of how reliable it is. With armor seals, attack speed marks/quints/glyphs (yes, all of them), you have 0.95 attack spees at level 1. Then I build this:

Decently fast clear, good ganks, excellent 2v2 and 1v1s. Getting Sated is a piece of cake

This is why your record as jungle braum is at a 33% win rate right?

SmitemuffinNov 5, 20155 votes

No, you're looking at my winrate with Braum overall in ranked. Not my win rate with Jungle Braum.

Jungle: 1-0 Support: 0-2

Add 'em all up and you get 33%. When I got forced to jungle and needed something reliable, I picked Braum. And I won.

My total win rate with Braum jungle is probably about 50-50. I don't jungle often in ranked, seeing as how I mainly mid and all...

Zorae42Nov 5, 201510 votes

Except no. There will be people that would abuse the "lying is bannable offense" just to be jerks.

I felt like playing Sona sup (to see how hard the changes hit her), so I picked her as my intent. I started messing with my masteries and finished just as the intent timer ran out. And no one had picked a tank and our adc wanted to play Kog'Maw. So when it came time to actually pick, I went with Braum instead. And while that was a reasonable decision, if it was a bannable offense a troll could get me banned for doing it. And you can't say, "Well only ban them if they pick off meta champs afterwards" because picking off meta champs is not a bannable offense.

I think we should be able to leave at the pick intent screen without repercussions or losing our queue spot. The same way you can currently decide not to join a team in team builder. That way off meta people wont feel bad for letting people know their intentions, and you wont get stuck with a comp that isn't right for the character you want to play.

Illâoi Evê SiônNov 5, 20152 votes

I was thinking more along the lines of "I want to play Jinx". And then getting Thresh Marksman in a ranked match. I love Thresh Marksman, he's fun, but extremely unreliable and that is something a lot of players don't want in Ranked. Other offenses would be "I want to play X Champion of this role" and then taking a completely opposite role. If this happens, you would want to be able to report the player, right? Isn't reporting (actual) champion select trolls something everyone wants?

MathbalnaseNov 5, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Other offenses would be "I want to play X Champion of this role" and then taking a completely opposite role.

If the team needs someone in that role more than in the originally 'intended' role (due to bans, enemy picks, or anything else), and doesn't have one, and no one else is obviously or explicitly stated to be planning to fill that gap themselves, then why would you ever want to disincentivize someone filling that gap with a ban threat?

Illâoi Evê SiônNov 5, 20151 votes

So if someone's intent is "Jinx Marksman" and then runs Rammus filling the Marksman role, you wouldn't want to report that?

MathbalnaseNov 5, 20156 votes

If someone's intent was 'jinx marksman' and then ends up filling in for tank with rammus, I wouldn't want to report that.

If someone's intent was 'jinx marksman' and then ends up not being able to play jinx, whether it be due to bans, counters, or an unsuitable ally teamcomp, they obviously need to pick a different champ, and while I wouldn't have much confidence in Rammus' ability to succeed as an adc, out-of-meta picks are not, have never been, and should never be punishable offenses.

GeneralWigNov 5, 20152 votes

No. You missed the question here. Summoner 5 has marked Jinx for their intent (and has last pick). The other 4 players fall in around this and leave the ADC spot open. Then, instead of picking Jinx Summoner 5 select Rammus (or some other non-ADC champ). This will be the new way to troll. People will expect you to play to the team and you can just screw up the team comp.

MathbalnaseNov 5, 20154 votes

Equivalent deceptions can already take place in the live ranked environment.

Changing your mind is not a punishable offense (and neither is an off-meta pick, not even 'adc rammus'), and while I do believe that deliberately deceiving your own team should be punishable, I see no way to implement that for this scenario without catching an unacceptable number of innocent players in the same net.

Zorae42Nov 5, 20155 votes

Except taking Thresh marksman isn't currently a bannable offense. Picking off meta picks is not bannable. So just changing your mind shouldn't be either. All they accomplished by lying is preventing the rest of their team from being spiteful and banning Thresh and delaying the flaming they were potentially going to get for a few seconds. Not like they did anything really horrible.

Not sure what you mean by completely opposite role. If someone gets assigned sup and then says "mid or feed" once in select, then that should be bannable and is a different issue entirely.

TDubHNov 5, 20156 votes

No, you're marking your intent, not your choice, you're not lying if you intended to pick sona, BECAUSE YOU DID, up until the point where you realized that braum was a better pick

Zorae42Nov 5, 20155 votes

Yes, but you can't really prove intent (at least here). The only thing you could check is if the person picked the champ they said they were (provided it wasn't banned). Which would punish anyone who changed their mind.

You can't prove that someone never intended to play the champ they said they intended to play. Even if they make a radically different/off meta pick. Maybe they intended to play a meta champ but after seeing the bans/enemy selections they thought they could get away with an off-meta pick. You can't prove otherwise unless they admit it in chat (and ifnwas bannable then they wouldn't).

DeynaTaggerungNov 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I think lying should be a bannable offense (for obvious reasons), and while I personally sympathize with your concerns, I can empathize with the other players who just want something reliable that much more. For a lot of people Ranked is really important and SADLY not a place to have fun or try to be off-meta. I'm not saying these people are right, but they are people and shouldn't be ignored. Also, you can always just prove how strong Jungle Braum is in normal games. Anywho, +1 for controversy.

Ranked is a great place to have fun and be off meta...if you know what you're doing with it. Take for example Heisendong who is a master level Heimerdinger main(Heimerdinger every lane). He's not following anything meta at all but he jas experience on that champ and how to play through everything so it's ok to do. Similar to him a lot of people know their off-meta playstyles better than their meta ones and so it's ok that they play those champs. If you're really worried about it then you can look them up on op.gg and see if they're purposefully using that champ as a troll or are actually ok-pretty good on them.

I play zyra mid and it works pretty great because I understand her as a champ whereas I couldn't just pick up azir or viktor.

Illâoi Evê SiônNov 6, 20153 votes

I see no problem with this. I love playing Aatrox Support, for example. But the majority of players in ranked do not want this, and picking an off-meta champion will usually end up with at least 2 players on your team wanting to forfeit at 20 right from the start.

DeynaTaggerungNov 6, 20152 votes

Well that's not a good reason for you to pick up their attitude as well

High5Nov 5, 20159 votes

Wrong reason to be worried. Intent implies not being able to counter pick or understand the draft process.

Having your mind set on a champion before seeing what the other team picks is a terrible strategy.

We don't need more systems. We need smarter players.

HentRexNov 5, 20154 votes

Would be better if it where what type of champ you want to play. Show the role you want not the champ. BUT, this is to allow discussion pre-champ select. Intent is not set in stone. Only thing is whether or not people will adjust their picks when the situation calls for it. In higher elo I'm sure they will, in lower elo I'm sure they won't.

S H A Y C 0Nov 5, 20151 votes

its a shame that you never thought of adapting at all during the draft as a possibility. As position x, before any champions are drafted you are already thinking you want to play a certain champion. how is sharing this information at all bad? enemy picks something that changes your pick...hover something else and adapt. or as you have clearly chosen, remain stubborn, closed minded, negative, and unyielding in your static choice for the match and then blame everyone else around you for the inevitable loss. To quote Kung Pao "Should have gone with A" -Master Tang

SmitemuffinNov 5, 20152 votes

That's fine and all, if you're in a position not totally thrown into upheaval by whatever patch we're on. But if you're say, top lane? There's only two categories right now:

Perma Banned:

If you try and pick anything else, it's qq city. I feel awful for tops right now

S H A Y C 0Nov 5, 20152 votes

that has nothing to do with pick intent....

SmitemuffinNov 5, 20151 votes

Yes it does. If you pick anything outside that narrow group, you run the risk of it just getting banned with the only current non-juggernaut ban open.

NumotNov 5, 20152 votes

Someone apparently didn't bother to read the rest of the changes. Yes, pick intent could be a huge problem if they didn't change the way bans are done aswell. Did you miss the part about the 3 bans being distributed and not going to first pick anymore? If one person did all 3 bans yeah we could see this issue a lot, but 3 different people each ban one champ and most people have that one champ they really don't want to play against and will ban. You can't ban the champ you hate to play against most and have 2 extra bans to do whatever with now. They fixed your issue already

SmitemuffinNov 5, 20152 votes

False. It makes the problem worse. It increases the risk of it happening from 1 stranger out of 4 to 3 out of 4.

And now there's also the risk of "You banned my champ?! Now I'll ban yours!" And don't act like it won't happen

NumotNov 5, 20153 votes

Actually it doesn't, you ever notice when you ask your team what they want banned they don't all say the same champ? Most people have that one champ they always want banned. With how you seem so sure this will happen leads me to believe you are the type that's going to intentionally ban a teammates champ since the only way you can be as sure of it as you are is if you do it. In all of my games everyone has something they don't want to fight

SmitemuffinNov 5, 20152 votes

Just to be absolutely clear, this is the League of Legends forum.

I Miss CannonNov 5, 20152 votes

Irelia, Rumble, Vladimir Just to name three picks that don't get banned and are pretty strong. Just with what kind of retards do you play that ban the champions you wanna play...

AxxlonNov 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=ToiletteOfDoom ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=69UEzucz,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2015-11-05T15:49:08.828+0000)

its a shame that you never thought of adapting at all during the draft as a possibility.

It's an even bigger shame that you never even considered other champions' strengths.

S H A Y C 0Nov 6, 20152 votes

pick intent has nothing to do with champion strengths, actual picks or counter picks..for the love of all things good in this world why can no one understand that? pick intent is the same as saying "Tryndamere top pref" in the lobby chat. what the actual F does that have to do with champion strength????

SpoofghoulNov 5, 20152 votes

I agree with this but OP's point is more that his prefeered picks might get banned just because someone else doesnt want him to play it.

He is a bit scared of the meta sheeple gestapo

GeneralWigNov 5, 20154 votes

They should add something that makes it so if someone on your team tries to ban a champ you had picked for your "intent" you get to allow it or disallow it.

Meep ManNov 5, 20153 votes

You are overthinking it. Majority of people I know and have played with on the PBE (which is full of Que Dodgers and such) dont give a crap about who you play. It only matters if you are Bard for some reason.

TurquoiseYoshiNov 6, 20153 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0CPT1oDpIM

Zair UmbrasNov 6, 20152 votes

The new team builder is what I'm guessing you're meaning. You don't actually show your intent or even tell your allies. You get in and it tells you where you're going, usually your primary role you picked, then everyone can CHOOSE to show what champ they're going to use or about what they're going to use. So far on the PBE, I haven't had any of my picks banned even when they're completely off the wall like Soraka Jungle. I can see Live being a bit more butthurt about it all, but you don't HAVE to show what champion you're going to use. There's no penalty for not showing it.

Usually BlueFeb 2, 20162 votes

10/10 Agree. Had several of my picks stolen/banned by groups on my team who don't want me to get my intended pick. It's disheartening and immediately inhibits any possibility of solidarity.