The Guinsoo changes trash the items for the champs who use it most right now, why complain?

Moody P··5 votes·2,441 views

Calling this new Rageblade damage creep is absurd and laughable. The champions who currently use the item (Yi, Varus, Vayne, Kog, Kai'sa) are losing an immense amount of damage from the loss of both the scaling AD/AP per stack and the AD/AP ratios added to the on-hit damage. 15% hybrid pen doesn't even come close to competing especially with the raw squishy-killing power that these guys were gunning for. It's more of a compensation if anything, so that it can at least retain some degree of tank DPSing that it'd be losing without all that raw damage.

What this change does is shift the item into actually being an on-hit item and not a "get fucking everything you want" item. At the expense of its raw power (and it objectively has lost a ton of power, at least on its best users), the item now opens up to champions who previously didn't make enough use of the above stat boosts to justify the purchase. Now that Guinsoo is almost entirely about its on-hit damage, the item's now going to open up to a lot more champions, many of which are bruisers who enjoy on-hits but can't dedicate more than a few slots to them. Shyvana, Volibear, Nocturne, Xin come to mind, as well as potentially new off-builds for Warwick, etc.

I'd like Riot to keep an eye out on Jax in particular here, since he's already an S tier champion as far as soloQ is concerned, but these Rageblade changes are very good and should not be nearly as controversial as they turned out being. This is actually a fairly big power down to damage creep, so you should appreciate the change now that Kai'Sa isn't going to start deleting you with tons of on-hits that she barely built.

8 Comments

Tormentula2 votes

I just can't figure out who this is designed for.

Yea its an overall nerf to champs that rely on it.. but really tho idk why the penetration is even there. Have to remember its armor AND magic penetration, so mixed damage dealers actually get even stronger and harder to itemize against while champs that are not mixed or do not require penetration get hit. To me it looks like the strongest users are the ones getting buffed and the weaker ones are getting nerfed by this change.

Kaisa's Q, passive, and W hurt more now with the added penetration. MasterYi just uses it for extra on hits with his true damage E and double attack passive Kayle why do I have a funny feeling they're changing it just for her upcoming rework.. sounds great on current kayle. KogMaw Already does %health damage and his Q shreds armor and MR, this will either buff him to uncounterable levels (less resistances and tons of %health on-hits) or leave him as is because he's only gaining what he already has. Jax too squishy to use it anyway, he wants to build a bit more like a diver then a duelist, since his diver builds do a ton of damage anyway so trading off tankiness for more damage with guinsoo's sounds meh. Shyvana sounds like a possibility since she is mixed damage, could use the extra attacks for her E on-hit, and penetration will make her W and E hurt more. Varus Did somebody say armor penetration on a caster without losing out on a DPS build? Vayne meh

Guinsoos is never going to be healthy until they rework the guinsoo's rage passive. Losing out on a bit of on-hit damage I don't think really is going to change much, maybe an extra auto attack is needed now when factoring in the penetration, since majority of the damage was from the % on-hit damage of BoTrk, nashor's, and spread damage through runaan's.

AirKingNeo1 votes

uh the how does it sound great on kayle? I lost 10% AP onhit and I lose gaining % AP on stack.

Tormentula1 votes

{quoted}

uh the how does it sound great on kayle? I lost 10% AP onhit and I lose gaining % AP on stack.

Kayle gets magic penetration now, her typical builds usually don't carry it item 3124 item 3115 item 3006 item 3091 item 3157 item 3089 so she relies on MR shred. Now she'll have shred + %penetration for late game MR stackers. Losing the % AP on it doesn't really matter because it was only gaining 2.5% AP on a champ that relies on nashor's and 25 AP guinsoo's to begin with, low numbers until late game. Think of the penetration in kayle's case being roughly the same damage as all that 2.5% would've gave until deathcap (if you do buy it).

Seems great on her because now MR does almost nothing against her, especially if you option for a void staff build now that stacking penetration with her is stronger.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Kayle's typical people is Nashors Rageblade Deathcap situational items. She doesn't build Zhonyas and rarely Wit's End (inefficient item).

Again, you're losing 10% AP onhit and percent AP on stack, which is worth more than 10-15% magic pen. I'll just get 40% from fucking Void Staff.

Moody P2 votes

It's really nice on Volibear. :] I can confirm from playing around with it on PBE and I'm very happy about finally having an item that lets him scale.

Alzon1 votes

Yup, it’s less of a “scale with other items” item and more of a “scale with overall damage” item. We might see odd champs pick it up late just for the pen, since it is 15% Armor/mr shred.

Alzon2 votes

Shyvana Thank Shyvana you Shyvana Riot Shyvana for Shyvana bringing Shyvana back Shyvana hybrid Shyvana pen Shyvana

Jaxusalem1 votes

imagine someone with item 3124 item 3091 item 3020 he will be dealing true damage if the enemy doesnt have any mr, that would be so amazing as a full ad comp, if u are MasterYi Jax Varus Vayne

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