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Why is Darius allowed to scale into late game?

Neriticc··2 votes·1,837 views

He pretty much destroys most top laners in lane. He destroys tanks. He destroys juggernauts. He is only countered if you play a ranged top laner. It is practically impossible to dodge Darius Q if he uses the E + W combo.

Darius is a lane bully champion that has similar scaling to Jax and Fiora. He just needs one item and 5 bleed and can solo down any champion.

He scales into the late game because of his spammable Q every 3 seconds. His E is one of the best CC abilities in the entire game. Free 35% armor penetration because why not. 230 free AD for attacking someone 5 times. And a true damage reset nuke.

Remove his bonus AD from his passive. Is the 5 bleed not enough that needs a bullshit AD steroid that basically makes him win every single trade. Lower his armor penetration to 20% max.

Stop acting like Darius isn’t a problem when he destroys all other juggernaut champions in lane while also outscaling the rest of the juggernaut roster.

No other juggernaut champion gets 230 free AD steroid. Are you fucking crazy? 230 free AD? At least make it 100 free AD at level 18 but not 230 AD. Which madman came up with such a ridiculous number. 7000 gold worth of attack damage for free for attacking someone 5 times.

13 Comments

ZackTheWaffleMan5 votes

Because he has no mobility in his kit. If you kite him, he doesn't kill you.

Also, the way to counter Darius in lane is by not fighting him. It's better to go 0/0 with poor CS than to go 0/5 with average CS.

Neriticc2 votes

Why does he need mobility when his E basically counters all melee champions? His W gives him 225 range.

Other juggernaut champions are low mobility. Some don’t even have hard CC abilities like Yorick and Illaoi. Yorick and Illaoi don’t even get one free point of AD from their kit meanwhile Darius gets 230 for attacking a tank 5 times.

Trundle Q at rank 5 only gives him 40 AD meanwhile Darius gets 40 AD at level 1 or 4 with 5 bleed.

I’ve seen Darius players build AP and get 5 bleed and have more AD than the ADC champion while troll building. I am dead fucking serious. I have seen AP Darius one shot someone with his passive AD steroid alone.

Tailypo4 votes

{quoted}

Why does he need mobility when his E basically counters all melee champions? His W gives him 225 range.

Other juggernaut champions are low mobility. Some don’t even have hard CC abilities like Yorick and Illaoi. Yorick and Illaoi don’t even get one free point of AD from their kit meanwhile Darius gets 230 for attacking a tank 5 times.

Trundle Q at rank 5 only gives him 40 AD meanwhile Darius gets 40 AD at level 1 or 4 with 5 bleed.

I’ve seen Darius players build AP and get 5 bleed and have more AD than the ADC champion while troll building. I am dead fucking serious. I have seen AP Darius one shot someone with his passive AD steroid alone.

yorick and illaoi can both hold their own against darius in lane. most top lane champs can if you know what you're doing. there are plenty of ways to counter him outright. he doesn't scale amazingly into the late game and unless he gets way ahead, he's usually not great in team fights.

ImTheJuggernauty2 votes

{quoted}

Why does he need mobility when his E basically counters all melee champions? His W gives him 225 range.

Other juggernaut champions are low mobility. Some don’t even have hard CC abilities like Yorick and Illaoi. Yorick and Illaoi don’t even get one free point of AD from their kit meanwhile Darius gets 230 for attacking a tank 5 times.

Trundle Q at rank 5 only gives him 40 AD meanwhile Darius gets 40 AD at level 1 or 4 with 5 bleed.

I’ve seen Darius players build AP and get 5 bleed and have more AD than the ADC champion while troll building. I am dead fucking serious. I have seen AP Darius one shot someone with his passive AD steroid alone.

bullshit man and you know it. Darius only gets that AD IF he hits someone 5 times, and only gets to do anything with it IF he can reach anyone after that. That bonus AD is the only thing that even keeps him relevant, as in team fights it is super easy for him to get locked down and blown to pieces, even after getting 5 stacks and even if he's built tanky items. And clearly statistics don't support your argument that darius is in some way OP. He's not. He's actually pretty fair. All of his damage is telegraphed, his success is dependent on landing abilities and building stacks, he is immobile, all of his abilities are relatively short ranged, he has a small mana pool and so DOES go oom a decent amount of the time. He also has no inherent tanky abilities, so his actually ability to tank is far below actual tanks, especially if he is unable to land Q. His scaling is actually nothing compared to fiora or jax late game, so that's a total and complete lie. If he only builds one damage item his damage is actually quite significantly impeded (he usually needs cleaver/tri plus steraks do have solid damage). His pull is on a long cooldown, especially compared to most mobility abilities and ESPECIALLY when against champs with MULTIPLE mobility spells.

I mean you try to make him sound broken but fail so miserably. As a darius main, I win games by a lot sometimes and lose by a lot sometimes, but most games I'm somewhere in the middle as far as contribution.

Yenn1 votes

{quoted}

Because he has no mobility in his kit. If you kite him, he doesn't kill you.

Also, the way to counter Darius in lane is by not fighting him. It's better to go 0/0 with poor CS than to go 0/5 with average CS.

Unfortunately, you don't need mobility in your kit when your base damage is high enough to dumpster everything, allowing you to run Ghost/Flash and just build mobility items to offset your only weakness.

The only thing keeping Darius's win rate down is how bad the people who play him are. If you look at match up statistics, you can see that he takes the wrong summoners about 30-40% of the time. He's pretty busted.

ImTheJuggernauty1 votes

{quoted}

Unfortunately, you don't need mobility in your kit when your base damage is high enough to dumpster everything, allowing you to run Ghost/Flash and just build mobility items to offset your only weakness.

The only thing keeping Darius's win rate down is how bad the people who play him are. If you look at match up statistics, you can see that he takes the wrong summoners about 30-40% of the time. He's pretty busted.

That can be said of many champs....How many players on ANY champ take optimal runes or itemization...terrible argument because you're looking at darius in isolation without any consideration of the picture as a whole. Also, when's the last time you saw darius relevant in pro play? Long time ago. Was only truly relevant around the time of the juggernaut rework, and even then he was a middling pick. IN solo play he's maintained about a 49-51% off and on while wavering between decent and high play rate. Considering he's a middling champ as far as skill goes, these suggest pretty fair winrates.

Yenn1 votes

{quoted}

That can be said of many champs....How many players on ANY champ take optimal runes or itemization...terrible argument because you're looking at darius in isolation without any consideration of the picture as a whole. Also, when's the last time you saw darius relevant in pro play? Long time ago. Was only truly relevant around the time of the juggernaut rework, and even then he was a middling pick. IN solo play he's maintained about a 49-51% off and on while wavering between decent and high play rate. Considering he's a middling champ as far as skill goes, these suggest pretty fair winrates.

Ignoring that he's a top tier pick with 25% ban rate at Diamond+, sure, good post, you definitely know what you're talking about.

> How many players on ANY champ take optimal runes or itemization

Turns out most above Diamond, unless they're Darius players.

You can look at his Kennen match up as an example.

He has 49% overall win rate. If he takes Ghost, his win rate increases to 51%. If he takes Phase Rush and Ghost, his win rate increases to 55%.

Darius with Ghost + Phase Rush dumpsters Kennen, but it's only taken less than 10% of the time. If you look at other champions, you won't see this weird pattern of them using builds that perform poorly when there is a significantly used alternative with much higher win rate.

Taldionimt1 votes

{quoted}

Because he has no mobility in his kit. If you kite him, he doesn't kill you.

Also, the way to counter Darius in lane is by not fighting him. It's better to go 0/0 with poor CS than to go 0/5 with average CS.

no mobility? Ghost and Phage item... built in every single game. No mobility my ass.

Keiaga3 votes

Juggernauts doing damage, not being able to catch people, and taking a lot of damage is just what juggernauts do. I don't have any reliable data for specific matchups, but just from what I remember, I almost always beat Darius playing Mordekaiser and it really seems like a skill match up between him and any other juggernaut, minus Nasus

ImTheJuggernauty1 votes

{quoted}

Juggernauts doing damage, not being able to catch people, and taking a lot of damage is just what juggernauts do. I don't have any reliable data for specific matchups, but just from what I remember, I almost always beat Darius playing Mordekaiser and it really seems like a skill match up between him and any other juggernaut, minus Nasus

Exactly. Illaoi, urgot, aatrox (prenerfs aatrox stomped darius hard) all do decent against darius. Garen can if the player is really careful.

Xavanic2 votes

I've beaten darius with lots of melee champs Ornn Kled Jax Sylas Volibear Nasus Warwick are just some examples of melee's i've beat him with top, a lot of it is based on whether you avoid the blade of his Q or not, since w/o landing Q he loses a lot of his dueling potential, as he loses a stack of bleed, he loses his heal, he loses his highest damage ability, overall darius is very beatable, you just need to skill to do it, and not duel him around 6 when he has his strongest power spike, however, if he gets far enough ahead of you, he tends to feel impossible to beat due to his natural beefiness and high overall damage

ImTheJuggernauty1 votes

{quoted}

I've beaten darius with lots of melee champs Ornn Kled Jax Sylas Volibear Nasus Warwick are just some examples of melee's i've beat him with top, a lot of it is based on whether you avoid the blade of his Q or not, since w/o landing Q he loses a lot of his dueling potential, as he loses a stack of bleed, he loses his heal, he loses his highest damage ability, overall darius is very beatable, you just need to skill to do it, and not duel him around 6 when he has his strongest power spike, however, if he gets far enough ahead of you, he tends to feel impossible to beat due to his natural beefiness and high overall damage

Heck, I've lost to really good shens who pick AFTER me in the champ select because they know they can beat me early with taunt/dash, aoe no AA zone, and decent early game dueling damage. Some people even pick malphite into me, do ok in lane, then proceed to help their teams a ton with ulty.

NemeBro1 votes

{quoted}

Darius is a lane bully champion that has similar scaling to Jax and Fiora.

I actually lol'd. Darius not only does not outscale those champions late game, but in the case of Jax at least he actually beats him.

Try to 1v1 a Jax or Fiora when you're both six-slotted as Darius and they'll rip you a new asshole. Hell, fight them while you're six-slotted and they only have five items and they'll still probably beat you.

And in team fights Darius gets kited, and due to his lack of in-built tankiness he gets shredded by the ADC and dies. His main value comes from his resets with his dunk, but he's not nearly as powerful as an actual late game champion. Darius' team fight power late game is far below that of a Vladimir or a Camille. And he's far inferior splitpushing against the likes of the aforementioned Jax, Fiora, or something like a Tryndamere.

As far as other juggernauts go, these champions outscale Darius:

Nasus Udyr DrMundo Trundle

Of those, at least three of them (Nasus, Udyr, and Trundle) can duel him late game and are more useful in general. Shyvana, Yorick, and maybe Mordekaiser (not played enough of) can also duel him late game. Yorick at least usually beats him in lane.

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