Why doesn’t Yasuo shield flow reset if he takes damage from enemy champions?

Neriticc·Sep 7, 2019·54 votes·16,546 views

So it works like Malzahar shield. Malzahar shield breaks if he gets hit by an enemy champion, epic monster or large monster (blue and red buff) but Malzahar cannot rebuild back his shield, unless he doesn’t take damage for an X amount of time and if he does take damage the shield is reset.

Now Yasuo has a permanent shield with 0 counterplay. In the late game that is like a 600 shield for free every few seconds because it is so easy to charge it. Yasuo shield flow charge doesn’t even reset if he takes damage so basically he gets a windwall and a self shield that has 0 counterplay that will block 600 damage for free without risking anything.

75 Comments

Zed geniusSep 7, 201916 votes

Now Yasuo has a permanent shield with 0 counterplay

Idk the "proc the passive with any ranged auto attack or ability and then all in" seems like quite clear counterplay to me

Akali is SO HOTSep 9, 20192 votes

No the correct counterplay is to use all of your abilities into windwall first and then post about it on boards

Zed geniusSep 9, 20191 votes

true

DotaFrostSep 7, 201911 votes

Because yasuo... is a melee champion and 80% of mid lane champs are range. If his shield resets everytime he takes damage than he might as well as not have any shield at all.

Tuition FeeSep 7, 201915 votes

{quoted}

Because yasuo... is a melee champion and 80% of mid lane champs are range. If his shield resets everytime he takes damage than he might as well as not have any shield at all.

But he shouldn't be able to infinitely sustain himself in lane, block an entire kit, dash a million times, ult while rooted, have no mana costs, AND be strong enough to kill anyone the moment he gets on top of them lvl 3 or 2. He's supposed to be a late game carry, but right now he has so much fking wave clear, a stupid windwall and his shield that for some reason lasts for a while longer after the initial first hit that there really isn't a down side to his laning phase unless you're brand new at Yasuo or are getting camped.

Even then, his come back ability is so insane that a 3/11 Yasuo can easily pick up two kills during a teamfight and then delete your entire team.

DotaFrostSep 7, 20192 votes

Im an ahri main man.... like i get the frustration. I almost destroyed my keyboard many times facing a yasuo. I can guarantee you ive crushed many yasuo and gotten crushed by many too. Fighting a good yasuo is so exciting and i love it. You need to learn his limitation and not be intimidated. I suggest watch some diamond/master stream on how to face him. Yes his kit is annoying but i myself tried to be a yasuo main once and boy it's hard. Like what champ to you play when you mid? Some champ can easily beat yasuo and some others you need to work around his windwall and passive.

Tuition FeeSep 7, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Im an ahri main man.... like i get the frustration. I almost destroyed my keyboard many times facing a yasuo. I can guarantee you ive crushed many yasuo and gotten crushed by many too. Fighting a good yasuo is so exciting and i love it. You need to learn his limitation and not be intimidated. I suggest watch some diamond/master stream on how to face him. Yes his kit is annoying but i myself tried to be a yasuo main once and boy it's hard. Like what champ to you play when you mid? Some champ can easily beat yasuo and some others you need to work around his windwall and passive.

I also main Ahri. Fighting a good Yasuo isn't exciting, especially when they know how to control wave and not get baited by your auto/w. If they can do those two things, I usually roam. A good Yasuo out sustains Ahri, especially if he knows how to pull out your Q then e to the side to avoid incoming damage. Yasuo is annoying in the fact that he has so much outplay potential and so many opportunities for forms of skill expression that the moment you're proficient with him, your kit allows you to juke too many things.

youngdragoSep 7, 20197 votes

Bro I’m sick of people listing attributes of a champion that are good to make it seem like the champion is broken. It’s lazy and overdone. It completely ignores all the bad things about a champion. Like how Yasuo is one of the easiest champion to gank. Or how he has no escape outside the enemy’s midland. Or how any for if cc basically spells death for yasuo. He’s more or less a Melee adc which means mid games is the worst time for him. Please I understand yasuo is annoying but let’s not come up with dumb ideas like having the flow meter reset every time he takes damage. The way his shield is now that would throw yasuo in the dumbster. And buffing the shield would just lead to him being some weird top lane bully.

Tuition FeeSep 7, 20196 votes

{quoted}

Bro I’m sick of people listing attributes of a champion that are good to make it seem like the champion is broken. It’s lazy and overdone. It completely ignores all the bad things about a champion. Like how Yasuo is one of the easiest champion to gank. Or how he has no escape outside the enemy’s midland. Or how any for if cc basically spells death for yasuo. He’s more or less a Melee adc which means mid games is the worst time for him. Please I understand yasuo is annoying but let’s not come up with dumb ideas like having the flow meter reset every time he takes damage. The way his shield is now that would throw yasuo in the dumbster. And buffing the shield would just lead to him being some weird top lane bully.

If you want someone who is an easy champ to gank, look at Ashe, Zoe, lane Udyr, Miss Fortune, Varus, Kog'Maw, pre-rework Morde. What do most of them have in common? They're ADCs, who do a shit ton of DPS. You yourself said Yasuo is like a melee ADC. In that case, is it not fair that he should be "easy to gank"? As a matter of fact, Yasuo actually isn't too easy to gank if you play your cards right. For example, many junglers rely on a skillshot to engage, such as Amumu's Q, Nidalee's Q, Lee Sin Q. If you windwall these, they can't touch you. Also, I'd like to point out a skilled Yasuo can also outplay the jungler + laner if there are enemy minions present by dodging everything using E.
It's not lazy and overdone to list good attributes of a champion, and I did not ignore his weakness. I clearly stated Yasuo is not good if you're brand new to the champion, and is gankable. As for it seeming "overdone and lazy", this does not discredit my argument but only your own, because you choose to attack my argument's supposed unoriginality and laziness, thus in my opinion, is invoking the Ad Hominem fallacy. My argument is not that the champion doesn't have weaknesses, as I have previously mentioned; he is gankable, and not the easiest, but lies in the fact that his strengths completely negate his supposed weak early game.
He can block most forms of cc with his wind wall. "But it has a high CD!" Just don't approach the enemy while it's down, or use your E to dodge incoming cc. This also forgets that the enemy also has CD; early game, Yasuo's windwall's CD is 26s. Let's pretend his matchup is Ahri; her only cc ability takes 12s to recharge. It's not hard to play safe for 15s.
Please elaborate on what you mean when you mentioned "the enemy's midland".

Crescent DuskSep 7, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tuition Fee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8TIEFbpJ,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-07T14:30:35.789+0000)

If you want someone who is an easy champ to gank, look at Ashe, Zoe, lane Udyr, Miss Fortune, Varus, Kog'Maw, pre-rework Morde. What do most of them have in common? They're ADCs, who do a shit ton of DPS. You yourself said Yasuo is like a melee ADC. In that case, is it not fair that he should be "easy to gank"? As a matter of fact, Yasuo actually isn't too easy to gank if you play your cards right. For example, many junglers rely on a skillshot to engage, such as Amumu's Q, Nidalee's Q, Lee Sin Q. If you windwall these, they can't touch you. Also, I'd like to point out a skilled Yasuo can also outplay the jungler + laner if there are enemy minions present by dodging everything using E.

It's not lazy and overdone to list good attributes of a champion, and I did not ignore his weakness. I clearly stated Yasuo is not good if you're brand new to the champion, and is gankable. As for it seeming "overdone and lazy", this does not discredit my argument but only your own, because you choose to attack my argument's supposed unoriginality and laziness, thus in my opinion, is invoking the Ad Hominem fallacy. My argument is not that the champion doesn't have weaknesses, as I have previously mentioned; he is gankable, and not the easiest, but lies in the fact that his strengths completely negate his supposed weak early game.

He can block most forms of cc with his wind wall. "But it has a high CD!" Just don't approach the enemy while it's down, or use your E to dodge incoming cc. This also forgets that the enemy also has CD; early game, Yasuo's windwall's CD is 26s. Let's pretend his matchup is Ahri; her only cc ability takes 12s to recharge. It's not hard to play safe for 15s.

Please elaborate on what you mean when you mentioned "the enemy's midland".

Zoe is most definitely not easy to gank unless she's a vegetable. She's got a 70% sprint, a likely summoner flash or slow smite when engaged on by the enemy jungler, and her bubble which is a guaranteed peel at melee range while delaying with her ult and juking skillshots with it. I pick Nocturne precisely to deal with her bullshit.

For Yasuo I just pick something like Warwick/Vi/Nocturne and he gets dumpstered as well. Even Volibear does pretty well against Yasuo (though even better WITH him due to the easy ults). Won't even mention the obvious choice of Rammus as a complete hardcounter to Yasuo. Nunu does really well too if he knows how to snowball, and scales really well defensively while making engagements on his team with his ult really difficult.

The problem these days is that everyone wants to play assassin jg's and nobody wants to play CC tanks except on high elo.

Chainman3Sep 8, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tuition Fee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8TIEFbpJ,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-07T14:30:35.789+0000)

If you want someone who is an easy champ to gank, look at Ashe, Zoe, lane Udyr, Miss Fortune, Varus, Kog'Maw, pre-rework Morde. What do most of them have in common? They're ADCs, who do a shit ton of DPS. You yourself said Yasuo is like a melee ADC. In that case, is it not fair that he should be "easy to gank"? As a matter of fact, Yasuo actually isn't too easy to gank if you play your cards right. For example, many junglers rely on a skillshot to engage, such as Amumu's Q, Nidalee's Q, Lee Sin Q. If you windwall these, they can't touch you. Also, I'd like to point out a skilled Yasuo can also outplay the jungler + laner if there are enemy minions present by dodging everything using E.

Not true at all. Yasuo is one of the easiest champions to gank. Due to his dash being heavily reliant on minions. For him to escape would mean minions would need to be behind him which means he'd need to be in front of the enemy minion wave. As you say wind wall helps stop the ganks from junglers reliant on a skill shot. Lee doesnt need it Nid defintely doesnt need it. Lee can W onto him and slow him. Nid will usually auto from range or cougar onto him and apply red buff. Amumu can bait out the windwall and walk around it or just straight up walk behind yasuo and pop ulti. Most junglers udyr khazix nocturne warwick nunu vi volibear zac hecarim and the list goes on and on. All arent effected by his windwall when it comes to their cc while yasuo cant dash through them without pretty much killing himself for it. So again idk what you're referring to but he's a really easy gank.

It's not lazy and overdone to list good attributes of a champion, and I did not ignore his weakness. I clearly stated Yasuo is not good if you're brand new to the champion, and is gankable. As for it seeming "overdone and lazy", this does not discredit my argument but only your own, because you choose to attack my argument's supposed unoriginality and laziness, thus in my opinion, is invoking the Ad Hominem fallacy. My argument is not that the champion doesn't have weaknesses, as I have previously mentioned; he is gankable, and not the easiest, but lies in the fact that his strengths completely negate his supposed weak early game.

You literally went in a circle here. You spent like 6 sentences explaining a fallacy. Then said "i said he has weaknesses but said weaknesses are ineffective. Then they wouldnt be weaknesses if that was the case. So what were you saying?

He can block most forms of cc with his wind wall. "But it has a high CD!" Just don't approach the enemy while it's down, or use your E to dodge incoming cc. This also forgets that the enemy also has CD; early game, Yasuo's windwall's CD is 26s. Let's pretend his matchup is Ahri; her only cc ability takes 12s to recharge. It's not hard to play safe for 15s.

I listed a bunch of junglers which he doesnt block their cc. So im going to already say that claim is disproven. Now to say dont approach the enemy when down means "give up 20 seconds of cs and lane control" whats the big issue with that right? How could that ever be a bad thing? Do you see where im going with this? Theres a lot of issues with zoning yourself from the wave for 20 seconds because your wind wall is down. Why are you assuming the ahri would throw charm into wind wall? A good ahri would hold her charm knowing wind wall is up. And if your rebuttal to that is a good yasuo will hold wind wall until ahri charms that means ahri gets free dmg onto yasuo with her Q and W and can back off with the won trade. Rinse and repeat until yasuo is either poked out of lane or dead. There you go ahri playing the lane correctly against yasuo.

Tuition FeeSep 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Not true at all. Yasuo is one of the easiest champions to gank. Due to his dash being heavily reliant on minions. For him to escape would mean minions would need to be behind him which means he'd need to be in front of the enemy minion wave. As you say wind wall helps stop the ganks from junglers reliant on a skill shot. Lee doesnt need it Nid defintely doesnt need it. Lee can W onto him and slow him. Nid will usually auto from range or cougar onto him and apply red buff. Amumu can bait out the windwall and walk around it or just straight up walk behind yasuo and pop ulti. Most junglers udyr khazix nocturne warwick nunu vi volibear zac hecarim and the list goes on and on. All arent effected by his windwall when it comes to their cc while yasuo cant dash through them without pretty much killing himself for it. So again idk what you're referring to but he's a really easy gank.

You literally went in a circle here. You spent like 6 sentences explaining a fallacy. Then said "i said he has weaknesses but said weaknesses are ineffective. Then they wouldnt be weaknesses if that was the case. So what were you saying?

I listed a bunch of junglers which he doesnt block their cc. So im going to already say that claim is disproven. Now to say dont approach the enemy when down means "give up 20 seconds of cs and lane control" whats the big issue with that right? How could that ever be a bad thing? Do you see where im going with this? Theres a lot of issues with zoning yourself from the wave for 20 seconds because your wind wall is down. Why are you assuming the ahri would throw charm into wind wall? A good ahri would hold her charm knowing wind wall is up. And if your rebuttal to that is a good yasuo will hold wind wall until ahri charms that means ahri gets free dmg onto yasuo with her Q and W and can back off with the won trade. Rinse and repeat until yasuo is either poked out of lane or dead. There you go ahri playing the lane correctly against yasuo.

Be creative. Yasuo doesn't necessarily have to use minions to get into the jungle or back to his turret (though he can if he's behind the wave), but can use it to dodge skill shots, then windwall point-and-clickers.
I spent one sentence explaining a fallacy, and I'll have to use two exposing the strawman fallacy to you. You attacked the fact that I said "He has weaknesses but said weaknesses are ineffective." Which would be an incorrect quote, because I never said that. What I said was that Yasuo is not an easy beginner champion and vulnerable to ganks, but my issues with him are that he has a strong early game despite Riot telling us he's weak in lane.
First of all, it's 12 seconds, not 20. And if you can freeze wave on your side, that doesn't matter much because you're leaving your enemy vulnerable to ganks. If it's on their side, you've got roaming opportunities/vision pressure opportunities. Also, hypothetically, if it were Ahri, if you get into W range of Yasuo, he's about 75 units away from dashing onto you, and you lock yourself into position for a tornado or for time to let him close that 75 units during your animations. Hell, it doesn't even take half a second for a Yasuo with no boots to do that. His E takes him away from the second part of your Q if he know she what's he's doing, and then he just needs to windwall your charm, or you can hold it until you're dead because he's sticking to you. Once your initial burst is down, it's nothing compared to Yasuo's dps and lockdown with ult. To lane properly, you freeze the wave on your side and call for your jungler to jump him, or hope you can surprise him with a combo and if you fail, you also "lose lane pressure" for 12s due to no charm. These are just weaknesses that every champion has in a high kill pressure lane; use your escape/bail card, and you "zone yourself from the wave".

You also don't have to approach them to soak up EXP, or to fire a nado to last hit, which you should be doing anyways if you don't have vision of the jungler, or if the enemy is decent/playing a counterpick. You also ignore the fact that he blocks most forms of engage from junglers; decent players will not allow Lee to get his slow off by positioning properly/windwalling his slow, windwalling Sej's R, block Khazix's slow, Nocturne's Q, Zac's arm, Nunu's snowball, dash out of Warwick's R, etc.

Yasuo's e can't be stopped if he's cc'd during the dash, so he could easily dash through them without "killing himself" if they've managed to get behind him, which indicates very poor map awareness and/or no wards. Also, Lee can't W on top of enemy champions.

Diana is a champ with a similar kit. She's easier to gank than Yasuo, because she as well as 142 other champions can't completely negate the effects of an unlimited amount of projectiles for a period of time.

KrypticBeingSep 9, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tuition Fee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8TIEFbpJ,comment-id=000300000001000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-08T14:06:49.784+0000)

Be creative. Yasuo doesn't necessarily have to use minions to get into the jungle or back to his turret (though he can if he's behind the wave), but can use it to dodge skill shots, then windwall point-and-clickers.

I spent one sentence explaining a fallacy, and I'll have to use two exposing the strawman fallacy to you. You attacked the fact that I said "He has weaknesses but said weaknesses are ineffective." Which would be an incorrect quote, because I never said that. What I said was that Yasuo is not an easy beginner champion and vulnerable to ganks, but my issues with him are that he has a strong early game despite Riot telling us he's weak in lane.

First of all, it's 12 seconds, not 20. And if you can freeze wave on your side, that doesn't matter much because you're leaving your enemy vulnerable to ganks. If it's on their side, you've got roaming opportunities/vision pressure opportunities. Also, hypothetically, if it were Ahri, if you get into W range of Yasuo, he's about 75 units away from dashing onto you, and you lock yourself into position for a tornado or for time to let him close that 75 units during your animations. Hell, it doesn't even take half a second for a Yasuo with no boots to do that. His E takes him away from the second part of your Q if he know she what's he's doing, and then he just needs to windwall your charm, or you can hold it until you're dead because he's sticking to you. Once your initial burst is down, it's nothing compared to Yasuo's dps and lockdown with ult. To lane properly, you freeze the wave on your side and call for your jungler to jump him, or hope you can surprise him with a combo and if you fail, you also "lose lane pressure" for 12s due to no charm. These are just weaknesses that every champion has in a high kill pressure lane; use your escape/bail card, and you "zone yourself from the wave".

You also don't have to approach them to soak up EXP, or to fire a nado to last hit, which you should be doing anyways if you don't have vision of the jungler, or if the enemy is decent/playing a counterpick. You also ignore the fact that he blocks most forms of engage from junglers; decent players will not allow Lee to get his slow off by positioning properly/windwalling his slow, windwalling Sej's R, block Khazix's slow, Nocturne's Q, Zac's arm, Nunu's snowball, dash out of Warwick's R, etc.

Yasuo's e can't be stopped if he's cc'd during the dash, so he could easily dash through them without "killing himself" if they've managed to get behind him, which indicates very poor map awareness and/or no wards. Also, Lee can't W on top of enemy champions.

Diana is a champ with a similar kit. She's easier to gank than Yasuo, because she as well as 142 other champions can't completely negate the effects of an unlimited amount of projectiles for a period of time.

Yas e can be stopped. Cant block nunu snowball. Cant stop khazix slow. Cant block lee slow. Dashing out of ww r? Are you delusional. There is no reason ww should miss r if he juat fears u. To get a nado earlyt game its every 6 seconds. Assuming u q minions within 6 seconds. if u have no burst left you really shouldnt be able to fight a dps champ.

Dabrick01Sep 8, 20191 votes

Sejuani. Sejuani. Sejuani. Sejuani.

Did I mention Sejuani.

I don't think yasuo can windwall if he's stunned to hell and back.

But yeah, Yasuo is hard to gank against a nidalee. That's why, in that case, you DON'T PICK A SKILLSHOT RELIANT JG INTO A YASUO.

The guy was right about your explanation being overdone and lazy. It's just senseless complaining when all you have to do is play smart. You have to adapt to your opponent for ANY other champ they play, but somehow yasuo is different to all this. That's because you got rekt by one and are too lazy to learn how to deal with him.

Tuition FeeSep 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Sejuani. Sejuani. Sejuani. Sejuani.

Did I mention Sejuani.

I don't think yasuo can windwall if he's stunned to hell and back.

But yeah, Yasuo is hard to gank against a nidalee. That's why, in that case, you DON'T PICK A SKILLSHOT RELIANT JG INTO A YASUO.

The guy was right about your explanation being overdone and lazy. It's just senseless complaining when all you have to do is play smart. You have to adapt to your opponent for ANY other champ they play, but somehow yasuo is different to all this. That's because you got rekt by one and are too lazy to learn how to deal with him.

This argument is lazy. Your argument completely discounts multiple scenarios, with the first part being based off of the assumption that Yasuo can't position, won't windwall Sejuani's ultimate, or stands still long enough for Sejuani to proc her stun.
You're assuming the jungler picked a skillshot champion into Yasuo.
Again, an odd assumption. Many of us here have played the game for many years, and Yasuo's consistent high ban rate is a big red flag. People can adapt to Teemo, Darius, Sion, Morgana, Malzahar, etc. But champions like Yasuo and Pyke who have incredible ban rates signify a bigger problem that just us having to not be "too lazy to learn how to deal with him".

Dabrick01Sep 9, 20191 votes

Your arguments are lazy! So don't bother calling mine so.

That's the skill that comes with any champion. Positioning and utilization of abilities to escape ganks. Would you rather yasuo have 3 untargeted dashes? That would be WAY worse than what he has now. My point was that there are ways to punish yasuo because his dash can only be used on enemies. This problem in and of itself can be solved with an easy counter pick.

I could even tell you more counter picks. Yasuo gets dumpstered by so many meta picks, there's almost no excuse to dumpster him if you can plan in champ select.

I was not assuming anything. I was talking about a specific scenario that should be avoided in champ select if possible.
Yasuo's ban rate will always be from people getting dumpstered by a Yasuo in low elo they can't control as they don't have the proper map awareness, mechanical skills, and counter pick to do so. Pyke is a very very very separate issue, as his issues have to do with his kit. Yasuo hasn't had any core kit problems since Tanksuo, rather, it is the relative balance of items he is related to and his counters and champs he counters. Of course, I understand that this is the same way that other champs ebb and flow with the overall game balance, but as Yasuo has a unique playstyle and item build, he is affected differently than the average adc.

ŠeraρhSep 9, 20192 votes

{quoted} Yasuo's ban rate will always be from people getting dumpstered by a Yasuo in low elo they can't control as they don't have the proper map awareness, mechanical skills, and counter pick to do so. Pyke is a very very very separate issue, as his issues have to do with his kit. Yasuo hasn't had any core kit problems since Tanksuo, rather, it is the relative balance of items he is related to and his counters and champs he counters.

Yasuo's ban rate isn't from people dumpstered by him in low elo. It's from people enjoying traditional mages and immobile carries being disgusted by how infuriating to play against is kit is. It's not about Yasuo being "strong" or "weak", it's about him removing your agency as a player entirely when laning against him as a mage or immobile carry.

People do not "Yasuo circlejerk" without a reason. The champion actually IS broken, and what actually saddens me reading through the Yasuo-defenders comments is that they don't realise that the three single advice they give are either :

counterpick him ( which I think intelligent people realise we can't always do due to pick order )
wait for him to fuck up
ask for your jungler to dedicate all of his efforts to ruining Yasuo's laning phase knowing he'll come back eventually anyway

I'm tired of seeing the old ass "just bait the windwall" one, because realistically, as a mage and against a decent Yasuo... you can't Yasuo's Windwall has no cast time and starts from INSIDE of him, meaning there's no single scenario where he has to use it proactively, meaning he can just hold onto it waiting for you to use your big ticket spell.

At this point, you're stuck in a scenario where

A : you try to engage, he nullifies it, and then bullies you for the next ~ 10-15 seconds
B : you hold onto your spell for all eternity, and let him farm willy nilly and outscale you

Against a competent Yasuo, you have no power over how the lane is going. Your only option is to wait for him to make a mistake, thus putting you under pressure and in a powerless state, making the first 15 minutes of the game the most unfun experience ever.

I'm also tired of those "just aa the shield away" comments. Not like autoattacking Yasuo in laning phase as a mage was just asking him to get on top of you and out trade you. Because the guy's damage isn't especially weak early game. On top of that, his CDs, apart from WW are low enough that he has no downtime ( while missing your important spells to one of his dash gives him ~ 10 seconds of total tranquility ), and lest you dare put him on the backfoot, as an AD, he has access to decent sustain in the form of fleet footwork and early lifesteal.

"But oh, but just poke him down, you're ranged !" But no. Between the shield passive and windwall, trying to poke from a safe distance before lost chapter will get you out of mana before he's out of hp. And the moment your mana is low, the lane is lost.

"But oh, but he's a squishy melee carry, you'll have better teamfight presence than him !" The thing is... again, unless he fucks up hard or one of your teammates are playing a champion Yasuo does exceptionally poorly against, so long as windwall's CD is up, you as a mage have no agency. Because when the time will come when you have a decent opportunity to unload your kill combo, the wall will come up, and here's 4 seconds of powerlessness for you. And in this burst meta, y'all know exactly how much has already happened in a teamfight. And at this point, it's not only projectile-dependant mages, but also adcs, who are denied opportunities to contribute to teamfights. A well timed WW to an adc's face WILL remove him from the fight for 4 seconds, which is a damn frigging lot of time for an adc to be inactive and a damn lot of lost damge and at some point in the game, quite possibly a lost teamfight.

"But oh, just reposition yourself" Yes of course, I'm gonna go behind the windwall as an immobile squishy champion and beg every single bruiser, assassin, or Yasuo himself to jump on me ! And of course not, sidestepping the wall didn't take me 2,5 seconds and either lose me those 2,5 seconds of dps as an adc, or the opportunity to burst their carry as a mage ! Everybody knows every adc is as mobile and slippery as Vayne , and every mage can Ahri their way towards a more interesting spot in a fight.

No, it's not about Yasuo being "weak" or "strong", it's about his play patterns totally removing agency from a whole bunch of champions, and thus making him extremely frustrating to play against whether he is overtuned or severely gutted ( which he is definitely not ).

Doctor CamilleSep 7, 20191 votes

Yasuo cant ult while rooted though

LordGeovanniSep 7, 20191 votes

Bad things about yasou..... He's not ranged gg ez

F6fireSep 7, 20191 votes

Idk what you mean by infinitely sustain, you can auto him once or just poke him with one of your abilities to pop the shield. It cant be considered sustain if a single auto attack can pop it and then let you full burst him.

Also what champions are you playing if Yasuo shield can "block a whole kit"? Because from what ive seen his shield is tiny in the early levels.

On top of that, he cant really all in you at level 2 or 3 unless youre mispositioning hard. His damage before getting crit items or at the very least more ad is nothing that special. Basically hes not Darius.

Tuition FeeSep 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Idk what you mean by infinitely sustain, you can auto him once or just poke him with one of your abilities to pop the shield. It cant be considered sustain if a single auto attack can pop it and then let you full burst him.

Also what champions are you playing if Yasuo shield can "block a whole kit"? Because from what ive seen his shield is tiny in the early levels.

On top of that, he cant really all in you at level 2 or 3 unless youre mispositioning hard. His damage before getting crit items or at the very least more ad is nothing that special. Basically hes not Darius.

Fleet footwork Yasuo is absolutely irritating. Also, if you get into 550 range of Yasuo, chances are you're going to be near an allied minion, unless you don't have any minions in lane, in which case there's almost absolutely no good reason for a skilled Yasuo to be anywhere near you during laning phase. Another scenario would be that he's got you shoved under turret, which again goes back to my point of how he's got a disproportionate amount of wave clear for a supposedly late-game champion. Also, he still shouldn't be near you, and you should be auto attacking the minions, not Yasuo.
I play Ahri, Neeko and Syndra. Did I ever say Yasuo's shield blocks an entire kit? I should clarify; his windwall blocks an entire kit/set-up, even if he mispositions.
You mean, don't stand close to your minions? His DPS in the early game is still quite strong, and combined with his E to stick onto the enemy, most mages, once they've exhausted their cc spell on his windwall, are very vulnerable to Yasuo.

Chainman3Sep 8, 20191 votes

He cant even dash a million times. Its all about managing your fights which if you're complaining about yasuo in this way you probably dont do.

PhDs NutsSep 9, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Because yasuo... is a melee champion and 80% of mid lane champs are range. If his shield resets everytime he takes damage than he might as well as not have any shield at all.

laughs in Malphite

KrypticBeingSep 9, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=PhDs Nuts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8TIEFbpJ,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2019-09-09T01:49:53.587+0000)

laughs in Malphite

but thats toplane and theres only like 3 or so ranged toplane champs. Every mid is pretty much a mage who can auto you from far.

nargnargnargSep 7, 20199 votes

Because Malz shield is a lot stronger because he gets a 90% dmg reduction buff and is immune to cc, which is a lot stronger than simply health for a shield.

HP CrookshanksSep 7, 201941 votes

At least Malzahar has only one pasive. Yasuo also gets double crit chance.

AirKingNeoSep 8, 20193 votes

and Malzahar gets a stronger ultimate. Comparing champion abilities to another without the rest of the kit for context is nonsense.

Sinister AnubisSep 8, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=HP Crookshanks,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8TIEFbpJ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-07T10:17:05.941+0000)

At least Malzahar has only one pasive. Yasuo also gets double crit chance.

Malz passive acts like 2 as well. He blocks damage and cc if the ability is the same like say morg Q where yasuo only blocks damage.

Hot LeBlanc YuriSep 8, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=HP Crookshanks,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8TIEFbpJ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-07T10:17:05.941+0000)

At least Malzahar has only one pasive. Yasuo also gets double crit chance.

And armour pen.

King BraumSep 7, 201932 votes

Thats because Malzahar is an immobile DoT Mage that actually really needs a passive like that to even survive.

Yasuo on the other hand has free low cooldown mobility build into his kit, a shield and a windwall. All while being a fast low cooldown burst champion.

Crescent DuskSep 7, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Because Malz shield is a lot stronger because he gets a 90% dmg reduction buff and is immune to cc, which is a lot stronger than simply health for a shield.

Not even remotely. Malzahar's shield is a fraction of the uptime of Yasuo's, and Malz's early game and mana costs are atrocious, he needs to be able to hit lost chapter by 6 and if you delay him by abusing his abysmal lv1-5, he becomes a useless champ.

Hell, even by just buying QSS he becomes a useless champ as he's totally immobile, has garbage burst, and needs heavy scaling into late game to do any damage while being easily dove.

If the enemy laner has a brain cell and just autos your voidlings, which get 1-2 shot by autoattacks, malzahar has zero waveclear whatsoever. He's an incredibly abusable champ.

SweedishGunnerSep 7, 20191 votes

Voidlings are always killed in one auto attack regardless (just a small correction).

Crescent DuskSep 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Voidlings are always killed in one auto attack regardless (just a small correction).

I thought as much. They're a total garbage skill that only comes in use against the type of people who complain about vladimir/sylas/aatrox who don't buy bramble vest or the kind who complain about mordekaiser/malzahar/warwick but don't buy QSS>scimitar.

I really hope he gets revisited as a champ because all he is is a pubstomper.

5050BSSep 7, 20197 votes

Yep more Yasuo shit design.

FeloFloFloSep 7, 20195 votes

Malzahar is ranged. He can just pussy under his tower and yasuo can't

ModAcademy KaynSep 7, 20195 votes

I mean, if I wanted to not spend a lot of time on this, and just post the simplest reasoning that's all that is really needed to be said.

It's because they're two different champions with their own strengths and weaknesses. Seriously, stop comparing shit in a void. Doesn't work, hasn't worked, and will never work.

GigglesOSep 8, 20192 votes

Malphite -resets Garen - resets item 3102 - also resets Sejuani - resets Sion -doesn't deal damage if shield pops TahmKench -doesn't heal grey health

ModAcademy KaynSep 8, 20192 votes

Literally missed the point I'm making.

GigglesOSep 8, 20193 votes

Ummm no, you missed the point the OP made, pretty much every shield of that kind doesn't reset.

I also forgot, Rakan has to be out of combat.

ModAcademy KaynSep 8, 20192 votes

Once again, outliers exist, especially when the champions you listed are vastly different than Yasuo, the squishy carry whose explicitedly designed to be squishy, but has in-kit defenses to make up for that. Literally all the people you listed, are naturally tanky, and build tanky. Sion doesn't even count here, his shield is a normal CD. Meanwhile Rakan has 2 CC's and a heal, and isn't uncommon for him to build tankier.

You're applying blanket defintions, and then getting upset when your own notions aren't applied by literally everything, because wow, outliers exist, and they exist for reasons. You're also, still comparing abilities in a void, without looking at the champion as a whole. This is called Comparing in a void.

GigglesOSep 8, 20191 votes

By your definition nothing can ever be compared. They are both champions in league, that were supposed to follow similar design philosophies.

Pyke is supposed to be a carry and he doesn't get to regen his hp unless he is unseen.

Everyone except VI and yasuo follow this rule. Why do you want to defend riots decisions so badly?

ModAcademy KaynSep 8, 20192 votes

Yes, we should compare the design around Tankier champions with sustain and tankiness, with the design around a mobile-squishy carry. Because that makes sense.

Compare Yasuo to the people he's akin to, Melee Carries like Yi, Fiora, Tryndamere, etc. Not with Juggernauts, Tanks and Mages. You're comparing apples and oranges, and complaining that oranges don't taste like apples. Unlike other Melee Carries, Yasuo doesn't have any natural sustain in his kit. His only defenses is Windwall, and his shield. It's like saying Fiora should have to go OOC to wait for her next vital proc, or that Tryn's heal CD should be reset everytime he takes damage.

Out of all the complaints I've seen "Yasuo's shield shouldn't regen when damaged" is the worse. It completely ignores champion design in favor of comparing in a void someone elses ability. You know why Malz's doesn't? Because he's ranged, and it's a lot harder to break, and he should be vulnerable. Malz's passive is to help him from getting caught, or to help secure a non-interuppted ult.

Yasuo takes a single auto, to wipe out the entire shield in lane, already making it not comparable to Malphite and Rakan (Who btw, Rakan's can pop back up midst combat, hitting abilities actively lowers the CD of it. It's just that his Shield will naturally regen out of combat as well.) You talk about Garen, but not mention how Mundo gets his regen passive 24/7. What's the difference here? Oh, wow, it's almost like Garen's isn't meant to be used in combat, while Mundo's is!

Because they're different champions with different designs. It's like comparing Pantheon's passive to Karma/Heimerdingers ult, and saying why isn't Pantheon's empowered abilities locked behind his ult. Because while being similar, the champions are designed to function differently.

GigglesOSep 8, 20191 votes

See, those are the arguments that you should lead with, not "they are different champions"

I'm happy with those arguments. What arguments I'm not happy with are "they just are" like your original post.

Now if the OP reads it he might understand.

Modl Ryden lSep 7, 20194 votes

That is not how Yasuo's Shield mechanic works. That or I'm not understanding what your post is trying to say.

His flow bar recharges based off how many units he's traversed since the bar was at 0. In other words, he needs to move to regain flow.

If Yasuo just sits there, his flow bar will pause.

Yasuo's flow is depleted to 0 upon activation, even if the shield doesn't break completely.

Romans VI XXIIISep 7, 20194 votes

I just want them to include his shield in end game states. Cause there is a reason they dont. Cause if they did every one would see how busted it is.

AirKingNeoSep 8, 20192 votes

Because not every ability compared to champions is 1 to 1. Malzahar ult is a lot stronger than Yasuo's ult, but I would NEVER compare the two down to the level you are comparing their passives.

mack9112Sep 8, 20192 votes

He would literally never have a shield.

BLACK REALM GODSep 8, 20191 votes

part of the reason why yasuo gets his shield is thematic reasons, but also because yasuo can't silence you, force you to engage him, or do anything else at all from range. It's primarily used to help him approach with his E or similar tool.

on the other hand malzahar has both ranged attacks and status effects that prevent the opponent from going through an entire area.

GigglesOSep 8, 20191 votes

So its supposed to help him approach (your words), why does he also get to just freely have it pop up multiple times while in combat is the OP's point.

Also yasuo has no issue forcing engages. He has too high of a base movement speed for you to just walk away from him, and he has a dash, and a knockup.

BLACK REALM GODSep 8, 20191 votes

{quoted}

So its supposed to help him approach (your words), why does he also get to just freely have it pop up multiple times while in combat is the OP's point.

Also yasuo has no issue forcing engages. He has too high of a base movement speed for you to just walk away from him, and he has a dash, and a knockup.

it's because as a fighter yasuo doesn't innately have any form of sustain and his kit is centered around the idea of going in and out of combat naturally in order to attack from multiple angles or cut off escapes. This means you're constantly approaching and retreating which is why it fills up as quickly as it does.

as for his dash and knockup both come with stipulations. For 1 the dash can only be used on an individual enemy once per every ~15 seconds. This means his dash is just that. A dash. This means that yasuo's E isn't an offensive tool primarily and he gets a bit more of his power budget loaded onto his other abilities. It also builds from Ability Power and skill points instead of by attack damage - except yasuo's kit basically discourages any yasuo from buying AP and cooldown reduction due to all of the passive modifiers to his abilities.

his knockup requires yasuo to Q three enemies and then throw it out in a line. I understand getting knocked up with the E-Q combo, but if you're not just in yasuo's face trying to 1v1 as a mage there's really no reason why this attack should ever hit you. and yet it does because people fail to buy banshees veil, boots, reverie and so on. it's always brain numbing when I see a player sitting behind minions basically afk because they're afraid to approach yasuo because yasuo has wave clear so long as he's allowed to position where he wants to. That critical damage modifier is only good on his Q and his auto attacks. so 180 - 500. this is shorter than the range of most marksmen and mages. if yasuo is fighting an assassin like zed then you're just going to have to outplay, but there's really no reason why yasuo should ever hit you with his Q and auto. but he does. it's sad.

yasuo's base movement speed according to the wiki is 345. that's decently high so if you goal is to run away from yasuo... buy mobilities or swifties. or you can buy tabis and go full faced on with him and cut his damage by 10%. combine that with randuins omen and cut it by about 30% but people dont and it's always sad to see a 520 movement speed yasuo wipe an entire team because 1 dummy got poked and activated phantom dancer.

Yasuo is much like XinZhao Tryndamere Renekton MasterYi Jax Fiora Diana Camille

his kit is also arguably within the power budget of these champions as well.

for as much as players argue that yasuo's design is poor and unfun i'd argue against it. in fact i'd argue that yasuo is one of the only champions in the game that fits his theme almost perfectly.