Malzahars Ult Should Give Him Sight Of His Target.

Stephenizgod·Mar 20, 2015·47 votes·7,553 views

Im not quite sure why it doesn't since it would make sense both gameplay-wise and thematic-wise. It has actually cost me a few kills where i would have killed them if i could see them. Im basically tethered to them so it doesnt really make much sense why it shouldnt allow him to see them. Even if its only him gaining sight, it should still do it. Its a problem i have had for awhile i just keep forgetting to post about it haha. Just to be clear this is really only a problem because people have an instant to flash or dash before they are actually suppressed, so if they make it over a wall, around a corner, or into a bush i lose sight of them.

What do you think?

54 Comments

RiotMeddlerMar 20, 201542 votes

Good suggestion, we'll try that out.

EyrgosMar 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Good suggestion, we'll try that out.

I've suggested a few times... can Valor W please grant him lingering vision or true sight for the duration + a second after its area-reveal?

IwfiKe3qjMMar 20, 20152 votes

dang... I just thought of that... true sight... but for how long??? if for all duration (since duration only 2 seconds) isn't it OP or not???

EyrgosMar 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

dang... I just thought of that... true sight... but for how long??? if for all duration (since duration only 2 seconds) isn't it OP or not???

I don't think so, but maybe just 3 seconds in total or only for the 2 second reveal.

Part of the reason I mentioned lingering vision as an option instead of true sight too.

Though true sight just makes sense for Valor & would give him a nice niche bonus.

His W is the only one that lacks a bonus function & he does lose the ability to mark targets passively which means he's already losing his lingering vision which makes no sense.

StephenizgodMar 20, 20151 votes

If its too strong, then would it be possible to make it work just around corners or something? Like it doesnt have to include bushes or over entire walls, but when they get to a blind spot around a corner i think its a bit silly i lose sight. Thank you for replying though :)

CarryMar 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Good suggestion, we'll try that out.

i've got a better suggestion for u to try out. don't buff cancer champs with 55% winrates and zero mechanics. heimer, malz, swain, sion, mumu, sej all need nerfs. srsly don't buff any of them.

WeFlyNoLieMar 20, 20158 votes

Being toxic will only get you downvotes.

Auz the RipperMar 20, 20154 votes

he is somewhat right, although for the wrong reasons

If Malz gets buffed, he could become FotM

Which subsequently means he'll be kneecapped a patch later

I don't want my main kneecapped ;-;

deadlychuckMar 20, 20152 votes

This would be true, except for that fact that there exists and item which actually hard counters malzahar... item 3140 it even builds into a bigger item now. Granted there is only an AD option, it still means you can invest more into your power in the hyper late game.

I main malzahar, AP or AD, and either way a QSS is still good against him, yet of the games which i play him, i'd say only about 1/5 of the games does a single person buy a QSS.

StephenizgodMar 20, 20156 votes

He is somewhat wrong and also entirely wrong. Malzahar does not need a buff or a nerf, this vision thing im suggesting is not even a buff, it wont effect his power or melting ability, only his ability to ignite a target he has ulted over a wall.

TomA3XMar 21, 20152 votes

Which is a buff, is it not?

StephenizgodMar 21, 20151 votes

Yes and no, but no not really its more of a QoL change that doesnt effect him all that much except you can ignite someone.

TomA3XMar 21, 20151 votes

This is mainly my understanding of malzahar to blame, but how do you manage to ult someone over a wall, Isn't it a point and click?

StephenizgodMar 21, 20151 votes

Someone asked me this early and made me realize i forgot to explain how this happens in the original post. So i had to add it in a few days ago.

Basically before you are actually officially suppressed you do have a bit of time (like a split second, really) to flash once you realize he is about to ult you. If you make it over a wall, into a bush, or around a corner that cuts off vision, Malzahar will lose sight of you. Another very common situation is for a teammate to be fighting them and then like leave the bush or flash away and you can lose sight of them that way too.

KingsgraveMar 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Good suggestion, we'll try that out.

While you're at it, can you try it on Morde's R too?

Klatn YeloxMar 21, 20151 votes

Mord's R is a bit different, where the champ maintains control. Malz literally sucks the daylights out of someone, should have sight. Mord uses the power of heavy metal to steal the life essence across whatever distance they travel. Vision not guaranteed.

Ahri desuMar 21, 20151 votes

Can you also do it for ahris charm. Cuz 50 percent of her kit relies on vision to land, and it will fit ahris kit.

Also if you land charm you should be able to land ur w instead of walking all te way into a not warded bush.

Thanks Meddler!

WheatloafMar 20, 20157 votes

It's a bit disconcerting when you Ult an Akali and magically tether yourself to a cloud of smoke...

StephenizgodMar 20, 20153 votes

Im not even really talking about True Sight tbh its just annoyin when someone has time to flash over a wall, into a bush, or around a corner before actually being ulted and i have no clue where they've gone afterwards because i couldn't see them. Its worse when an ignite would have killed them if i could just see them to place it on them. Maybe i should start igniting before ulting, but then that sorta wastes my ignite if it wasnt needed. Idk it would be easier if it game him sight.

DivewingMar 20, 20152 votes

Would tick Nope cos that brings peoples attention to my pocket picks......AGAIN >:| (RIP Syndra , thank god for Azir semi-unnerfs and Talon at least keeping his burst )

StephenizgodMar 20, 20151 votes

I think he does need work but it would be unfortunate if it caused him to get nerfed over it. Just because someone doesn't know how to deal with him they call him easy and OP... really ticks me off... the amount of counter-play to Malzahar is enormous

DivewingMar 20, 20151 votes

It's the same counterplay as Talon, dont fuck up super hard and respect his range, but riot hates this cos they want everything to be a battle of twitch reflexes

Champion SkinMar 20, 20152 votes

Well Malzahar is about twitch relexes... How fast can you click that QSS to negate as much of the DoT and W damage as possible and R damage by leaving the range or turning on Malahar and trying to kill him

StephenizgodMar 20, 20151 votes

There are a lot more things you can do then just that but i think Malzahar is also twitch reflexes. How fast can you hit EWR before they leave your W.

TheBostonTapMar 20, 20152 votes

I'd be okay with that suggestion. In all honesty, the only piece of damage that would be effected by this would be ignite, since that's literally all you can cast without breaking the tether, but whatever.

StephenizgodMar 20, 20151 votes

Yea but ive also lost kills because they immediately dash or flash in a direction and i cant see which direction they go and whatnot so i cant Q. It would be nice to at least be able to ignite though

EnderForHegemonMar 20, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'd be okay with that suggestion. In all honesty, the only piece of damage that would be effected by this would be ignite, since that's literally all you can cast without breaking the tether, but whatever.

But there are four teammates of malzahar

TheBostonTapMar 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But there are four teammates of malzahar

Who most likely have skillshots and have a giant purple line telling them where an enemy champ is. You may not have vision, but you have a very clear sign as to where the champ is.

EnderForHegemonMar 20, 20151 votes

where, yeah, but not the ability to dps them. A lot of league now is skillshots, but there are still casters who rely on lock on and vision, like ryze and annie, not to mention ad carries.

GunpointMar 21, 20151 votes

Anything that hurts Ryze and Annie I'm completley fine with. Point and click mages are cancer.

Acidic PuddleMar 21, 20151 votes

Wait Ryze is still in the game?

EnderForHegemonMar 21, 20151 votes

11/14/2014 - The Patch that killed Ryze Flavor Of The Year. GJ rito you succeeded

Ryze's ability to bully out other top laners early is pretty bonkers, so we're reducing his base damage in lane ... We'll be keeping an eye on Ryze over the next few patches, however, as these nerfs might be on the light side for how dominant a champ he is.

StephenizgodMar 20, 20151 votes

I have noticed that sometimes it does give him sight and other times it does not, im not sure what the factor is.

AtheosisXMar 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I have noticed that sometimes it does give him sight and other times it does not, im not sure what the factor is.

It may depend on the champ involved. I know that with Leblanc she always disappears via her passive when Malzahar ults her.

StephenizgodMar 20, 20151 votes

Oh that i know, what im talking about is like when they flash around a corner or into a bush and then i lose sight of them. Im not asking for True Sight, just me being able to see them when they are around a corner. I mean its already kind of annoying they have time to flash before the animation is complete.

ZmuecatMar 20, 20151 votes

Only if his Malefic Visions is on the target.

Because combos.

EnderForHegemonMar 20, 20151 votes

now this I really like

StephenizgodMar 20, 20152 votes

That would be interesting, i think that it should give him True Sight.

MiniNotMeMar 20, 20151 votes

Remember a few time I Ult Akali in ARAM and she disappear.

EnderForHegemonMar 20, 20151 votes

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I don't like it. Malz should be a melt your face off carry who has to use his full rotation to kill a guy, this could encourage him to save his ult for vision in jungle teamfights, especially in cases where the channel can be started during a blink over the wall and remain in place afterwards. That's a cool use of his ult, but I think it distracts from his proper playstyle and fantasy. Buff his power somewhere else.

StephenizgodMar 20, 20151 votes

Well the issue is that they have time to flash before the animation completes or whatever, they are clearly flashing after they realize im ulting them. So i dont think its fair they can flash around a corner and for whatever reason i cant see them anymore even though im shooting a beam at them. It might as well cancel the ult and just refund the mana and reset the CD. His kit is to melt someone in a 1v1 early mid game, late game he is meant to catch someone out or lock down someone in a teamfight so your team can kill the others. This vision thing sort of effects his melt ability, its not saving it for when there is vision its saving it for when they have flash down. I shouldn't have to work around someones flash, Malz's kit is suppose to be locking down someone so they can not run away.

EnderForHegemonMar 20, 20151 votes

Good point about identity, but like you said, the answer to that is to make his ult either lock down target in all cases, or refund cd/mana. Not this vision half measure.

StephenizgodMar 20, 20151 votes

It would be nice for now for it to give vision until they can come up with a better mechanic. It just doesnt make any sense for it not to give me vision since im like tethered to them and whatnot

AutoreactiveCD4Mar 20, 20151 votes

Wait...I always thought that beam came from his mouth because it was one beam...He isn't vomiting the void?

StephenizgodMar 20, 20151 votes

Who says its not both?

GunpointMar 21, 20151 votes

In the ability icon it's pretty clear the beam comes from his eyes.

GunpointMar 21, 20151 votes

Under what circumstances, besides mabye a graves smoke screen or a nocturne ult, do you ever lose vision of someone you ulted? Don't you have to target them which means you have vision on them anyway?

StephenizgodMar 21, 20151 votes

I believe i answered this in the post?

People have time to flash or dash before they are officially Suppressed, if they make it over a wall, around a corner, or into a bush then i lose vision of them.

EDIT: Yea i didnt say so in the post, ill put it in now.