Why isn't brand played more, especially in LCS?

Arch Mage Magnus··8 votes·5,007 views

Although he has no mobility, you see other strong laners that have none, such as Xerath, or Viktor. Brand has an oppressive trade mechanic with his passive. His W is pretty easy to hit, and all of his abilities mesh off eachother for whatever you need, be it a stun, or extra damage. Also, his ult can wreck a single opponent, or turn the tides in a team fight.

I just bought him, and went 17-2 in my first game. I've seen him played and laned against him, and thought his mechanics were very good. What is the draw back to this champ aside from the mobility?

42 Comments

Maximum Zilean8 votes

Typically when immobile mages like Xerath or Viktor are picked, they have some form of utility outside of their damage, or the range in xerath's case. Xerath is never in range to be dove on, which is his reason.

Viktor is a very well rounded champion, has great damage, decent utility that can deny engages with W, because of this, he doesn't need 1000 dashes.

While Brand is literally 100% team wide damage. Sure he can burst teams down, but his range isn't all that great and he packs 0 utility outside of an easily avoidable stun.

Not saying Brand is bad, but he is not LCS material unless he is overpowered at the time. Sure a fed Brand can nuke your entire team in one combo. But in the LCS, Brand just has a giant target over his head the entire game.

gaby1best1 votes

Probably the best explanation. Still, Brand is pretty strong in SoloQ.

Divewing1 votes

Also, easy counters.

Jamaree4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arch Mage Magnus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rMgOJMEh,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-07-03T18:50:51.174+0000)

he has no mobility

/thread

He also isn't THAT long range as opposed to Xerath and has less utility compared to Vitkor.

junglerboy164 votes

He's what you call a "Sleeper pick". All the AP itemization changes that are about to come through will do wonders for him (notably the Liandry's buff). He's somewhat tricky to use effectively because he is an immobile, combo reliant, skill shot heavy mage (most of his damage and CC come from skill shots) with lengthy cooldowns and moderate mana problems. He is quite strong when utilized correctly in the proper team setup, but he isn't really as reliable as most pros like at the moment.

MLDzXnRRR3 votes

Try playing Brand vs Kalista... then ask again

Zyorhist1 votes

Range...his range is fairly low on his e and he has a lot of skill shots.

CIockw0rk1 votes

I'd love to see Brand more and at same time, NOT. I play brand since 2 weeks mid (i used to play support brand before). Specially after i saw the multiple annie nerfed, he may start to shine as a nuker. And it is imo the best nuker atm. Specially because you can toss your ult from a safe position and really hurt the whole team. Just send it to the single tank in front, and it goes bounce between the squishies, i love it. He has kinda not too hard laning phase vs Assassins, he have good time vs mid-range caster and it is very hard vs long-range mid laners. his 340ms makes it very easy to dodge skillshots.

Why he is not played in LCS? same reason why Annie mid isnt used. Teams can consider threat and position accordingly. A smart positioning agaisnt brand and u deny his dmg. He is also very vulnerable if the oposite team is well coordinated.

Overall, you are right to like him in YoloQ, its a monster.

Matezoide1 votes

He is a fairly low range immobile squishy that strong relies on landing his combo.

The likes of Xerath have better range. Viktor has situational mobility, utility and reliability, for example.

HadesBlades1 votes

Too short range, too immobile, easy to focus in fights, and loses power late game after his mid game spike with rylias and haunting guise :/ he is a fun champ, strong early and mid, but he is just loses to ganks and can be picked easily, unlike xerath who can play more safely with his range

CIockw0rk1 votes

he is still very relevant until late-late game.

those super never-ending game where everybody has 5 items+, well yeah, not so much

he does VERY good stuff still after mid-game

HadesBlades1 votes

Not until you have 2-3 tanks with visage, and a locket to soak up all that damage, and by late game i meant where people have 4-5 items, and trust me if there is a brand there will def be a locket rushed as a support lol no one in the LCS would leave that until that item out if there was a mage being used with so much burst.

Ixoziel1 votes

I love playing Brand, and usually do good with him. But he has a lot of weaknesses other than a lack of mobility.

His biggest strength, obviously, is the hp shred. The problem is that he's a burst mage, not so much a poke mage (although he can poke fairly well with his AOE nuke). If there's 2 enemies running at you, the passive isn't going to do that much when you cast everything up front.

His stun is very unreliable. Not only is it a straight line, single target skill shot, but you have to hit them with a previous spell before you can use it. This is a lot of wasted time. So you need to be in range to E them or you have to land W. Being in E range puts you in danger, and W is yet another skillshot. So you have to either be in danger, or land another skillshot before you can cast a second skillshot just to stun them. Annie on the other hand, doesn't have as much raw damage as Brand (although she has more reliable burst), but her stun isn't a skillshot, goes off on the first cast (if she properly charges it first), and can be AOE. As you can see, Annie's stun is far, far better than Brand's. Her AoE damage isn't that far behind his with Tibbers up. She has E which gives her a great amount of safety.

His W, E and R don't really do anything. They're just damage. They have no utility on them. Ahri has an incredible CC and fantastic mobilty. Annie can farm mana for free. Anivia has a small AoE stun that has insane scaling (1:1 on both Q and E), a wall, and an AoE slow with her ult. Syndra has a slow on one nuke and a stun/knockback on another. Cassiopeia gets movespeed and has an AoE slow, and an AoE stun. See my point here? Pretty much every mage has some utility on their spells. Brand has one abilty that gives utility: Q.

I think he plays most like Anivia, but without the heavy mana items needed. He has an unreliable stun and great damage, while being slow. The problem here is that Anivia brings a LOT more utility to a team, and her nukes scale extremely well with AP. ALthough she only has two basic nukes, they both have a lot more base damage AND a lot more scaling than Brands. So she can do about the same damage as his entire Q W E combo, with just Q E. But she also has wall. Their passives are both fairly useful, but I would have to give it to Anivia. You can trade 1 for 1 in the laning phase if you have Egg up and gain a disgusting advantage. It's also fantastic late game in team fights if they focus you first. THey're forced to kill a 2k hp egg with bonus armor / mr while your team focuses them.

Another problem with Brand is his ultimate. It's reliant on your opponents being idiots. It's never good when your abilities require your opponents to make a mistake to function properly. His ultimate is REALLY GOOD when you ult someone, and then one of their allies flash in j4 "I'm helping!" style and bounce the ult to them 2 more times. It's really bad when their allies properly move slightly away from each other, and it fizzles out immediately, doing little damage and no side effects.

So all Brand really has is damage. The problem is, his damage isn't really good enough to justify his complete lack of utility. Vlad, Anivia and Ziggs (among others) can easily do as much, if not more, champ damage than him while being safer and bringing more utility to the team. The exception is when the enemy has a lot of HP stackers, like Cho'gath, Zac, and Volibear. In those cases, Brand is fantastic at burning away their hp, especially with Rylais / Liandrys. Unfortunately, most of those champs are also very good at killing him.

7ha7guy7771 votes

For maximum damage output, you want to hit the enemy with an ability every 3.9 seconds because of his passive. How does this make sense on a burst mage? Is it mainly for the laning phase and poking people down before teamfights?

Gunslinger7441 votes

Xerath and Viktor both have something Brand doesn't, and that's range and scaling. Riot has a habit of working themselves into a corner when it comes to champion design, Brand is a good example of that. He walks that fine line between balanced and broken that keeps him juuuust out of the viable range.

Arch Mage Magnus1 votes

Thanks for all the comments. I am also a Viktor and Xerath player, so I can understand the strengths and weaknesses you speak of. I just figured in the tank meta, an 8% max health poke is a damn good passive up to mid game. Throw on a Liandrys (especially upgraded one) and it's some decent poke damage.

After playing a few games, I can see what some of you are saying though. He does have some range issues, but you just need to play pretty passive and know when to go in.

WuWo1 votes

Most tanks have a large amount of MR and HP regen to counter Brand's passive. Even with a void staff, sorc boots, and Liandry's, Spirit Visage just renders the burn damage null. In addition, health juggernauts like Sion has a shield to cancel the passive and then some.

gaby1best1 votes

Still, Brand can't poke safely due to his medium-low range.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Just give him until the AP item changes hit. Pretty much all indirect buffs to him.

Best mage will make a comeback.

The Loveless1 votes

im hoping roa rush will bring him up besides immobility, his mana doesn't last long, but he's powerful off of base damage alone

67chrome1 votes

Why isn't brand played more, especially in LCS?

Because of probability.

What you're asking is essentially why Brand isn't as popular as the most popular champions. Only ~10% of the roster is going to be popular and see tons of play.

Brand has a ~1/10 chance of being one of those champions.

TTUPhoenix1 votes

As a jungle main, I can also throw in that Brand is really gankable in laning phase. His range, as people have pointed out, isn't long enough for him to sit back and passively farm, which means that he's in danger if the lane isn't pushed to his turret, since he has to go out to CS. He has no mobility and isn't very fast, so it's easy to get up in his face during a gank, and his only defense is his stun, which only hits one person and requires him to hit you with another ability first.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Xerath has a global ult so he can snowball multiple lanes and push while still having presence in other lanes. Viktor has a bit more mobility, an ult that damages more reliably, cc that's aoe, his mana costs aren't as high especially when considering early on he doesn't use W unless going all in or trying to escape, and overall is a more versatile champion.

Fadedpf1 votes

Immobile and has to properly set up his stun. And it can be missed or dodged.

Slamurai Jack1 votes

His abilities are too unreliable for pro play. Simple as that.

Partholonian1 votes

Oh come on, they can't be as unreliable as Nidalee spears, and pros play her sometimes. They're probably not more unreliable than a Thresh hook, and he gets played a LOT.

There's more to his problems than "people can dodge skillshots".

Slamurai Jack1 votes

{quoted}

Oh come on, they can't be as unreliable as Nidalee spears, and pros play her sometimes. They're probably not more unreliable than a Thresh hook, and he gets played a LOT.

There's more to his problems than "people can dodge skillshots".

It's not really a valid comparison. If Nidalee misses a spear, nothing really happens other than she loses some mana since they're so long range and she is so slippery. A brand that misses his combo gets all inned immediately. But the least reliable part is his ult; sometimes it destroys an entire team and sometimes it hits 1 person and then does nothing. That's far too unreliable for a mid laner in pro play, although I do think he has merits as a support.

Ipols1 votes

I just bought him, and went my first game

I guess you should not think a champ should be used in lcs with so little experience with him I think he's strong but he's good at punishing bad positioning, which doesn't really happen that often in high elo.

who knows? maybe they'll play him soon. I feel like they always copy eachothers with picks for some reason. Brand's turn might come

The Whamboozler1 votes

Because he loses to Varus mid, that's why.

JFRANKSTA1 votes

because at this point brand is basically just a worse Xerath, they are both immoblie but at least xerath trades that for mana sustain, skillshots that aren't blocked by minions that have long range and a much more reliable stun

JimmyNtheKudos1 votes

Too immobile, not enough range to compensate. His stun is unreliable. As a support (Brand's strongest role right now) he doesn't bring enough utility.

lShocks1 votes

I say the same bout Malzahar .

High51 votes

I love malz and the overlord skin, but he gets his face bashed in by a decent team. Anyone that gets on top of him can kill him. As soon as you have an assassin or any adc that can dash to him, he's dead on arrival.

The Bíg Ticket1 votes

Lol what? He smokes any assassin rofl...there is no one who can take his combo.

Guy Fox Teemo1 votes

Because ZERO utility besides a crappy stun.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

Quite honestly, every champion in the game is viable. Though some just simply aren't popular I guess. Give it time, I'm sure Brand will be played sooner or later in the LCS.

Coming from a person who's played many "unviable" and "underpowered" champions, I think I know what I'm talking about. Unless you're Syndra with a 28% winrate, you're viable. Let alone someone that's actually extremely strong and fairly reliable like Brand.

FistOfSharkiesha1 votes

To put it simply, he's a counterpick champion, like Swain. If picked correctly, the only time you'll see him is when he counters a champion and he will just faceroll them.

This is because like other counterpicks, he can be harshly countered himself if picked first. His pillar can be easily dashed out of and his flame can be dodged. Because he is a combo based champion, dodging just 2 abilities nullifies about 80% of his kit. The bonus damage, stun, aoe, etc. Think the dash from Leblanc, Diana, Katarina, Akali. All of those escape the pillar easily and put you right on top of him, allowing you to move a tiny bit behind him to dodge his projectile.

tl;dr pick him first and the other mid laner has a long list of champions that absolutely destroy you. Pick him second and he is one of the strongest mages in the game.

I disagree that his issue is mobility or utility. He has a shit ton of aoe damage, good waveclear, and a stun. Literally his only issue that makes him rare is the fact that his duels are so obscenely lopsided. You're either godly or powerless in lane.

Jungle Lux God1 votes

Right now, the best AP build seems to be based off of getting a Rabadon's Deathcap and the other 120 AP items, and that isn't a build that Brand can use effectively because of his relatively low ratios and high base damages, including his passive. He benefits a lot more from a tankier AP build, and the AP items that he can use aren't very good right now.

He also struggles against a lot of highly mobile champions, and he doesn't have reliable enough CC to be able to deal with them effectively if they dive on him.

5.13 should definitely buff him a sizable amount, as it's buffing some of his core items, like Rylai's and Liandries'.

ChoGathsSon1 votes

Too inconsistent

Has nothing to do with his range or lack of mobility

The Bíg Ticket1 votes

He is broken as fk...Riot should add an option to surrender the moment Brand hits level 6...the game is pretty much lost/won at that point depending on which side you are on.

Arch Mage Magnus1 votes

Again thanks for the responses. I've never played in a ranked team so I can't really speak much on team mechanics. And being only Silver 3, it's hard to say how he gets countered in high elo. I've won every mid lane match up since using him ( against an Orianna, Syndra, and Ekko),

Now I don't see his stun being a bad thing. A lot of mids don't have the "best" stuns. That's usually left for supps and jungs. I almost prefer to hit Q with a skill shot and then W (which then does 25% more damage). Doing a W,E, ult combo in a team fight practically kills most champs assuming you came out evenly in lane and you play him somewhat passively during a team fight. Flash + ult when a teams trying to escape a bad team fight? Lol enjoy the triple or double kill.

Again this is solo queue so in regards to LCS, yes their could be issues. Just figured pros could dance around them. Like everyone is saying / thinking, I feel the incoming buffs to the AP items could really benefit him.

As for his build, if any Brand players can chime on, I've usually rushed Morellos to deal with mana and CDR issues, but felt with the new AP items, it might be better to go Liandrys for the AP, passive ability and magic pen. I hope to see Brand used in future LCS games regardless. I feel if he gets picked randomly, the enemy team will really have to dance around him since he's not very popular.

Prodlax1 votes

Not anymore LOLOLOLOLO

(thanks likkrit)

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