"We don't want to touch Kassadin's ult. We feel like it defines the champ''

Arch Mage Magnus·Feb 18, 2015·156 votes·9,157 views

Kassadin Riftwalk (R) range reduced to 450 from 700 Riftwalk (R) mana cost reduced to 60 at all ranks from 75 [Mana cost as he gains stacks now 60/120/240/480 from 75/150/300/600.]

Basically gutted him. Taking away his ult's movement by almost half? REALLY? God forbid they would ever get rid of Lee's ability to jump to a ward. No way would they take away the ability for Zed to port back to his shadow during ult. As if they would take away Annie's ability to stun with Tibbers. The balance team needs to be fired.

157 Comments

RiviniFeb 18, 201563 votes

LeBlanc has a damaging, longer range Flash with an undo button as a basic ability, which can be used twice via ult.

Healthy gameplay, though!

NarasimhaFeb 18, 201513 votes

It also has a much higher cooldown.

Truly PridefulFeb 18, 20158 votes

6 seconds at max rank and 40% CDR, so not by much.

YOU BEEN WARNEDFeb 18, 20158 votes

By max rank with 40% CDR Leblanc ult has ~14ish CD.

That's LeeSin W CD for the sake of comparison.

By the way Leblanc is supposed to "fall off" ha, ha, ha.

IMHO any champion that does what it wants all game long (( Zed Ahri ( yes, even before her rework ) Gnar Leblanc Nidalee Riven )) is fundamentally broken.

I may narrow the species down by saying they have a way to farm safely, have mobility & live without real cost to their abilities.

Auz the RipperFeb 18, 20152 votes

I mean compared to zed or kat, She does "fall off" In the span of a teamfight she can usually only kill 1 or 2 people Whereas zed or kat late game will almost always kill at least 3

JevelFaithfulFeb 18, 20154 votes

When you look at her numbers, she was never meant to fall off numerically. However, she's still an assassin. WHich used to be a really bad thing in teamfight (s2-s3 I think?). Right now, it doesn't seem to matter that much overall. But, in a fully fledge, b-the-book 5v5 teamfight, I'd rather have a brand, orianna or syndra than a leblanc.

Kobila2000Feb 18, 20152 votes

So, we get to the main core of the problem where an assassin is bad because it only assassinates one person. And people wonder why assassins get abused so much.

RiviniFeb 18, 201537 votes

{quoted}

It also has a much higher cooldown.

Can Kassadin instantly undo his ult?

NarasimhaFeb 18, 20157 votes

He doesn't need to. He just needs to wait a little less than 3 seconds. And better yet, his return isn't predictable.

RiviniFeb 18, 201511 votes

{quoted}

He doesn't need to. He just needs to wait a little less than 3 seconds. And better yet, his return isn't predictable.

That's a long time in a team fight.

Use the quote feature so people know who you're talking to. It's common sense forum etiquette.

DrCyanideFeb 18, 201518 votes

{quoted}

Use the quote feature so people know who you're talking to. It's common sense forum etiquette.

Under Discuss, click the link that says Switch to discussion view. The boards will make so much more sense to you, and you can use the reply feature.

Dont be HastyFeb 18, 201511 votes

Why would I switch to a shit reddit-tier format?

DrCyanideFeb 18, 201521 votes

Because not everyone is going to hit the quote button, and I'm assuming if you're here you want to know what people are talking about.

You do know an indented discussion view isn't unique to Reddit, right? It's common place on any system where people are meant to talk to each other.

Genova FearbaneFeb 18, 201532 votes

I feel Kassadin is alright where he is. I mean, yeah he has an annoying amount of mobility, and a decent amount of burst. But the thing is, that's who he is as a champion. He is meant to be a highly mobile assassin jumping out of nowhere to nuke the enemy AP carry and vanish over a wall. But currently, the balancing factors are A: His lack of range, B: He is so mana hungry he has to sacrifice getting early burst for mana items, and C: He gets utterly destroyed by silences and AD champions. But through my PBE experience and information on his upcoming nerfs, he's about to be gutted. Wasted 975 rp on the Harbinger skin in time to watch him get destroyed.

SEKAIFeb 18, 201522 votes

I am still waiting at least a Lee's ulti nerf.

There is nobody in this world who can read his ulti's description, including scaling, effect, cd and resource, and not shake his/her head.

Kass has barely done anything since like 2 seasons ago, guess what, here is a nerf. Enjoy.

Maximum ZileanFeb 18, 20157 votes

{quoted}

I am still waiting at least a Lee's ulti nerf.

There is nobody in this world who can read his ulti's description, including scaling, and not shake his/her head.

Agreed. If they do nerf it. Atleast give it a 100 energy cost or something.

YfrappefortFeb 18, 201520 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aziriously OP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zWbe33YO,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-02-18T02:27:51.346+0000)

Agreed. If they do nerf it. Atleast give it a 100 energy cost or something.

Nerfing Lee Sin? You must be dreaming. They are too busy with J4 atm.

RiviniFeb 18, 201519 votes

I've suggested before that his ult should function like Varus, Vi and Xerath's Q's do; charge up for increased distance and have reduced MS while charging. That way he can't instantly blink far away out of danger or chase anyone effortlessly.

PengodFeb 18, 20154 votes

doesn't his ult have a cast delay?

RaptameiFeb 18, 20155 votes

{quoted}

I've suggested before that his ult should function like Varus, Vi and Xerath's Q's do; charge up for increased distance and have reduced MS while charging. That way he can't instantly blink far away out of danger or chase anyone effortlessly.

Or have a really short range, which gets longer as you stack it.

RiviniFeb 18, 201515 votes

The Kassadin nerf is only going to make the ever-annoying LeBlanc even more of a popular pick.

BlackMagicWilsonFeb 18, 201518 votes

Personally, I'd rather play against Kassadin than LeBlanc. I feel like if I shut down Kassadin he stays down but LeBlanc always seems to be a bursty threat.

Brenticus12Feb 19, 20152 votes

Exactly. Kassadin will always be weak early and only really strong mid and late game if he's ahead for some reason. If not, he's weak mid game and alright late game if you just let him farm.

LeBlanc? She has good base damages so even if she's behind she can still be very relevant early, mid and late game (If she split pushes since teamfights are harder for her)

McAllisterFeb 18, 201515 votes

Wow, yeah. I'd been playing Veigar and Kassadin mid, if this change is in 5.4 along with the proposed Veigar changes, I'll have to drop the lane.

TheTheoryIsYouFeb 18, 201514 votes

Agree with pretty much all of this.

AakeshFeb 18, 201514 votes

Riftwalk (R) range reduced to 450 from 700 [Note: For a good reference point, Flash is 500 units.]

Kassadin

The most he can do nowadays is teleport in and when you're at 50% and steal the kill He's pretty shit now unless he gets fed. The nerf to his ult range is just going to remove him from play since that was his whole schtick.

DrCyanideFeb 18, 20154 votes

Flash is 400 unless I'm mistaken.

Dont be HastyFeb 18, 20155 votes

No, Flash is 500 units. The reference point comes from surrender@20

DrCyanideFeb 18, 20152 votes

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=79831

It was 425 in 2010, then was nerfed again when Fizz was released according to the wiki (sadly those patch notes no longer are available). Either you found 500 in some dark corner of S@20 or they use a very different system for measuring distances.

Dont be HastyFeb 18, 20152 votes

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/02/217-pbe-update.html Scroll down to the Kassadin nerf and tell me you can't flash slightly farther than what his riftwalk's range is now. There's even a comparison picture with the range indicators there.

ProfDrDeathFeb 18, 20152 votes

Why are both of you too dense to look it up?

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Flash

400 units. To which it was lowered to on patch 1.0.0.129 .

OneriosFeb 18, 20155 votes

One is probably edge based range and one center based range, which explains the difference. In practical terms though xiious is right, its about the same range as flash.

Cenobite AzazielFeb 18, 20158 votes

So ahri and fizz can do kass job better than him. Guess next stop is : Kass press his R and walks to a spot next to him and deals some damage..

toe thiefFeb 18, 20155 votes

Hey guys! Riot here with an incoming update to Kassadin. We've decided that his ultimate ability was getting a little too overpowered, what with the range being slightly higher than flash and well, we can't have champs that move slightly larger distances than our patented abilities! So we've decided to make it so that Kass's ult is now a self-cast. Here's the update info! Kassadin - R Riftwalk: Stand still. Then deal damage based on how far you moved while standing still. Moving 1 unit will increase your damage by 10000, but you cannot take advantage of this because you have to be standing still for it to work. Hope you all enjoy this upcoming buff to Kass!

ThePlasticSporkFeb 18, 20157 votes

Meh. If you ask me, they should've done this a really long time ago before trying to gut his damage or anything else. His ult has always been the biggest problem in his kit, so they should've tried addressing that before doing all that "let's throw changes at the wall and see what sticks" that they did to him before.

If you ask me, Riot is actually too cowardly when it comes to changing champion identities. Maybe it's understandable due to community backlash, but sometimes it's downright necessary. Rengar will never be a balanced champion while his ultimate functions in any kind of similar vein to the way it does now. Kassadin was never going to be balanceable while he was blinking huge distances all over the map - either he would have enough damage to be OP, or not enough and be useless. Katarina will never be a balanced champion for a huge variety of reasons. Veigar's kit in it's current state is not balanceable. Kalista is not balanceable.

These champions identities should not be maintained (or at least should be significantly shifted), because their binary natures are inherently rooted in their identities.

youngjake93Feb 18, 20159 votes

{quoted}

Meh. If you ask me, they should've done this a really long time ago before trying to gut his damage or anything else. His ult has always been the biggest problem in his kit, so they should've tried addressing that before doing all that "let's throw changes at the wall and see what sticks" that they did to him before.

If you ask me, Riot is actually too cowardly when it comes to changing champion identities. Maybe it's understandable due to community backlash, but sometimes it's downright necessary. Rengar will never be a balanced champion while his ultimate functions in any kind of similar vein to the way it does now. Kassadin was never going to be balanceable while he was blinking huge distances all over the map - either he would have enough damage to be OP, or not enough and be useless. Katarina will never be a balanced champion for a huge variety of reasons. Veigar's kit in it's current state is not balanceable. Kalista is not balanceable.

These champions identities should not be maintained (or at least should be significantly shifted), because their binary natures are inherently rooted in their identities.

Kassadin and Rengar are pretty balanced right now though.. I don't even know why they are nerfing Kassadin.

Auz the RipperFeb 18, 20155 votes

Because there's the theoretical hypothetical possibility he could be OP!

Killer X 12Feb 18, 20155 votes

Dude, i'm not a fan of Kass, but cutting his ult range almost in half is pretty stupid lol

AuryielFeb 18, 20154 votes

They should just reduce his health regen to near zero and remove the mana restore on minions that aren't canon minions

His laning phase is fkin obnoxious right now because he can start with flask and 4 pots

Make harass stick a little better and make him watch his fkin mana

LoLKiruFeb 18, 20153 votes

At this point, I'd rather them just remove riftwalk and give him a new ult. It makes him nigh IMPOSSIBLE to balance properly (given that you know, its flash on a 7ish second cooldown; even with a stacking mana cost its pretty crazy)

I've never really thought Riftwalk was essential to who Kassadin is anyway, "Flash on a short cooldown" doesn't really fit with his theme of "Void-Slaying Anti Mage"

Personally I think some form of AoE silence with damage tacked onto it would make a better ult for an anti-mage (even if it requires a long cooldown to compensate)

Him not having the strongest summoner in the game on such a short cooldown, would probably let them raise his damage too.

youngjake93Feb 18, 20157 votes

{quoted}

At this point, I'd rather them just remove riftwalk and give him a new ult. It makes him nigh IMPOSSIBLE to balance properly (given that you know, its flash on a 7ish second cooldown; even with a stacking mana cost its pretty crazy)

I've never really thought Riftwalk was essential to who Kassadin is anyway, "Flash on a short cooldown" doesn't really fit with his theme of "Void-Slaying Anti Mage"

Personally I think some form of AoE silence with damage tacked onto it would make a better ult for an anti-mage (even if it requires a long cooldown to compensate)

Him not having the strongest summoner in the game on such a short cooldown, would probably let them raise his damage too.

Why do people say things like "this part of the kit makes him impossible to balance"??? It's not like diving headfirst into an enemy to kill them and having a horrible early game isn't counterable...

LoLKiruFeb 18, 20155 votes

Its less that he dives into the enemy team, and more that having what basically equates to flash on such a short cooldown; gives him one of the strongest roams in the game (if not the strongest in terms of overall mobility)

Riftwalk is an incredibly strong ability, which is evident by just how much Kassadin has been nerfed, and even with those nerfs he's still seen competitive play.

When I say "balance properly" I mean Kassadin is always going to be RIDICULOUSLY weak in some fashion, as long as he has Riftwalk; since if he ever returned to any semblance of a strong laner again, he would likely become that infamous "always banned" champion again.

Edit: For Riftwalk to not be incredibly strong, it has to be absolutely gutted to the point of just not feeling like a good skill (kind of like it has been now, which is why I suggested replacing it; no point of having an ult, that doesn't feel like an ult)

youngjake93Feb 18, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Its less that he dives into the enemy team, and more that having what basically equates to flash on such a short cooldown; gives him one of the strongest roams in the game (if not the strongest in terms of overall mobility)

Riftwalk is an incredibly strong ability, which is evident by just how much Kassadin has been nerfed, and even with those nerfs he's still seen competitive play.

When I say "balance properly" I mean Kassadin is always going to be RIDICULOUSLY weak in some fashion, as long as he has Riftwalk; since if he ever returned to any semblance of a strong laner again, he would likely become that infamous "always banned" champion again.

Edit: For Riftwalk to not be incredibly strong, it has to be absolutely gutted to the point of just not feeling like a good skill (kind of like it has been now, which is why I suggested replacing it; no point of having an ult, that doesn't feel like an ult)

It is his ultimate ability.... Fizz and Leblanc have better versions of it as basic abilities. Sure it is strong, but literally every champ in the game has aspects of their kit that make them strong. You could say Cait is impossible to balance because of her range being so strong, Corki is impossible to balance because he can spam trinity procs, Heimer is impossible to balance because of his turret zone control, whatever. Nothing is impossible to balance lol. And if you want completely perfect balance, then just delete all but one champion...

Kobila2000Feb 18, 20151 votes

You know you can't really use "it's his ult" as an excuse when his ult is the shortest cooling ability in his whole kit.

youngjake93Feb 18, 20153 votes

{quoted}

You know you can't really use "it's his ult" as an excuse when his ult is the shortest cooling ability in his whole kit.

Yes you can... He used up his ult slot so he doesn't have a gamechanging teamfight ult like a Gnar ult or Ori ult. That is why Kass is balanced.

Kobila2000Feb 18, 20151 votes

Okay, NO assassin has a gamechanging cc ult. An assassin's job is to primarily kill one target, not to stun the entire team or become a tank. Kassadin not having this utility is not a weakness, it's something completely normal for all assassins. It's like the people who say a certain tank is weak because it doesn't have an escape. It's a tank. It's not supposed to have escapes. So saying that Kass is balanced because he lacks something that every other assassin lacks is bullshit. Kass can dish out enormous damage without his ult, he has no trouble doing his job with 4 low cooldown spells.

Brenticus12Feb 19, 20152 votes

Erm what?

You know what else assassins have? Mobility. Do you know where Kassadin is least mobile? Pre-6 before he gets his ult.

Also, champs like Katarina, Yasuo, Fiora, Tryndamere all have game changing ults and they have the job of an assassin.

Kassadin has the longest ramp up to become a true assassin except for Poppy because he's highly item dependent.

Also Kass has like no damage on his ult, it's extremely low and can only really finish off champs that could've been killed by a simple AA.

And yes, he does have problems because if you build him as an Assassin you have to be upclose and personal with his W (His assassin ability) and having to wait 3 seconds before you can riftwalk out WILL lead to death because before late game Kassadin is extremely squishy.

His Q does shit damage now because they nerfed it (Why the fuck are they nerfing Kass again after they nerfed his already trash laning phase?) and his E is mostly used for utility slow and general AOE damage.

His ult and W is his bread and butter as an assassin.