Darius' Q now has a start up time, but Annie ult is still instant

Arch Mage Magnus·Aug 17, 2015·119 votes·6,939 views

115 Comments

DreadlocksAug 17, 201525 votes

Yeah never mind he has 2 90% slows, his attack range was increased, his bleed does physical damage now so synergies very well with BC and can apply 5 stacks of bleed to the entire enemy team if hes already done so to 1 target. But yet, you guys are going to bitch and moan about a wind up on his Q. Which ultimately helps hit the outer ring of his Q and deal more damage.

TL:DR Darius isn't being nerfed. You guys just QQ over anything that SOUNDS bad and ignore every other variable.

Rinky DinkyAug 17, 201515 votes

~Boards

Also heals him for 10% missing health for each champion hit.

But that's not my business

LegacyDAPAug 17, 20152 votes

That's not a lot. It's nice for surviving at no health at all, and you still need to use your q.

My Waifu VanillaAug 17, 20154 votes

up to 50% missing health isn't a lot. Wowie Wow.

terkmcAug 18, 20154 votes

Its capped at 30%

LegacyDAPAug 18, 20152 votes

Okay take this into consideration. You're at 1 HP, and 3 people come, and you press q, you're back at 30% max health. Now take this into consideration you have 1700 out of 2000 HP. You have 300 missing health. You hit one enemy champion and get 30 health back, and it costs a ton of mana. It's not that good if you're spamming it for health. It's great when you need a last wind, but you guys overestimate it's power. I never said it was bad. I said it wasn't super good.

In what situation will the whole enemy team be chasing you with all 300 health, and you being near death, and them being stupid enough to take you back to 30% health.

Puppet33rAug 18, 20151 votes

But he** is **being nerfed. Before he was an op killing machine that murdered anything that came into his range in a matter of seconds. And if someone was foolish enough to think that he will flash/dash away from this range at the last possible moment he defied laws of physics to suck them all back into it.

Seriously though...I play a lot of darius and quite frankly that grabbing behaviour was the only way to really stick to your target. And now that it's going to be "fixed" and ms buff removed from his passive i have no clue what will he do. I mean pretty much everyone has escape mechanism and it was the only way to play around it.

1EldunariAug 18, 20152 votes

His W and E are gaining a %90 slow then the buff from phage as well i find it pretty easy chase people down.

Puppet33rAug 18, 20151 votes

All those 90-99% slows are one of the biggest middle fingers from riot to the champions with no mobility skill. And in case you do go up against champion with dash/blink, it simply won't matter. Not to mention that grab range is pretty pathetic.

1EldunariAug 21, 20151 votes

True but ive found item 3742 really helps with this and im not to sure the grab range is pretty big i think for what it is

LegacyDAPAug 17, 201516 votes

Yeah what was the point of putting a delay time on Darius's Q?

The same reason Veigar needs a delay on his E right? Which was no reason at all other than to "compensate" for DFG removal.

Sightless66Aug 17, 201533 votes

Well, it was a major reason why Darius never got any buffs. It created pretty oppressive situations in lane. If Darius gets ahead of you and you're melee, you can't get close to Darius at all or you take a huge chunk of unavoidable damage. They kept him in a mediocre state because of that. Now that his main damage spell can be dodged or hit based on the skill of both players, Darius can be given more power (and trust me, his bloodrage has a hell of a lot of power. I've been having fun with this one).

It's kind of related to Veigar's stun, but Darius's change was much more based on his oppressive laning, while Veigar's was based on the stun being the main reason people picked him as opposed to anything that should be central to his theme or fantasy. Mind you, I don't think they hit the mark with Veigar's changes, but that doesn't mean that the Darius changes won't turn out well.

LegacyDAPAug 17, 20153 votes

He'll still have his main combo though right E > AA > Q ?

Because with this delay, and any mobility champ I don't think he'll be able to get the combo on anyone.

GusiclesAug 17, 20153 votes

I think he might have to W before the Q to get it off, actually...

LegacyDAPAug 17, 20151 votes

Well can you do that? If the delays is long enough to go E > Q > W and still have the full combo then I don't see any reason to not keep the changes, and give him some higher base mana buffs.

RetroRage96Aug 18, 20152 votes

It's usually better to Q third because then you can hit them the blade more easily. If you want to hit them with the blade on E > Q > W, you need to back up, and then it's a lot more difficult to hit them with W if they start running away.

VerxintAug 19, 20151 votes

Apprehend and W both apply 90% slow for one second. So you pull, attack, reset with W, then hit Q and use the slow to ensure the blade hits.

His bleed is a lot weaker and the handle of his Q doesn't apply a stack. The gist of this rework is that it's harder to apply stacks and they do less damage, but if you get 5 stacks you go full dunkmode. His Bloodrage/Noxian Might (I'm hoping it gets renamed) is insanely powerful.

Puppet33rAug 18, 20157 votes

And Renekton with Riven are not oppressive at all and have so much delay on their skills. And an instant 2 sec stun from Irelia is just the definition of counterplay.

SmokinSickStyleAug 18, 20152 votes

Yeah that stun is the dumbest sh!t ever.

She's one of the few champs that puts you at disadvantage if you fight her with more %HP than she has.

SmokinSickStyleAug 18, 20156 votes

Hello?

Wake up?

That's the definition of lane bully, do you want a specific explanation of it?

So Darius HAS to be mediocre because he's oppressive early but Riven can shit on you at every point of the game and gets tankier than a item built tank darius by just building straight damage, with all the mobility that she has on top of no resource.

We have others as well Irelia , not a lane bully do one mistake and if she's smart she will shit on you for the rest of the game because she's a lategame monster, that doesn't even need items because she just ranks spells as Vayne to be efficient.

Darius mid\lategame in his current state is just cannon fodder, with all the mobile champs around it's REALLY hard to be relevant past the 20m mark if the the game is not a stomp in favor of Darius' team.

LockensterAug 19, 20151 votes

Tbh most of the actually broken champions suck atm, since their kit and overall design are way too strong and need to have a huge weakness to compensate in order to keep balance in this game.

Its like better to have a terrible champ then having a overpower one.

Hopefully these changes will help the juggernauts of the rift be viable and still have their identity

MohawkBirdAug 19, 20151 votes

[deleted]

Sightless66Aug 20, 20151 votes

It's a problem for her too, and she also needs a rework. She's just going to need a more comprehensive one than Darius got because guaranteed damage and CC is really her only significant unique trait. Can't remove it without removing the only reason she exists, so Riot has to find something new and unique to give her if they take that away.

CupcakeTrapAug 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yeah what was the point of putting a delay time on Darius's Q?

The same reason Veigar needs a delay on his E right? Which was no reason at all other than to "compensate" for DFG removal.

"compensation"

MaikalAug 18, 20151 votes

Considering how he can still move while his Q channels up, it's not that big of a deal. You still have a lot of control over hitting them with the outer end, and it's so much more powerful now since it has such a massive heal.

WolfeurAug 17, 201510 votes

Let's compare a basic ability of a juggernaut to the ultimate of a burst mage. That makes sense...

Artty of AlaskaAug 18, 20152 votes

Exactly. I mentally face palmed when I saw post title..

Not KatarinaAug 17, 20157 votes

We felt that giving Darius a delay on his Q would make him a high skill cap champion and allow for more counterplay as his Q (clearly) decides the outcome of a teamfight and does massive BURST DAMAGE to your ~~adc~~ marksman.

Annie? Who's that? Can't you see we're balancing the game here?!

Bears Dont CareAug 18, 20152 votes

{quoted}

We felt that giving Darius a delay on his Q would make him a high skill cap champion and allow for more counterplay as his Q (clearly) decides the outcome of a teamfight and does massive BURST DAMAGE to your ~~adc~~ marksman.

Annie? Who's that? Can't you see we're balancing the game here?!

Sure let' compare a basic spammable ability, to an ultimate. This community.

Not KatarinaAug 18, 20151 votes

You only proved my point further. Why delay a basic ability? It doesn't have enough of an impact to warrant a delay. Annie's Tibbers? That's an ultimate ability, with a stun attached [if you use your passive properly]. It does a large amount of AoE damage, is a massive teamfight powerhouse, and I'd prefer a warning on it over Darius' Q anyday.

But yeah, this community.

Sidenote: You have a history of defending Annie, and I don't argue against bias; so I will make it simple.

Is Annie fair? Debatable.

BUT: Annie is beatable. Annie is definitely counter-able, (this is not the same as having counterplay..). Is Annie game-breakingly broken? No. Absolutely not.

But Annie will not stay the way she is currently, and that is inevitable.

Bears Dont CareAug 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You only proved my point further. Why delay a basic ability? It doesn't have enough of an impact to warrant a delay. Annie's Tibbers? That's an ultimate ability, with a stun attached [if you use your passive properly]. It does a large amount of AoE damage, is a massive teamfight powerhouse, and I'd prefer a warning on it over Darius' Q anyday.

Well yes...it is exactly as you stated. It is an Ultimate ability. it is powerful to justify the very high cd and mana cost. Basic abilities have a.low cd comparatively, and are available from level 1 and not level 6 like an ultimate. On top of this, Darius q is both damage and a heal. It can also be channeled as he moves. a delay is perfectly acceptable.

But yeah, this community.

Sidenote: You have a history of defending Annie, and I don't argue against bias; so I will make it simple.

People who have not been convinced tens to maintain their stance.

Is Annie fair? Debatable.

No mobility. short ranged. reliant on flash. Doesn't push out other support choices. That is balanced. She isn't pick or ban and doesn't overcentralize.

BUT: Annie is beatable. Annie is definitely counter-able, (this is not the same as having counterplay..). Is Annie game-breakingly broken? No. Absolutely not.

But Annie will not stay the way she is currently, and that is inevitable.

Well yeah, scream loud enough and eventually someone will want to shut you up. Frankly, I would ignore the communities wails of balance since most are not qualified to discuss it.

Not KatarinaAug 19, 20151 votes

Doesn't push out other support choices Reliant on flash

I'm mainly talking about mid Annie, haha. I don't have any problems with support Annie. I can see why you'd be confused as to why I dislike her instant stun if I was talking about support Annie. It's really all Annie brings as a support, besides less damage than mid Annie, so I don't see an issue with it.

My only problem is when she's taken mid.

Annie has a moderate range compared to most mids, and is not as reliant on flash as one would think [in said lane]. There is a noticeable difference between a Tibbers from mid Annie and from support Annie (as one would expect), and I don't mind it. Support Annie is more focused on the AoE stun, while mid Annie brings both that and big AoE damage. I'm fine with Annie being specialized in the support role, even keeping her instant stun should that be where they try to place her her. It focuses her into bringing more utility and less pure destruction. But mid Annie with an instant stun that deals pure damage isn't exactly my idea of fun, or counterplay.

The LovelessAug 17, 20155 votes

How many more threads from feeders are going to pop up regarding Annie's ult toss?

SlaktarTaskenAug 18, 20154 votes

Lelelelel, I can't fkin believe this sh*t. Darious is hardly even seen because he's such a circumstancial pick, now they are gonna make him even more trash. But I can see the reasoning behind this, someone at riot got pwnd while playing Riven vs Darious and now Darious has to get in line and become just another useless fkin champ that has no chance going against this cancer monster.

Just look at all the champs that used somewhat be able to contend with Riven...

Garen had all his dmg taken away, the best he can do now is hope to not feed Riven. No he ain't a fkin Riven counter, a counter means you will win given equal skill, not that it's an almost even matchup given equal skill.

Pantheon got torn apart, he was never the best Riven counter because she could just play passively and then fk him in the *ss with her sword as soon as she hit 6 when her dueling power spikes and his diminishes.

Tryndamere had his ult duration lowered form 7 seconds to 5 so now he's a sh*t Riven counter because she can just CC him for half the duration and fuck him afterward.

Jax got nerfed repeatedly until he just can't stand toe to toe with her unless ahead and hitting his counterstike at max stack, good fkin luck doing that against someone who has on demand cc, doesn't need to auto, all the mobility in the world to jump away and jump back in at will.

And now the last bastion Darious has to go... im jesus fkin christ Riot.. are you for real?

Apparently the only champs in the game that are allowed to have a chance against Riven top are adc's with self-peel. I love how I will be pidgeonholed into chosing one of these now to deal with her laning, especially if my team doesn't have a tank.

Just waiting for that moron Mr. Broken Wings to come in and tell me what a trash champion she is and what garbage I am for not being able to deal with this trash champ, after all, she only has the strongest AD steroid, the most mobility, all AoE aside from autos, yes that includes both her fkin cc's and her longass ranged "burst you mothafucka" ult and she's the only fkin AD bruiser/assassin/fighter in the game that gets tankier from building her primary stat.

Thanks Riot. Really. GOOD FKIN JOB! claps

That Murphys LawAug 18, 20153 votes

My biggest issue is that he can't ult while casting his q. He already has enough issues with stuns/snares stopping his onslaught making his own kit stop his execute feels frustrating.

Still like the new direction, just feel frustrated that his main AoE damage puts his iconic ability on standby now

EvilMerodachAug 18, 20153 votes

I'm not saying it's balanced, but it's balanced. item 3614

Seriously though. Annie compared to Darius? Do either of those champs have anything in common? One's a squishy ranged burst mage. The other is a tanky melee sustain bruiser.

I fail to see the point of comparing them on any level.

Now compare to Irelia Jax Pantheon Renekton Rengar Riven Shen and we might have a point somewhere in there.

LimitaneiAug 18, 20152 votes

Why not change Annie's ult to what it looks like in the "Twist of Fate" cinematic? In the scene where Annie enters, she tosses Tibbers into the air, who transforms into shadow-bear form once he lands. (I'd say 1-2 seconds?)

FadedpfAug 17, 20151 votes

I think it is yet for Riot to comment on why they haven't made Annie's ult just a throw-able skillshot. They are changing everything else for counterplay though. Rito logic

LegacyDAPAug 17, 20154 votes

I don't necessarily agree with Annie nerfs, because you could say that with anyone, and a delay time. Malphite has very little delay time for his knock up, and can still nuke people, but I don't think he should be nerfed. Annie is pretty squishy, but has great burst and can stun a large group of people. I still don't think it should be nerfed.

Honestly I've never had a problem going against Annie. I just wait until her stun or q is down like most people, and out farm her if she's holding stun.

My Waifu VanillaAug 17, 20152 votes

Until she's support and literally holds onto the stun all lane. All the hate for Annie and her stun is directed at support Annie and not lane Annie since she is just a stun bot bot lane that can still one shot carries in lane after level 6 with no counterplay available if she flashes on top of you. Support Annie has fallen out of flavor now though due to the dominance of tanky supports that she can't do anything to but it is still a problem that should've been addressed the second Riot went on a soap fest talking about "windows of power" and applying them to champions.

GankLordAug 18, 20151 votes

I thought I'd never see the day when people would actually complain about annie I;m assuming that she's just seeing pro play atm which is why people are complaining same as when it's wukong free week.

Stars ShaperAug 18, 20151 votes

It's a matter of double standards.

You can't give everything a delay but not to Annie because she is Annie, expecially on such a heavy skill that deals, damage as burts, over time, summons a minion and stuns AoE.

Silents429Aug 18, 20151 votes

And how would making her ult delay change anything?

CrazedPorcupineAug 18, 20151 votes

it would give people to flash away from it. Because right now, even if you manage to flash it, you still get stunned because the stun checks enemies in the area at the beginning of the cast time.

SammystormAug 18, 20151 votes

You can actually flash away though.

CrazedPorcupineAug 18, 20152 votes

actually, you can't really. If she lands tibbers on where you were before you flashed, you still get stunned if you flash within the .5 seconds that tibber's takes to come out.

It's the same programming bug that caused Darius Pull to pull you away even though you flashed blinked and dashed away.

SammystormAug 18, 20151 votes

Their is a split second where you can flash away but meh.

CrazedPorcupineAug 18, 20151 votes

No, there isn't. Annie's stun checks the targeting of the spell and if any targets are in her W or R area as she BEGINS the cast time, then if they're there, then you're stunned. So you literally have <.1 second to actually dodge her spell. you have to essentially pre-emptively flash.

SammystormAug 19, 20151 votes

Regardless of the time frame it does exist. Also unlike darius pull if you get stunned despite flashing it doesn't hurt you nearly as bad as trying to flash a darius pull.