How are you going to say you see the issue with damage being too high

Towboat421·Sep 28, 2018·80 votes·17,789 views

How do you spend a couple of patches doing nothing to fix the issue and then call the problems solved and say your happy with where it is at the moment.

I went through the patches just to make sure I wasn't being unfair and no no I wasn't being harsh enough. Champs keep getting buffs to damage, nerfs to health and decreases to cd's its disgusting.

Your golden boys never receive nerfs in a meaningful way that would make them not always the optimal pick in every situation. just to name a few are champs that consistently see this pattern where they'll get a skin unveiled for the them and riot throws everything to the side in order to insure they rake in as much money as possible by making them a literal chore to play against.

Weeks turn to months turn to fucking years before stuff gets addressed and its ridiculous, I decided to humor myself and look at the patch notes comments and people are just as shocked, gotta love the little excepts trying to justify giving buffs to champs that clearly don't need them they're the epidemy of talking without saying anything it's great just great.[zombie-brand-facepalm]

71 Comments

BlakiepugSep 28, 201820 votes

Weird comparison incoming but... If anyone from the Riot balance team were to take one of my Teacher Education classes, they would utterly fail the course when it comes to writing reflections upon their own work. The balance team always seems to think that everything they do is a positive change and never ask themselves what they could do better next time and then act on it. I just don't understand why it's so hard for them to admit, hey look we messed up; now here is our plan for how to fix it.

ModWulf HelhammerSep 28, 20187 votes

That’s a pretty flat out lie.

Riot has repeatedly said they’ve messed up on something, or that they could have done better.

Just because you don’t think a change is good doesn’t mean it isn’t as a whole.

BlakiepugSep 28, 20185 votes

{quoted}

That’s a pretty flat out lie.

Riot has repeatedly said they’ve messed up on something, or that they could have done better.

Just because you don’t think a change is good doesn’t mean it isn’t as a whole.

Can you give me some examples?

MordepoolSep 29, 20183 votes

Mordekaiser Rework is one example. the Complete lack of communication with Champion changes aswell as the rebuttal of positive feedback.

But Because of that monumental failure we have: Meddler gameplay updates GU champion feedback threads

They are making efforts. What efforts are you making OP? Other than being argumentative?

HibekiSep 29, 20182 votes

OP is making more of an attempt to balance the game than the balance team lol. Hes sharing what are genuine problems with this game

nubulas2Sep 29, 20182 votes

I think I have figured it out. It is miss named, should be the imbalance team. And "moderator" seems to be Latin for "instigates more comments and antagonizes users."

Beacon AcademySep 29, 20188 votes

They can say they messed up or that they could have done better all they want.

But what did they follow it up with? Even more of the same mistakes.

Actions speak louder than words and Riot is currently rupturing my mental eardrums with all the stupid shit spewing out of their patch notes.

VztahSep 29, 20182 votes

Amen.

EasternBladeStarSep 30, 20182 votes

They treat us like their whole customer base is dumb.

That way of thinking earns no respect.

ModWulf HelhammerSep 28, 201815 votes

They didn’t say the problem is solved. They said it’s mostly stabilized, which is what they’ve said is all they are going to do until preseason, as the game changed so much in such a short time frame that it’s better to have at least some level of stability.

AnateraSep 28, 201847 votes

{quoted}

They didn’t say the problem is solved. They said it’s mostly stabilized, which is what they’ve said is all they are going to do until preseason, as the game changed so much in such a short time frame that it’s better to have at least some level of stability.

You call the game in its current state stable?

ModWulf HelhammerSep 28, 201811 votes

Can you give me a reason why it isn’t?

Stable doesn’t mean perfect, it doesn’t mean everything is viable. It’s means things stay where they are, within a margin of error.

You may think damage is too high, but if most everything is at that same level, then that’s stable.

Nausicäa Sep 29, 201837 votes

I love you choice of words. You may 'THINK' damage is too high.

No it IS objectively too high. Its higher than its ever been. High instant kill burst damage objectively lowers skill expression, fundamentally breaks champion and gameplay designs (sustained damage champions vs burst, late game champs vs early, kits not playing they way they should) and creates an overall frustrating experience.

Some people may enjoy high damage because they like to mash their face and skillessly kill someone with their favorite assassin, but the person on the receiving end sure isnt having fun.

ModWulf HelhammerSep 29, 20187 votes

An opinion cannot be subjective or objective. Damage is higher, sure. But the measure of “too high” isn’t something that can be quantified, and therefore an opinion on it cannot be right or wrong.

EchostormxxSep 29, 201815 votes

Damage is higher, sure. But the measure of “too high” isn’t something that can be quantified, and therefore cannot be right or wrong.

This simply isn't true. At a certain point, too much of anything becomes toxic and overbearing. For example, if you eat too much junk food, it will have a negative effect on the body. The same can be said for damage. Too much damage will make the game downright frustrating to play, it will have a toxic and deteriorating affect on the interest of the playerbase. "Too high" is anything that makes League gameplay overly frustrating or unfair for certain players. You couldn't give every champion 4 separate abilities that each do 500 damage and expect the game state to be healthy. You see where I'm going here. At a certain point, damage being too high could very well become unbearable for players. At a certain point, excessive damage is unjust and inconsiderate to force upon us.

ModWulf HelhammerSep 29, 20184 votes

And who gets to judge what is too much? You? I could find half a million people that disagree with your view point of what that is.

What’s unfair for one person is perfectly fine for another.

That is my point. You can measure objective things: damage has gone up. What you can’t measure is subjective things: when that amount reaches “too much”

ĘsdeathSep 29, 201811 votes

Can you literally shut up? Right now, you are shooting your own leg with every word you post.

The fact you defend the current state of the game by calling it stable (and don't come saying you didn't say such a thing) is just ... ridiculous and absurd. You are literally blind to everything around you, and if no one ever told you that, then I will be the first one telling you that.

The only thing you mentioned and that is definitely true is the fact they never stated the problem was solved. But for fucks sake, saying the problem is stabilized by contrast makes you look dumber than anything. And even if, somehow, someone was to agree with your stupid point of view (half a million ** cough * *) his vision would change just by staring for a millisecond at the patch notes of the latest patch. They literally buffed damage across the board after (as you said) calling it "stable" - So let's see it: after an entire season (it has been that long honestly), they started fixing up the fucking damage issue but hey! Let's fuck all that up by buffing a few other champions (actually, and correcting myself, a few on-going-meta champions). But moreover! The worst of all is that you actually dare to agree, for a second, with their view.

It is too fucking much. And, actually, too much, in its deepest sense can mean "enough" (dressed up under the idiom of "bottled up") it doesn't necessarily have to be a quantity matter. That is something you failed to notice in his message. Tiring, wearing - Capable of becoming so unbearable that you can't contain your anger/hatred for it anymore. Too much damage, is definitely that. It is annoying, tiring to the point you can't just ignore it anymore.

Read more, and maybe you will actually understand the meaning of things. I am not even a native and I know more than you do, fucks sake ...

RebeccaUCuberSep 29, 20184 votes

why u dont do a survey then? I really want to See The half a milion ppl u mentioned [sg-lulu]

nubulas2Sep 29, 20183 votes

You can measure how many people down vote every comment you make and how many players rage on this forum compared to how many players actually defend riot.

RebeccaUCuberSep 29, 20181 votes

i Think a "professional" survey is far better and results in a large scale should give us far better results. it will be My job so i think this kind il research should be as much accurate as we can ^^

nubulas2Sep 29, 20181 votes

Well an actual survey is happening right now.....and the results are overwhelmingly no.

Galaxy DestoryerSep 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You can measure how many people down vote every comment you make and how many players rage on this forum compared to how many players actually defend riot.

LS would say to u is that ur on a new level where we should just avoid u my friend (Iron5 incoming)

nubulas2Sep 29, 20181 votes

do you speak English? no idea what you just said. I gather you wish to dispute the overwhelming opposition with a snarky comment as if that actually has some merit.

Galaxy DestoryerSep 30, 20183 votes

{quoted}

do you speak English? no idea what you just said. I gather you wish to dispute the overwhelming opposition with a snarky comment as if that actually has some merit.

Sry I don’t English if I do i might turn into a bronze5 like u not saying b5 is bad but I just never met someone that is legitimately b5 that doesn’t have issue tbh

nubulas2Sep 30, 20181 votes

issue? oh and everyone above B is just revealing in glorious elation...just read the boards.

You ppl just equate everything in life to rank in league don't you?...lol

Hilarious.

A Latte DeathsSep 29, 20182 votes

This is a bad comparison. The League equivalent to your junk food example is that more damage = champions die faster. It's a cause/effect that is objective and can't be disputed.

Whether damage is too high, too low, or just right is an opinion. I agree that it seems too high, but you'd be shocked at how many people are of the opinion that it is just right.

As far as stability goes, League is relatively stable. There are certainly strong champions that require nerfs, but none that absolutely break the game. It's frustrating that they're putting lowering damage further on hold, but it's what they chose to do and all we can do is hope that they keep to their word and continue to lower damage at least a bit more once preseason rolls around.

BarcidSep 29, 20182 votes

Dude.

An opinion is subjective. Objective is unbiased. Like the literal definition of subjective is that it is existing within the mind rather than in the material realm.

It's hard to take your argument seriously when you're missing the point of words as well.

As for the "stability" statement, it means that everything stays the same to how it was without deteriorating and instead slowly returning to a place of homeostasis - since the game has steadily been deteriorating, pushing it further down that road means that it is still unstable.

It would be a similar if not identical situation if tanks were absurdly strong and nothing died ever and instead of just kind of evening the game's flaws out for the time being, they implemented an item that gave 150 armor and mini-stunned anyone who auto-attacked the wearer.

SUPERX4PANDASep 29, 20182 votes

Those are some real grammatical gymnastics right there in an effort to salvage the point.

xxx6Wizard9xxxSep 29, 20182 votes

Dont mind him. This guy is mod and their job is to defend their company. If RITO says that world is flat mods will repeat the same.

Towboat421Sep 28, 201810 votes

{quoted}

They didn’t say the problem is solved. They said it’s mostly stabilized, which is what they’ve said is all they are going to do until preseason, as the game changed so much in such a short time frame that it’s better to have at least some level of stability.

I recall seeing a Rioter comment on damage and say that they were happy where It was 2~3 patches ago, i'll have to go digging for it later though since that stuff gets buried. And your defense of the current state of the game is pretty haphazard seeing as its been a degenerating state for about a year with sentiments from high profile community members, to pro players and regular joe smucks all coming to the consensus that changes were being made just for the sake of it.

If and only if this problem was something that had originated say about a month ago you'd have a point, but this is something we are seeing as a pattern of behavior and expecting anything else from them would be foolish at this point. Just shrugging and saying good enough while creating more issues (i.e. buffing champs who don't need it/ leaving champs who are crowding out the rest to their own devices) is what is N O T okay.

ModWulf HelhammerSep 28, 20184 votes

They are happy where it is for now, when they aren't doing more in-depth changes.

They have already repeatedly said that they are going to be working on snowballing and damage in preseason.

EasternBladeStarSep 30, 20181 votes

They're doing shit. It's all gonna end up as empty promises lying on the floor with their lies and false statements.

At this point, the game deserves to die. Shame for all the artistical talent.

Doge2020Sep 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I recall seeing a Rioter comment on damage and say that they were happy where It was 2~3 patches ago, i'll have to go digging for it later though since that stuff gets buried. And your defense of the current state of the game is pretty haphazard seeing as its been a degenerating state for about a year with sentiments from high profile community members, to pro players and regular joe smucks all coming to the consensus that changes were being made just for the sake of it.

If and only if this problem was something that had originated say about a month ago you'd have a point, but this is something we are seeing as a pattern of behavior and expecting anything else from them would be foolish at this point. Just shrugging and saying good enough while creating more issues (i.e. buffing champs who don't need it/ leaving champs who are crowding out the rest to their own devices) is what is N O T okay.

From what I see, the last few patches or so before preseason starts is more to help riot see what they can address in preseason and hopefully “fix” or stabilize in the next few patches before preseason, when preseason hits or even during preseason. I think that the strategy that Riot might be trying is kinda the same when they release a new champ or a reworked champ. Make the numbers of a champ kinda overtuned so they know what to tune down or fix in a hotfix or patch. Now that doesn’t seem like the best idea in this state of the game, but I think this could be a viable idea about why they could be doing these weird patches.

It’s that idea or Riot see something in either high elo/low elo that is a problem and they try to fix it in a way that will help only that elo and hopefully not create another game breaking problem in the other elo.

I think that is why most people don’t understand why Riot buffed/nerfed a champ that was either broken or extremely trash, they don’t think about the other side of the spectrum and see that a champ who is extremely oppressive in one elo gets an “unneeded buff” when the champ is actually trash in the other elo (which that buff was for). Take yasuo for example, in low elo he is the bane of most players existences, while in high elo he wouldn’t perform as well and has a lower winrate and pickrate. Yorick as another example got a nerf to his ghoul damage because they were really oppressive during laning phase for the low elo, meanwhile they were fine in high elo. In this regard, the past few patches also has some weird buffs/nerfs because Riot has to patch the game to fit the pro scene and Worlds.

Just like the balancing differences between high and low elo, pro play has different strategies and a slightly different meta than both low and high elo, what could be powerful in soloQ could be trash in pro play, and viceversa with meta/trash picks.

NaturesMayhemSep 29, 20183 votes

Yep. A little bit off topic. However, considering the current state of the game and how patches have been rolling out, constantly being anti-productive for the past few season. I'm genuinely scared of what they will be doing this preseason. They can hardly balance the game now and I'm almost certain they're going to add a whole new array of features or touch up an entire class. I think Riot should do nothing of the like this preseason and instead focus on the balance of current content.

EasternBladeStarSep 30, 20181 votes

When you genuinely fear how badly the developers are going to mess up next, it's time to hop off the train.

At least in my opinion. Vote with wallets, vote with game time.

MarkedOfKaneSep 29, 20182 votes

Its so funny to see champions who are banned nearly every game get buffs.

kneel on IceSep 29, 20182 votes

I dont know how "buff every champion who gets new skin" marketing strategy even works

lets say someone bought the new Khazix skin , played with him and found him so strong that he likes the whole skin and champion and game more than before, and lets say his happiness even gets him onto buying other skins (which is more profit)

on the other side , you got thos played against khazix that are 5 unhappy players about the unbalance of the game , and of course their mood won't be any profit for the company , since it leads them to play less , or quit the game

So you that makes -4 profit for the company

mack9112Sep 29, 20182 votes

Idk I feel alotta complaints on these boards are over exaggerated I mean there are a few champions that are outliers but overall game balance is pretty ok in my opinion.

Towboat421Sep 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Idk I feel alotta complaints on these boards are over exaggerated I mean there are a few champions that are outliers but overall game balance is pretty ok in my opinion.

People will say this regardless of what state the game is in, some people are content with what riot does so long as they aren't going as far as pissing in the players mouths.

ShigureSep 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

People will say this regardless of what state the game is in, some people are content with what riot does so long as they aren't going as far as pissing in the players mouths.

And people will also complain about the state of the game on every single patch regardless of the meta or overall balance of the game. This game will never be in a state where everything is balanced and playable, it's practically impossible. Honestly the game has been in a better state in the past few patches then it was for the first half of the year. Sure there are outliers that need to be addressed however it's worlds season and by now everyone should know that ritos schedule at this time of the year is small changes until preseason.

KoggyStyleSep 30, 20181 votes

ive been complaing since mid s3 when they nerfed tank stats :3

mack9112Oct 1, 20181 votes

Lol

Madsin25Sep 29, 20181 votes

Damage is high for many reasons.

The most important and gameplay related reason is sustained vs burst damage.

Riot has openly admitted they want burst to be over sustain. Therefore with sustain damage as ridiculous as it is you have to give everyone insane burst.

Instead of them just nerfing sustained damage they just made the game a clown fiesta.

SnugglesnacksSep 29, 20181 votes

Yes damage is too high. That part is not an opinion, it's a fact. Defense is too low, and therefore damage is too high... when you're getting deleted in less than 1.5 seconds (or shorter) because someone is able to dish out four digit numbers with a sneeze and a poke? When a tower takes hits like the soggy cardboard it is?

It leaves little room for a plausible 'no it's not, nananana na na' unless one wants to come across as being either dense, biased, or just being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian. Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean people are wrong when they express this reality in their gaming.

If you have zero window to act out anything other than staying a screen away... what's the point in even having abilities/roles you can't properly use? Not to mention that any form of countering said damage was nerfed down to the dirt in the form of heals/shields/effectiveness of tank items compared to damage-focused ones, etc.

You shouldn't have to feel like every single game is "let's see how long I can survive passed 2 seconds in action". I don't even think Riot knows what they want the game to actually be, because it sure isn't balanced in one way or the other. There are too many problematic items; too many problematic runes; too many problematic champions.

Pika FoxSep 29, 20182 votes

If you think defense is too low, youre building wrong.

Kha KaySep 30, 20181 votes

I wanna question people that are in bronze plz tell me how is it possible to be in b5 I would really like to know and get myself to b5 because I feel like even if I intentionally feed I won’t even make it*[cass-cry]*

KoggyStyleSep 30, 20181 votes

just do promos and decay, i got outta b5 in like 6 games tho XD

EDIT: last season i even bothered with ranked anyways, it has nothing interesting down here, id rather just play aram same thing.

Kha KayOct 1, 20181 votes

Idk man like I really want b5 in like 5 games I’m playing with 6 fingers and I can get high sliver I just can’t image what it’s like in bronze and I wanna see how it feels

ignyteSep 30, 20181 votes

there is a line in the patch notes that disturbs me. in the patch notes, they say "...rather than trimming power from the top picks in pro play we've been seeing, we're going to be giving a few nudges to other champions that should help keep them in check. "

this kind of bothers me. instead of nerfing from the top and bringing over all damage down, their soulution is to buff champions and turn them into natural predators . so what happens when those natural predators become too strong themselves? buff another set a champions to bring them in line ? and then what? this cycle seems pretty counter-intuitive, In my humblest of opinions.

does it not seem like Riot is creating the snowball themselves ?