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Almost seems like riot's balance team is intentionally trying to ruin the games balance

Towboat421··105 votes·20,360 views

For the longest time thought it was just incompetence/not playing the game but this shit is outta hand.Darius Khazix Fiora Pyke all receiving buffs when the lot of them are performing decent to amazingly.

Hell Kha was just nerfed to keep him in line since he was stomping solo que before his changes, people are gonna argue fio and darius are "weak" because mah win-rate but both those champs are popular fighters and if you think either of the are weak then that word has lost all meaning. Fiora is supposed to be gated by having a meh early game because her late game is borderline impossible to deal with if she gets ahead, darius got a buff to his damage build despite having damage all over his kit and this is coming from a person who plays him pretty frequently its fucking dumb.

Pyke doing well in plat+? Better add 50 extra to his true damage execute threshold.

Akali Is still interactive and fun to play against and totally doesn't have near the same issue as pre-rework poppy where if she wants a target dead there is little a tea can do to stop her since she'll be dipping into stealth the entire fight refreshing its duration with her speedboosts and dashes before annihilating her target.

90 Comments

Verxint59 votes

The Fiora changes, while small, show one of the biggest issues with the balance team's philosophy. "Fiora isn't getting rewarded enough for being aggressive" inhales Shes. A. LATEGAME. HYPERCARRY. Aggressive laning SHOULD NOT be something she is rewarded for. She should be farming and playing safe during the early game because she is too weak to be aggressive. You can't have a champion with an insane lategame and scaling and then try to make them an aggressive laner. It's not compatible. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want a lategame hyperscaling champion, they need to be passive in lane so their early game can be exploited. If you want an aggressive laner, they need to smooth off lategame and get outscaled so it's possible to weather the storm.

Aggressive play is not always the answer. Stop obsessing over encouraging aggression. It's not healthy for the game.

ModAcademy Kayn5 votes

If you want a lategame hyperscaling champion, they need to be passive in lane so their early game can be exploited

I don't think that line of logic holds up. I think it makes plenty of sense, to award aggression to someone with a lack luster early game, so that they actively fight you, meaning, that you can take advantage of that early game, and get some kills yourself. A passive Fiora just runs away or hides under tower until they can kill you, nothing like Nasus with no mobility or CC (despite that damn slow).

Her dashes and Parry would make her impossible to catch, meaning, there isn't a chance to actually take advantage outside of CS factor. Awarding aggression early, means allowing people to actually fight the early game Fiora, so that they have a chance to win.

Verxint9 votes

Zoning a lategame champ out of large amounts of cs and then taking the first tower in their lane and going to other lanes while they're forced to farm up because they need items to be relevant should be more then effective enough. Not everything in the game should be resolved with fighting.

Furthermore, a properly designed lategame champ should take more items than most champs to start being strong and able to take fights, meaning you can also just go even with them and abuse your powerspike at one item. What's happened is that in riots mad obsession with aggressive play, they've made lategame champions also spike on one item and degraded the strategic options against them down to "fight them early", or my personal favorite "gank them". Because someone being so weak early that you have to gank them to beat them makes sense....

Minimac200025 votes

{quoted}

The Fiora changes, while small, show one of the biggest issues with the balance team's philosophy. "Fiora isn't getting rewarded enough for being aggressive" inhales Shes. A. LATEGAME. HYPERCARRY. Aggressive laning SHOULD NOT be something she is rewarded for. She should be farming and playing safe during the early game because she is too weak to be aggressive. You can't have a champion with an insane lategame and scaling and then try to make them an aggressive laner. It's not compatible. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want a lategame hyperscaling champion, they need to be passive in lane so their early game can be exploited. If you want an aggressive laner, they need to smooth off lategame and get outscaled so it's possible to weather the storm.

Aggressive play is not always the answer. Stop obsessing over encouraging aggression. It's not healthy for the game.

They care only about rewarding aggressive play because they think that if they do that pros will suddenly start playing recklessly and taking stupid risks that make LCS more "exciting" to watch, but they never do so the health of the rest of the game just keeps getting screwed over in favor of that goal which unsurprisingly makes pros play safer because they can't afford the risks

Verxint14 votes

They have it backwards too. They think higher risk, higher reward will make more aggression in pro play. What they should actually do is boost low risk, low reward aggression, but they've actually consistently nerfed that. You see that in pro play where laning is boring and mundane because the only option is to go ham for the big play and get all the reward. Up until then they just cs the same while either holding the lane in the middle or trading wave crashes under their tower.

Minimac20005 votes

{quoted}

They have it backwards too. They think higher risk, higher reward will make more aggression in pro play. What they should actually do is boost low risk, low reward aggression, but they've actually consistently nerfed that. You see that in pro play where laning is boring and mundane because the only option is to go ham for the big play and get all the reward. Up until then they just cs the same while either holding the lane in the middle or trading wave crashes under their tower.

This 100% you'd think they'd figure it out eventually lol its kinda obvious

Verxint11 votes

They seem to think reward drives aggression, not risk. Keep upping the reward and surely people will be aggressive all the time, right?

I know this is a different genre of game, but the principles of risk and reward are pretty universal in pvp. Look at the first match in this series (about 5m in) https://youtu.be/5GMojaTtOO8

These are two of the best players playing in a tournament for a cash prize, so you know it's serious. Look how aggressive they both are. Within 2 minutes, they're already making moves and engaging each other. It's exciting to watch.

Notice how they don't need to reap a massive game changing reward for every aggressive success, nor do they need to take a huge risk to be aggressive. They're aggressive because the game allows them to do so in a meaningful way without taking a huge risk in return for a meaningful, but not utterly gameshifting, advantage. This is what riot needs to take note on. You don't have to reward aggression with huge payoffs to encourage it. You need to make it possible to make small aggressive manuvers, even at the top level of play, for small rewards.

Minimac20001 votes

{quoted}

They seem to think reward drives aggression, not risk. Keep upping the reward and surely people will be aggressive all the time, right?

I know this is a different genre of game, but the principles of risk and reward are pretty universal in pvp. Look at the first match in this series (about 5m in) https://youtu.be/5GMojaTtOO8

These are two of the best players playing in a tournament for a cash prize, so you know it's serious. Look how aggressive they both are. Within 2 minutes, they're already making moves and engaging each other. It's exciting to watch.

Notice how they don't need to reap a massive game changing reward for every aggressive success, nor do they need to take a huge risk to be aggressive. They're aggressive because the game allows them to do so in a meaningful way without taking a huge risk in return for a meaningful, but not utterly gameshifting, advantage. This is what riot needs to take note on. You don't have to reward aggression with huge payoffs to encourage it. You need to make it possible to make small aggressive manuvers, even at the top level of play, for small rewards.

yep, you are right

BigFBear8 votes

Also: Fiora is almost impossible to gank if she knows how to use her skills. She can dodge the CC and dash away. I hate to gank her.

Verxint11 votes

That's part of what's stupid about this philosophy. She's supposed to be rewarded for being aggressive but is also good at avoiding ganks and scale like a monster. You can't have everything.

Alzon11 votes

You can't have a champion with an insane lategame and scaling and then try to make them an aggressive laner. It's not compatible.

What item 3095 was item 3095 your item 3095 first item 3095 clue?

Verxint11 votes

Let's not even go there, that item and the situation with marksmen is a complete failure.

La Bello7 votes

Shes. A. LATEGAME. HYPERCARRY. Aggressive laning SHOULD NOT be something she is rewarded for. She should be farming and playing safe during the early game because she is too weak to be aggressive.

Kassadin Caitlyn Yasuo laughs

https://i.imgur.com/ohDKCIO.jpg

Verxint4 votes

Fiora is obviously not the only offender, as you clearly show.

La Bello3 votes

which is a problem. Those champions are constant headaches for the balance team.

FIDDLESTICKS B0T2 votes

Because Kassadin can play aggressive early and Caitlyn is now apparently a hyper carry??

PB4UAME2 votes

I haven't checked recently, but for years and years she's had the highest single target damage in the game at or near a full build-- except for Kog with W against a super high HP and low resist target.

Even more so if firing from a bush, and with a Runaan's to stack headshot even faster.

OHminus2 votes

tbf Cait should be weak when only 1-2 items are completed because she wouldn't have the attack speed to dps nor the attack damage/crit chance to hurt with headshots

But then again, item 3095 exists

Lil Homie busta4 votes

Then again, Yasuo, Vayne and some others go against this logic. How a late game champion is also capable of doing well early against early game champions? This becomes even more obvious with the game stages speedup and early game runes.

It's one of the many problems that League face.

Crownless Exalt1 votes

Fiora is a duelist. Having a weak early game doesn't line up with her theme very well. I do understand her late game is AMAZING, but it doesn't matter if they can't snowball or get to the late game.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Thresh's theme is that he's an unholy torturer seeking to break everyone's mind as maliciously as possible, yet he plays like a hybrid of blitzcrank and amumu to help those around him, instead of trying to kill people with DOTs or inflicting debuffs.

Crownless Exalt1 votes

You are misunderstand the concept of play style theme with lore theme. Yes thresh is this very dark torturer-esk being, but that doesn't connect with the argument at hand. Thresh is a play-making high skill expressive support. The only thing connecting the idea you have brought up would be the fact that that's what his visuals entail.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Perhaps, but what I'm getting at is that lore often doesn't and cannot apply to the game; either by computing logistics, balancing, or absurdity of scale.

Crownless Exalt1 votes

I'm referring to her balancing and her design. She is designed to be a duelist. While "fighter" is her technical tag she has been balanced ever since her rework as a duelist; someone who has the potential to 1v1 anyone. while in some cases fiora might seem overbearing in the balance department, in most she seems okay.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

If she's a duelist, why does she have a massive area heal like janna? Her ultimate should only heal her, that'd be more fitting for her self righteous attitude lol.

Crownless Exalt1 votes

This, I would agree with.

Neptunia xoxo9 votes

Akali problem with this cancer champions design is not only can you not reveal her with things like control wards but she can abuse her shadow timer by leaving then re-entering and once it ends with enough CDR you can hourglass then have your W up again. Her damage is also a complete joke lol like she has extremely high AP and AD scalings and her damage is mixed (meaning does 50% AD and 50% AP damage even if you built full AP) so building against her just feels horrible. Overall her design is just bad and for sure has more balancing problems than the old Akali.

Anatera8 votes

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

CudyDarkyz4 votes

But don't rule out malice.

BlinkZZ1825 votes

All they need to do is to let each team ban 10 champions in ranked. Darius Graves Kassadin Ahri Irelia Akali Sion Evelynn Taliyah TwistedFate MissFortune

hhaavviikk23 votes

[{quoted}](name=UVM ZhaoRiTian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=20RKVnes,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-09-28T15:02:22.024+0000)

All they need to do is to let each team ban 10 champions in ranked. Darius Graves Kassadin Ahri Irelia Akali Sion Evelynn Taliyah TwistedFate MissFortune

or just allow for 10 actual bans in total instead of making it so anywhere between 5 and 10 champs get banned because of double ban bullshit

LTK KoRo1 votes

Good luck in implementing that without making draft phase last 15 minutes

Fermi Paradox3 votes

Why? If everything stays the same but you can see the bans of the enemy and also cannot ban said champs again, it will result in the same ban time window.

GripaAviara5 votes

I don't understand how Pyke and Graves are left in this overpowered state!! It's getting frustrating

And he got a buff? Really?? Pyke A BUFF? ARE THEY NUTTS? Do they even understand how freaking broken and distruptive he is?

Towboat4212 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand how Pyke and Graves are left in this overpowered state!! It's getting frustrating

And he got a buff? Really?? Pyke A BUFF? ARE THEY NUTTS? Do they even understand how freaking broken and distruptive he is?

That's what I want to know, are they really that unaware or are they just really that desperate to make a show out of worlds this year.

Ryusaether1 votes

I mean, I understand Graves, but how is Pyke broken? He is pretty balanced, ofc he is frustrating to deal with because he is super slippery but 50 more damage on his early ult treshold is pretty fine since it feels super awful at lvl 6.

Aside his execute (which can be a big deal as much as it can be a wasted spell) he is just a catcher/playmaker supp without the tankiness to engage himself (I know his buildpath but he still suffers from not uniform dmg comps and in general when locked down for some seconds) and without super reliable extra CCs (blitz R and E, Thresh's Flail once he Hooks you) or insane peeling. Catching and killing is all he does, better than they buffed him that way than in other areas.

Percentages2 votes

I don't think supports are supposed to outdamage the ADCs though...

3TWarrior1 votes

they are until the mid or late-mid game though when the ADC has their items

Ryusaether2 votes

That never happens, though?

(Unless the adc is afk or utter garbage)

EDIT: sorry, wanted to abswer to the guy above

GayFluffyUnicorn3 votes

If riot would atleast buff them in a way to actually help them. Darius doesn't need more dmg. Darius needs more ways to actully stay in a fight. Up his healing, grant him tenacity at 5 bleeds whatever. Make him useful outside of lul a lux snare he's dead.

Kha and pyke buffs are just ridiculous.

Fiora also doesn't need a better early game for what she becomes later on.

Nyarlathοtep2 votes

Darius needs more ways to actully stay in a fight.

But juggernauts are supposed to be weak to kiting and cc. Besides you cant really buff him in any way without nerfing his damage. Also lux's snare is not a problem for him. Getting knocked up again and again is the problem. Snares are affected by tenacity.

Verxint2 votes

There's a difference between being weak to kiting and taking 80% of your health in 2 seconds of cc and cooldowns are so low your team doesn't even have an opening to take advantage of.

Nyarlathοtep2 votes

Thats a problem with all the damage around. If riot buffed a bit durability, things might take a turn for the best.

Verxint4 votes

And that's the point. If they actually feel Darius needs a buff (I disagree there, but for the sake of argument), they should buff his ability to live, not just give him more damage.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

Thats not an optimal choice too you know. It sucks the every living fuck when you get a darius low, and then he lands a q at 2 champs, and heals for a shit tons of damage. And he will be able to do it again in 4 seconds. Bonus shit points if you are racing to kill him before he gets 5 stacks and proceeds to dunk everyone.

Verxint2 votes

And this is where you fail at reading. I don't think he needs a buff.

But, if riot insists he needs a buff, his survivability, particularly in teamfights, not in lane, is what they should boost. For example, make his Q healing able to stack on 5 targets, but change it to be less than it currently is on 1 and 2 targets.

Giving him more damage on his W and pen on his E is just going to make it so dodging his Q is less impactful.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

And you fail to use common sense. In which world is it possible to land your edge q on 5 champs? 4 maybe and even then it would be hard. As such if he got an nerf on 1 and 2 targets it would end up being an overall nerf since landing on more targets consistently is very unlikely.

They shouldnt touch darius at all. Just add a new item with tenacity and his class is ready to go.

Verxint2 votes

I have 500k mastery on Darius, it's possible to hit 4 people and hitting 3 regularly in a big should be the standard for absorbing high damage. The point of this change is to emphasize power into the interactive parts of his kit, not just buffing the raw damage on his autoattack reset. If it hurts him that badly, you can add a level factor (Darius' level, not the skill rank) to the Q's healing so it ends up the same on 1 and 2 targets once he reaches lategame. Or reduce the cooldown to further emphasize consecutive successful multitarget hits.

My point is that there's a lot of ways to buff Darius that encourage more skill expression than giving him flat damage numbers in the two least interactive parts of his kit.

Dope Solo2 votes

Yasuo Zed

Towboat4214 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dope Solo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=20RKVnes,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-09-28T22:08:47.474+0000)

Yasuo Zed

Honestly these two are honorable mentions, yas scales hard and roughs you up in the laning phase but most of the people playing him are idiots so it balances out. Zed on the other hand has to do so little to get rewarded its ridiculous, with electrocute, his passive and ignite landing skill shots becomes optional.

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