I can't believe I'm saying this but armor does absolutely nothing

overpoweredscrub··1 votes·1,514 views

Before I begin, I have to say I hated tank meta. It was one of the worse things. The fact that you can do damage while being insane hard to kill, to the point where you could tank nexus towers and 5 champs and still be taunting and dancing while they hit you but also still dealing a good amount of damage. That was stupid to play against especially when someone could get that strong even though they were feeding all game since defensive items are cheaper than offensive.

But as of now, armor literally does nothing. You can have 100 armor and have physical damage reduced by 50 percent, doesn't even matter. Someone could build full damage, literally no last whisper or black cleaver and still shred you. It's kind of ridiculous and there's no point in building armor imo anymore unless maybe you are playing taric and rammus. I could have 300 armor, 300 magic resist, 3k or more hp and still melt in a matter of 5 seconds during a teamfight or if i get caught out.

I do however think that being tanky is a good thing that should still exist, but to balance this, any items that give health, armor, magic resist should reduce the amount of damage you can deal. This is the only way to make tanks fair because if you make them hard to kill, they will still have a lot of damage in their base stats and abilities vs a squishy adc, mage, assassin. If an item makes you harder to kill but makes you deal less damage, it would be fair since you sacrifice damage for incredible survivability. During the tank meta, adcs were having trouble doing damage to tanks relative to how much tanks did to adcs. The keyword is relativity. Even if an adc was hitting for 500 damage, the tank had more health while if the tank hit the adc for let's say 300 damage, the tank is winning since the adc has a lot less health. So even if the adc was technically dealing more damage, the tank is actually dealing more damage percentage wise because the adc has a lower health pool. The reason for this is because base health and resistances are vulnerable to base damage and abilities, while high resist and health was very resistant to high damage. That's why during the tank meta, everyone was building tank because it made those building offense to do very little damage to them, while they were able to do damage to people building offense because they were squishy.

Good example is how defensive build will beat offensive build in a 1v1 and is cheaper back in the older seasons. I played katarina vs katarina mid once, and I was building offensive items like death cap and void staff, but I got my ass kicked because the other kat rushed banshees. Keep in mind this was the old banshee that didn't give ap but rather just magic resist, health, and the shield. I understand why I lost the 1v1 but it's stupid that the other kat can beat me buying a defensive item that gives no offensive stats vs me going full offense. I think in a 1v1, the person going offensive should win against a person going defensive. The only reason you go defensive is if you are losing lane, you want to survive as long as possible to provide utility and crowd control, or you want to tank for your team. It shouldn't be that you build defensive to win 1v1s. That's just kind of stupid. The only reason it works that way is because base health and resistances lose to base damage and abilties so that's why I was losing to a kat who rushed old banshees while I went void staff or rabadons first. But in my opinion, it should not be that way.

I loved being tanky and hard to kill in older seasons, but definitely felt it was not fair that I could hurt squishy people without building any offensive items. So a good way to balance this is just to make tanks very tanky again, or at least a little more tanky than they are now, at the cost of them dealing less damage when they build those tanky items because those tanky items will reduce your damage by either a flat amount or percentage. Maybe make the defensive items lower your ad/ap. Or make it just have you deal 10 percent less damage etc. That would make it fair but not make you useless as a tank because you will still have disrupting abilities like stuns slows knock ups. A tank shouldn't be able to 1v1 someone going offensive in an all out fight, but a tank should be able to be hard to kill and tank towers and objectives.

15 Comments

AlienPrimate2 votes

You should die in a matter of 5 seconds if you are focussed by 5 people, no matter what your build is. The notion that you should be invincible when building tank is just wrong. The job of a tank when building defense is to survive long enough to soak up some high value cooldowns. If in those 5 seconds that you survive (when a squishy would survive for less than 1 second) you manage to eat up half of the enemy team's cooldowns then your team should be able to follow up for a relatively easy fight. I've had plenty of times when building full tank that I die in a few seconds but it doesn't matter. In most of those cases my team proceeds to wipe the enemy team in a 5-1 ace because the enemy wasted everything killing me.

overpoweredscrub1 votes

{quoted}

You should die in a matter of 5 seconds if you are focussed by 5 people, no matter what your build is. The notion that you should be invincible when building tank is just wrong. The job of a tank when building defense is to survive long enough to soak up some high value cooldowns. If in those 5 seconds that you survive (when a squishy would survive for less than 1 second) you manage to eat up half of the enemy team's cooldowns then your team should be able to follow up for a relatively easy fight. I've had plenty of times when building full tank that I die in a few seconds but it doesn't matter. In most of those cases my team proceeds to wipe the enemy team in a 5-1 ace because the enemy wasted everything killing me.

cooldowns? hah! what cooldowns do adcs have? lol. That just goes back to my point. There's no reason to build tanky when you die that fast imo. I'd rather just build glass cannon and do as much damage as possible instead of die in 5 seconds as a tank but abysmal damage.

AlienPrimate1 votes

The point of building tanky is to die in 5 seconds when focused by 5 people instead of dying in 1 second when focused by 1 person. Someone who is alive does infinitely more damage than someone who is dead unless they are Karthus or Sion. If you keep getting one shot by an assassin as an ADC, I guarantee the tank is doing more damage than you.

Kai Guy1 votes

What point in the game? CD for autos is AS related.

overpoweredscrub1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rIIaKHYa,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-08-24T18:27:50.471+0000)

What point in the game? CD for autos is AS related.

The point of not needing to build tanky because even if you build tanky, you die in 5 seconds. I literally wrote my point there lol. Alienprimate said that if you go tanky, you waste enemie's cooldown, but adcs dont really have cooldown because they generally have constant dps from their attack speed. Enough to melt down adcs. So when he said a tank wastes the enemies cooldowns, it doesnt really do that much unless their whole team is cooldown based. But then again, there is a lot of cdr nowadays with no drawback. A lot of items give cdr without you losing out on damage so being tanky just has no real good point anymore imo since almost all tanks die quick in like 5 seconds or less.

Kai Guy2 votes

What point in game was referring to game time. I was gonna provide you an exact value for what the CD on autos are.

Tanky items don't make you unkillable. They make you the best option to body block abilitys that would be high threat to teammates. Tank play patterns revolve around CCing threats and using Defensive skills to midgate otherwise lethal damage. Regardless of role paying attention to your and your teammates positioning matters.

If your dying in under 5 seconds? Post the replay, let community judge you for How well your playing rather then just obey the boards Tilt.

Look to Alien's post. Your not going to turn into some Raid boss with massive hp. Tank metas sucked.

overpoweredscrub1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rIIaKHYa,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-24T23:20:48.580+0000)

What point in game was referring to game time. I was gonna provide you an exact value for what the CD on autos are.

Tanky items don't make you unkillable. They make you the best option to body block abilitys that would be high threat to teammates. Tank play patterns revolve around CCing threats and using Defensive skills to midgate otherwise lethal damage. Regardless of role paying attention to your and your teammates positioning matters.

If your dying in under 5 seconds? Post the replay, let community judge you for How well your playing rather then just obey the boards Tilt.

Look to Alien's post. Your not going to turn into some Raid boss with massive hp. Tank metas sucked.

the reason to buy tank items is so you don't die in a matter of 5 seconds. Since you still die in a matter of 5 seconds with tank items, i feel it's more effective to just build offense and deal as much damage as you can before you die since dying in 2 seconds is almost the same as dying in 5 seconds but better since at 2 seconds, you dealt about 1000+ damage while at 5 seconds going tank, you've dealth about 500. A mere 3 seconds of living longer but dealing less damage makes me feel like it's just better to go offensive than go tanky.

Kai Guy1 votes

Yea but that's with the assumption your dead in the next 3 seconds when realistically you can live. Time to kill on paper and in practice vary.

2 seconds? Like a pretty large amount of CC in the game has that duration. 5 seconds from a single cast however. . .

Tanks need their kits to function. Dying with out the ability to use your kit the moment some one nails ability is less then ideal for the role. You have to be able to soak damage.

overpoweredscrub1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rIIaKHYa,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-25T04:38:16.894+0000)

Yea but that's with the assumption your dead in the next 3 seconds when realistically you can live. Time to kill on paper and in practice vary.

2 seconds? Like a pretty large amount of CC in the game has that duration. 5 seconds from a single cast however. . .

Tanks need their kits to function. Dying with out the ability to use your kit the moment some one nails ability is less then ideal for the role. You have to be able to soak damage.

I say on paper only because I dont look at my replays and actually count the seconds because who the hell actually cares? But it basically feels like how fast you survive with tank items isn't worth buying it since it's only slightly longer than when you are squishy and to put into perspective, you dont live that long as a squishy. If building tanky also doesnt make you last that long, i personally dont find a point to buying it. You can waste your gold buying it all you want, that's your choice. Me? Im gonna go glass cannon and get kills and do damage since i wont survive long even with tank items

Kai Guy1 votes

And When I am confused by the result of a play I am willing to go and check my replay. Doing this in the past results in me being less confused so now I rarely ever need to check replays.

But good to know your just making up your numbers, I kinda assumed that was the case. Tanks jobs are not to do raw damage but lock down the enemys who do and enable your squishy to become durable via your kit and your positioning.

If you don't like that play style then don't play tanks.

who the hell actually cares

I mean your the guy attempting to justify how you build and play the game. By your own admission you don't have an exact value for what the up time of tank items realistically provides and your not building them anyhow. Not really shure why you think that provides good data or helps you set a realistic expectation to other players.

So... you seem to care a little imo and my opinion for this is formed by how your responding over and over on the topic.

overpoweredscrub1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rIIaKHYa,comment-id=000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-25T18:51:41.538+0000)

And When I am confused by the result of a play I am willing to go and check my replay. Doing this in the past results in me being less confused so now I rarely ever need to check replays.

But good to know your just making up your numbers, I kinda assumed that was the case. Tanks jobs are not to do raw damage but lock down the enemys who do and enable your squishy to become durable via your kit and your positioning.

If you don't like that play style then don't play tanks.

I mean your the guy attempting to justify how you build and play the game. By your own admission you don't have an exact value for what the up time of tank items realistically provides and your not building them anyhow. Not really shure why you think that provides good data or helps you set a realistic expectation to other players.

So... you seem to care a little imo and my opinion for this is formed by how your responding over and over on the topic.

I've made my point. If you don't understand then idk what to tell you.

Kai Guy1 votes

Your point is supported by numbers admitted you made up and you told me you don't actually take the time to check what happens if it was confusing so your gonna be unaware of any misplays you missed the first time.

You don't care? that's the point you want to make? after making this thread and responding over and over and over again?

I do agree that you tried to make your point. I just think it was weak and you did not think this out very well.

overpoweredscrub1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rIIaKHYa,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-25T19:10:02.770+0000)

Your point is supported by numbers admitted you made up and you told me you don't actually take the time to check what happens if it was confusing so your gonna be unaware of any misplays you missed the first time.

You don't care? that's the point you want to make? after making this thread and responding over and over and over again?

I do agree that you tried to make your point. I just think it was weak and you did not think this out very well.

what am i supposed to tell you? If you can't understand that I don't think tank items are worth buying because you can still die in 5 seconds? What more do you want?

Modl Ryden l2 votes

{quoted}

You should die in a matter of 5 seconds if you are focussed by 5 people, no matter what your build is. The notion that you should be invincible when building tank is just wrong. The job of a tank when building defense is to survive long enough to soak up some high value cooldowns. If in those 5 seconds that you survive (when a squishy would survive for less than 1 second) you manage to eat up half of the enemy team's cooldowns then your team should be able to follow up for a relatively easy fight. I've had plenty of times when building full tank that I die in a few seconds but it doesn't matter. In most of those cases my team proceeds to wipe the enemy team in a 5-1 ace because the enemy wasted everything killing me.

This. It seems that everyone that asks for tank buffs are asking for tanks to become the equivalent of an MMORPG raid boss tank. And that's not how team fights in LoL work. There's isn't a single target to DPS down with waves of ads, it's another team.

Also, to the OP, your value of Armor dips as you buy more and more. You cannot just go pure armor and expect to be invincible. Systems were put into place to prevent that. This is a PVP game where the objective it to kill enemy champions and conquer their nexus. It wouldn't be a MOBA if every tank could achieve 100% damage reduction easy. That wouldn't be a game at all.

GayrensTari1 votes

Armor is supposed to be less than damage obviously otherwise you don't need to be skilled!

More from Gameplay

More by overpoweredscrub