Summoner's rift passive gold that everyone gets

overpoweredscrub··12 votes·6,661 views

Are you all fine with how much gold people get naturally? Or do you think it's a bit much?

I'm a big advocate for skill and I feel like back in season 3, if you couldn't cs or get kills, you were very behind on gold and would be weak for most of the game. And this promoted skill because you either had to be good at laning, or farming. Nowadays, I feel like someone could play like shit all game but still be relevant. Some extreme examples of this are when a zed can go 0/12 but still kill or almost kill an adc 1v1. Or when a katarina who has 50 cs at 20 mins into the game in mid who is 0/4 can just come back quickly from a few kill steals. An udyr top who is 0/7 with 100 cs at 20 mins could still be a threat to the team as a split pusher annoyance.

I also feel like the bounty system undermines good play as well. It basically punishes you for playing good. You can even get a bounty simply for farming really well which is stupid. I've had games where I had zero kills but had a 300 gold bounty cuz i was farming well which is stupid. Why do I get punished for playing good? I think gold should be earned through good play like farming, getting kills, getting objectives. Not given freely from bounty like that.

And again back to original topic, i feel like the amount of gold everyone gets passively is too good. I'm not talking about people buying gold income items like support items or how it used to be where people had gold per time runes. I just be naturally everyone has so much gold passively. A support with zero cs and zero support item, can still have almost around the same gold as an adc at 10 mins. In the scenario where an adc farmed for 10 minutes and got about say 100 cs? They will only be above their support by about 2000 ish gold? Yes that is a large difference, but that equates to about 1 item difference. Considering that at 10 minutes an adc will have about 2 and a half items, the support could have a full item. Put into perspective, a zed mid could have as much cs as the support, maybe like 20 at 10 minutes because he had a bad lane, but has enough passive gold to buy youmuus or duskblade from the passive gold, which he got from just passage of time not from what he farmed or got kills from, and he could deal 50 percent or kill an adc 1v1 like that. I think it's stupid and the zed just be a joke to the adc in a 1v1 scenario because the adc has 100 farm at 10 minutes while zed has 20. Even if the adc has the slight advantage, they still have to be scared and respect the zed because if they mess up, zed can kill them easily. Back in season 3, if you were behind by 20 cs, you would die to your laner anytime you try to 1v1 them. That's how the game should be. Maybe not 20 cs difference is an automatic win, but i feel like if someone is farming well or getting kills, they should be rewarded more and someone who is doing bad should be weak and irrelevant and must play very safe and defensive. Nowadays, a 0/5 katarina can become a 12/5 kat at the end of the game even though you shut her down from the start of the game. A 0/12 zed and still fuck adcs up free if your support and team dont peel like crazy. but in low elo guess what? When you are fed as adc and zed comes after you, what do your team do? They are like "hah the adc got this, it's just an 0/12 zed". Then zed kills the adc. Meanwhile in the scenario where your adc is 0/8 and a 12/0 zed comes after your adc? Your teammates be like "hey we have to help the adc quick!" They cc the zed and zed dies, gives away bounty and your team wins game. It's kind of dumb.

85 Comments

PhantomPrankster3 votes

what pisses me off about league is the fact that i can be out farming someone by 20 but still be on their level or lower despite neither of us having kills or assists. that shit wack.

Z3SIeeper3 votes

I disagree because lane bullies already dominate the meta because damage is outright disgusting and runes heavily favor early game champions.

Many simply don't have the option of contesting for cs just because they had to pick before their enemy. It's the entire basis of top lane.

overpoweredscrub2 votes

{quoted}

I disagree because lane bullies already dominate the meta because damage is outright disgusting and runes heavily favor early game champions.

Many simply don't have the option of contesting for cs just because they had to pick before their enemy. It's the entire basis of top lane.

you know there was a thing that's been a thing since season 1 when you are up against lane bullies? It's called hug turret. Farm under tower. It's not that hard.

ZephyrDrake4 votes

{quoted}

you know there was a thing that's been a thing since season 1 when you are up against lane bullies? It's called hug turret. Farm under tower. It's not that hard.

You know what also happened those times? Enemy froze near turret, you go close to at least get exp, get jumped and die.

overpoweredscrub2 votes

{quoted}

You know what also happened those times? Enemy froze near turret, you go close to at least get exp, get jumped and die.

one word. wards.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

one word. wards.

Yeah, I forgot that junglers have one route to ganking you in top lane and that the enemy laner isn't the one who will jump and beat your face into the ground.

overpoweredscrub2 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, I forgot that junglers have one route to ganking you in top lane and that the enemy laner isn't the one who will jump and beat your face into the ground.

haha so what good are wards then? Are you saying wards are useless? LMFAO. Get good at warding noob. If you are at max exp ranged, people aren't gonna flash dash cc kill you when you are worth 50 gold.

Z3SIeeper6 votes

??? Wards don't unfreeze the lane.

Light Burner2 votes

Freezing lane is a skill tho and if your opponent can do it against you, you can also do it against him when the wave pushes back so i dont see the logic to this statement.

Z3SIeeper4 votes

If the enemy is freezing lane, it's cuz they're stronger than you and they know you can't do anything about it.

So what sense does it make to think you can do the same to them? They'll just kill you lmfao. You're hiding under turret for a reason.

Light Burner2 votes

Melee champs can't dive you, so freezing the wave just outside your turret range is a viable option even if theyre stronger. Since they can't straight up dive and if they do try to push it in they open themselves up to ganks so they become vunerable. In melee vs ranged matchups this can be more difficult but again it'll open them up to ganks. So i dont see why you think you cant freeze the wave just outside turret range.

Z3SIeeper3 votes

I'd rather not write the essay on why that's all false (especially "Melee champs can't dive you" LOL).

No offense but what you're saying doesn't apply in high elo.

Edit: Idk about any other elo.

overpoweredscrub2 votes

{quoted}

??? Wards don't unfreeze the lane.

you said if you walk up to soak exp you die. Well obviously wards prevent you from dying cuz u wanna walk up and soak exp. Also, if someone freezes, you just walk down to another lane and "pressure" aka not full on fight the other laner but just keep poking and harrassing and forcing them to blow summons and pots. It's really not that hard. Also, the exp range is really long, so if you are dying, it's cuz you are really fucking bad and don't ward bushes for enemy junglers to gank. The only reason you will die is cuz they have probably a camille with double dash r and a stealth jungler like eve who you cannot see so she can literally run up to top lane through the top side bushes and gank you without you seeing her. The way you say you die for walking up to soak exp and die is silly. I dont think you realize the range of exp range. If they are zoning you from exp range, just play safe because eventually the lane will push forward. And in the meantime, just go help out other lanes while the freezer freezes. If you have the mindset that you have to stay in your lane while someone freezes, that's what you are doing wrong.

Z3SIeeper6 votes

My main champion is someone who can't contest.

I'm Grandmaster, I'm well aware of how to stand back. But you're suggesting nerfing that playstyle and basically buffing all the lane bullies that are forcing me to play like that.

overpoweredscrub2 votes

{quoted}

My main champion is someone who can't contest.

I'm Grandmaster, I'm well aware of how to stand back. But you're suggesting nerfing that playstyle and basically buffing all the lane bullies that are forcing me to play like that.

How is it a nerf to your playstyle? Everyone is going to be weaker. How is the bully gonna dive you under turret if everyone is so weak because they have less passive gold? I play nasus bitch. Nasus is weak early and has to hug turret all early game. Doesn't mean he is completely useless and snowballed to death. You just hug your turret and farm under tower and wait for late game. It's not that hard. Reducing passive gold will not nerf your late game champ, it will nerf everything and make the game more slow paced unlike the clown fuck fiesta it is now being a face paced snowball game. If anything, less passive gold will only make you stronger because you will reach higher levels faster while your lane bully has less gold to dive you. Example. At level 6, instead of your bully having a full item and diving you under your turret, he will have less because of passive gold and will not be strong enough to kill you while you reach level 6+ because your bully isnt strong enough to kill you yet under tower because lack of passive gold.

5050BS3 votes

Sure ok. Lets make sure EVERYONE can wave clear at no Mana cost then. Problem solved.

overpoweredscrub2 votes

{quoted}

Sure ok. Lets make sure EVERYONE can wave clear at no Mana cost then. Problem solved.

technically everyone can wave clear at no mana cost. auto attacks. What does wave clearing with no mana cost have to do with hugging turret tho? the fuck?

Rock MD2 votes

{quoted}

you know there was a thing that's been a thing since season 1 when you are up against lane bullies? It's called hug turret. Farm under tower. It's not that hard.

I really like the part where you're trying to tell a Grandmaster toplaner how to play his role.

overpoweredscrub2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HPbNwT1P,comment-id=000700000003,timestamp=2019-08-27T04:30:55.928+0000)

I really like the part where you're trying to tell a Grandmaster toplaner how to play his role.

lol wtf? Are you his buttbuddy? Who the hell is the grandmaster top laner? First of all, im saying he can hug turrets and farm under tower, it's not hard. How the fuck is that me telling him how to play his role? If he is ahead there's no need to hug turret. If he is behind, then hug turret. It's advice. If you don't wanna hug turret then fine, but it's no wonder you keep dying like dog shit for being grandmaster top laner

Darkdemon6532 votes

Given how ridiculously hard this game snowballs, I'd rather have passive gold generation increased and gold from CS and kills slightly decreased. Obviously, there has to be a nice balance between active and passive gold generation and I don't know what the limits are, but I suspect bringing them together would be an improvement.

overpoweredscrub2 votes

{quoted}

Given how ridiculously hard this game snowballs, I'd rather have passive gold generation increased and gold from CS and kills slightly decreased. Obviously, there has to be a nice balance between active and passive gold generation and I don't know what the limits are, but I suspect bringing them together would be an improvement.

I think you are entitled to your own opinion i will respect that. But I personally think, if cs gives less gold and more people get passive gold generation, it's not really about skill at that point. It really isn't that hard to farm I agree, but there are a large amount of players who actually suck at farming. There would almost be no point in farming if say farming cs only gives you enough gold for 1 extra long sword or 1 extra ruby crystal ahead of your opponent. Sure that made a different in older seasons, but it wasn't super team based because if you had a lead, you could snowball and carry. Now, just having a long sword or ruby crystal lead to your opponent doesnt really matter because your lead is so small and you cant solo carry. So it wouldnt make a big difference to farm. I believe there should be skill in the game. If someone wants to be stupid and let all their minions die under tower while they do a stupid roam into the enemy jungle, that's their loss for roaming and losing minions under tower. If someone cant farm while someone else is farming, the person farming should be rewarded with a huge lead and better dueling potential than the person who wasnt farming. That's my opinion.

Exin01 votes

{quoted}

I think you are entitled to your own opinion i will respect that. But I personally think, if cs gives less gold and more people get passive gold generation, it's not really about skill at that point. It really isn't that hard to farm I agree, but there are a large amount of players who actually suck at farming. There would almost be no point in farming if say farming cs only gives you enough gold for 1 extra long sword or 1 extra ruby crystal ahead of your opponent. Sure that made a different in older seasons, but it wasn't super team based because if you had a lead, you could snowball and carry. Now, just having a long sword or ruby crystal lead to your opponent doesnt really matter because your lead is so small and you cant solo carry. So it wouldnt make a big difference to farm. I believe there should be skill in the game. If someone wants to be stupid and let all their minions die under tower while they do a stupid roam into the enemy jungle, that's their loss for roaming and losing minions under tower. If someone cant farm while someone else is farming, the person farming should be rewarded with a huge lead and better dueling potential than the person who wasnt farming. That's my opinion.

If you rise ambient cash flow on expense of farming it will promote more fighting, snowballing and roaming it should be opposite. Assassins, lane bullies and champions capable work on budget will thrive and while it can look good more passive gold when you are have hard time in lane dont forget your opponent is still having better income. This game is already derailing from objectives to senseless deathmatch.

overpoweredscrub2 votes

{quoted}

If you rise ambient cash flow on expense of farming it will promote more fighting, snowballing and roaming it should be opposite. Assassins, lane bullies and champions capable work on budget will thrive and while it can look good more passive gold when you are have hard time in lane dont forget your opponent is still having better income. This game is already derailing from objectives to senseless deathmatch.

Do you think people liked it better when it was snowball and skill based with solo carry potential in season 1-3? Or do you think more people like it the way it is now? I am a veteran player who believes the old way in season 3 was better with solo carry potential that rewarded good play and skill. It also made it more competitive because people in ranked actually gave a fuck and played very serious at least when I played ranked back then because if someone was feeding, it was basically game over. So most people don't feed and if they died, it was very few deaths in the 1 digits and not the current deaths today with one player always having 2 digit deaths in every game now. I don't play ranked now but i hear it's a clown fuck in ranked too now from a few board posts I've read.

MasterDClone2 votes

Its always been a clown fiesta, and the boards have always complained as that is the sole purpose of the boards

overpoweredscrub2 votes

{quoted}

Its always been a clown fiesta, and the boards have always complained as that is the sole purpose of the boards

In a casual game yes. But In ranked games in season 3 was a lot less clown fiesta. Even in lcs it's not clown fiesta. In casual games in season 3, it was more of someone feeding and then 1 person getting fed and solo carrying. If people didn't play so stupid then that wouldnt happen. That's why in lcs you dont usually see someone super fed because everyone else will try their best not to play stupid and feed. It is definitely not always a clown fuck fiesta unless by "always" you mean now in the current season cuz you arent a veteran player. The current league is a joke to those who play old league that had more skill. It is a fact that league now is more teambased now than it was back then in older seasons. The fact that it's teambased means individual skill matters less than team coordination. Someone could be really good but can't do anything if their team sucks.

Exin01 votes

{quoted}

Do you think people liked it better when it was snowball and skill based with solo carry potential in season 1-3? Or do you think more people like it the way it is now? I am a veteran player who believes the old way in season 3 was better with solo carry potential that rewarded good play and skill. It also made it more competitive because people in ranked actually gave a fuck and played very serious at least when I played ranked back then because if someone was feeding, it was basically game over. So most people don't feed and if they died, it was very few deaths in the 1 digits and not the current deaths today with one player always having 2 digit deaths in every game now. I don't play ranked now but i hear it's a clown fuck in ranked too now from a few board posts I've read.

Iam not mind reader but i can say community is splitted half want slow tactic game half killing galore and riot main problem from which everything else stem is they cannot decide which way to choose. Whole thing is stalled on halfway and isnt moving anywhere and people are pissed because nobody is getting what it wants. And for rest of your post i dont know what are u trying to say. Its about how are always teammates bad apes and solo carry should be pushed more?

overpoweredscrub1 votes

{quoted}

Iam not mind reader but i can say community is splitted half want slow tactic game half killing galore and riot main problem from which everything else stem is they cannot decide which way to choose. Whole thing is stalled on halfway and isnt moving anywhere and people are pissed because nobody is getting what it wants. And for rest of your post i dont know what are u trying to say. Its about how are always teammates bad apes and solo carry should be pushed more?

something like that yes. I think that bad teammates can never really be fixed. But I just miss how the game used to be how it was more about skill back then. Now it's not really about skill. Like yes skill does matter a little, but what's more important is team coordination and the champions you pick. Champ selection has always been a thing so my idea won't fix that. But back then the game was more skill based because you were never strong unless you had a lot of farm or kills. If you were behind, you couldn't just magically catch up from bounty gold and all the passive gold generated without gold regen items or runes. I never really bought gold regen items when runes had it or there were items that gave passive gold, but it wasn't really a big deal when i was playing as mostly supports bought those. I didnt live in the era of heart of gold when everyone was buying it. But I do miss how back then games were longer paced because most people didn't play like apes in a competitive scene and gold was mainly given to those who were doing really well. It wasn't handed to people easily like it is today. You either farmed for a good 10-20 minutes, or beat your enemy in lane and kill them a good 4-5 times. Now if you beat someone 4-5 times, they can easily shut you down and get bounty gold. It's not hard to shut down someone because 2v1 scenario is easier than it used to be. Back then, if you were ahead, you had potential to 1v2 or 1v3 better as a reward for doing good in lane.

Exin01 votes

{quoted}

something like that yes. I think that bad teammates can never really be fixed. But I just miss how the game used to be how it was more about skill back then. Now it's not really about skill. Like yes skill does matter a little, but what's more important is team coordination and the champions you pick. Champ selection has always been a thing so my idea won't fix that. But back then the game was more skill based because you were never strong unless you had a lot of farm or kills. If you were behind, you couldn't just magically catch up from bounty gold and all the passive gold generated without gold regen items or runes. I never really bought gold regen items when runes had it or there were items that gave passive gold, but it wasn't really a big deal when i was playing as mostly supports bought those. I didnt live in the era of heart of gold when everyone was buying it. But I do miss how back then games were longer paced because most people didn't play like apes in a competitive scene and gold was mainly given to those who were doing really well. It wasn't handed to people easily like it is today. You either farmed for a good 10-20 minutes, or beat your enemy in lane and kill them a good 4-5 times. Now if you beat someone 4-5 times, they can easily shut you down and get bounty gold. It's not hard to shut down someone because 2v1 scenario is easier than it used to be. Back then, if you were ahead, you had potential to 1v2 or 1v3 better as a reward for doing good in lane.

Just think about it, what if in general players arent better or worse then before game was just more forgiving and getting killed dont immediately set up you to lose path. Now its not that generous, recovery is super hard and yes one death can cost you lane and even game so no surprise people are more trolling and throwing and wanting be solo carries. But how far you want to go with this one man army? not only its against core premise of game but if its constantly pushed what left for others? one player will have fun and live his rambo fantasy and rest will hate it. In MP game you cannot disregard everyone and setup them just as passive bystanders for you to get play.

Light Burner2 votes

So you want more gold given for less skill and less gold given for more skill.

Darkdemon6532 votes

[{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HPbNwT1P,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-08-27T00:49:50.942+0000)

So you want more gold given for less skill and less gold given for more skill.

While that's true in one way, it's also false in another. I don't want a small lead to allow a player to make bad decisions and play with reckless abandon while being completely protected because of one small mistake from an opponent early in the game.

Light Burner2 votes

I dont think im quite following your line of logic here. I went back through the previous responses to see if there was something said there but i still dont get it. Like i feel i know what you're trying to referring to but i dont think the idea you're alluding to would be valid support for this discussion.

Like whats the small mistake thats protecting an opponent in the early game? If you're referring to early game champs vs late game champs i can understand that idea but im not sure if thats what you're referring to here.

Furthermore, what "small" lead allows a player to "to make bad decisions and play with reckless abandon"?

I feel like im just confused on what you're trying to say here.

Darkdemon6532 votes

[{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HPbNwT1P,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2019-08-27T01:36:07.440+0000)

I dont think im quite following your line of logic here. I went back through the previous responses to see if there was something said there but i still dont get it. Like i feel i know what you're trying to referring to but i dont think the idea you're alluding to would be valid support for this discussion.

Like whats the small mistake thats protecting an opponent in the early game? If you're referring to early game champs vs late game champs i can understand that idea but im not sure if thats what you're referring to here.

Furthermore, what "small" lead allows a player to "to make bad decisions and play with reckless abandon"?

I feel like im just confused on what you're trying to say here.

The mistake could be anything - warding two seconds too late and having the enemy jungler be there, failure to dodge a skillshot, getting minion blocked resulting in taking more damage than one should have, etc. The problem is one of those mistakes can be very easily capitalized upon and result in a huge lead even though no further mistakes are made. Once this lead is established, the player with the lead can make much larger and more numerous mistakes and still be just fine because the opponent is no longer in a position to punish.

Reducing gold and experience from kills and CS and increasing ambient gold and experience (or increasing catch-up experience) by some amounts would be one potential way of many to help reduce the problem of how ridiculous snowball is in this game.

Light Burner2 votes

Well mistakes can't be judged small or large because a mistake is a mistake. There are players who will punish you and players who wont. If you are punished for a mistake then the enemy player is playing well.

One of your mistakes you listed warding 2 seconds late. You either warded or you didnt honestly, warding after you get ganked doesnt mean you've been warding correctly because the dmg is done already from the gank, but i see what you mean.

We'd have to define what a huge lead is because lets say you die on one of these mistakes, its not too difficult to come back from or play safe if you manage the wave and wait for a gank or build tankier. So i dont feel the lead is huge.

"Once this lead is established, the player with the lead can make much larger and more numerous mistakes and still be just fine because the opponent is no longer in a position to punish." This part is natural tho. When you're ahead you're allowed to play more aggressively without being punished. Like i said earlier once you make the mistake the dmg is done to your lane, you have to accept you're now behind and either need help from a teammate or need your opponent to misjudge his power for you to turn it back on him, Thats the advantage of having a lead.

What im trying to say is if the opponent cant play more aggressive because they got a lead then whats the point of an advantage?

Now if you reduce gold and experience from kills and cs and increase ambient gold you're basically saying kill off all early game champs and allow late game champs to dominate the meta. Which means whichever team picks more late game champions wins, Jinx already is pretty strong in the meta as well as ezreal and kaisa. You'd be adding champions like twitch and kog'maw to this. Assassins would fall off faster so mages will dominate mid lane and roaming would become next to useless. Junglers will have to change their entire playstyle from a gank heavy playstyle to a more passive farming and counter jungling playstyle centered around plating minions and dragons. There'd be no incentive to kill your laner so you're free to pve farm then with no repercussion to deaths.

Darkdemon6532 votes

[{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HPbNwT1P,comment-id=000200010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-27T02:03:35.443+0000)

What im trying to say is if the opponent cant play more aggressive because they got a lead then whats the point of an advantage?

No one is suggesting making leads mean nothing. The problem is leads are too easy to establish and too hard to overcome.

Vlada Cut2 votes

Is only annoying on 1 item Spike Champions. item 3031 Jinx item 3146 Akali item 3153 Vayne

overpoweredscrub2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlada Cut,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HPbNwT1P,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-08-26T21:14:59.761+0000)

Is only annoying on 1 item Spike Champions. item 3031 Jinx item 3146 Akali item 3153 Vayne

it's funny because for akali and vayne, they could probably get those items at around 10 mins probably mainly from just passive gold. Not even from farming. For the instance of zed or wukong support, at 10 minutes they probably will have a full item even with no cs, but have enough damage to get the enemy adc to half health or death alone. Then when you combine their damage from zero cs with the adc who has been farming, that's a lot of damage and plenty to kill the enemy adc twice over.

Kanzler2 votes

Let's check the math on that.

Passive gold is 120 per minute. 10 minutes = 1200 passive gold + 500 starting gold for a total of 1700 gold at 10 minutes with 0 farm.

That's a bilgewater cutlas. Not a full bork.

overpoweredscrub2 votes

{quoted}

Let's check the math on that.

Passive gold is 120 per minute. 10 minutes = 1200 passive gold + 500 starting gold for a total of 1700 gold at 10 minutes with 0 farm.

That's a bilgewater cutlas. Not a full bork.

A bilgewater cutlace is more than enough to kill an adc as a zed. What is the adc gonna have at 10 minutes? Ie? Bork? doesn't matter. The zed or wukong will easily kill the adc with an unfinished item vs the adcs 1 finished item alone.

Teh Song2 votes

When it comes down to it, at current the game is SO snowbally that literally any change that would make the game more snowbally is a terrible idea. Nerfing passive gold would make the game more snowbally, so it's a terrible idea. Hypothetically, if in the future the game wasn't already so snowbally for other reasons they could alter the "where gold comes from" ratio as you like but not now they can't.

overpoweredscrub2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Teh Song,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HPbNwT1P,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-08-27T03:32:03.335+0000)

When it comes down to it, at current the game is SO snowbally that literally any change that would make the game more snowbally is a terrible idea. Nerfing passive gold would make the game more snowbally, so it's a terrible idea. Hypothetically, if in the future the game wasn't already so snowbally for other reasons they could alter the "where gold comes from" ratio as you like but not now they can't.

Think about it though. If everyone got less gold, how does that make the game go faster? It would slow down the pace of the game. Because most people will not have that much gold to end the game so quick. Most people will focus on farming more and playing well like older seasons.

MasterDClone2 votes

About the bounty system, it isn't meant to be seen as punishing you for playing well, more just as a reward for the enemy who kills an opponent that is stronger than him. Why shouldn't an 0/3 syndra not get rewarded for killing the 3/0 zed, she was fighting at gold disadvantage and manage to skill a win.

Also you do understand the different between early game champs and late game champs, because with the changes you are suggesting, early game champs would hard dominate the meta because it would be a whoever wins the lane wins the game which is completely stupid if you have a scaling team or are counter picked because then there is nothing you can do but just wait till 15 to ff because there is no point in playing a game with absolutely no comeback potential. Don't think that these changes would fix anything but actually just remove half the pool of champions to pick from and make an already rather snowball meta into first blood=gg. and this has nothing to do with skill lol

overpoweredscrub2 votes

{quoted}

About the bounty system, it isn't meant to be seen as punishing you for playing well, more just as a reward for the enemy who kills an opponent that is stronger than him. Why shouldn't an 0/3 syndra not get rewarded for killing the 3/0 zed, she was fighting at gold disadvantage and manage to skill a win.

Also you do understand the different between early game champs and late game champs, because with the changes you are suggesting, early game champs would hard dominate the meta because it would be a whoever wins the lane wins the game which is completely stupid if you have a scaling team or are counter picked because then there is nothing you can do but just wait till 15 to ff because there is no point in playing a game with absolutely no comeback potential. Don't think that these changes would fix anything but actually just remove half the pool of champions to pick from and make an already rather snowball meta into first blood=gg. and this has nothing to do with skill lol

How is it not a punishment for playing good? Why do people get bounty if they have zero kills but a lot of cs? How the fuck is that not punishment for playing well? Because I farmed good all game without getting kills, i get a bounty? How is that not a punishment are you fucking kidding me?

Also, it definitely IS a punishment because okay it's fair if a 0/3 kills a 3/0 and gets bonus gold from bounty sure. But guess why it's not fair? Because if a 3/0 kills a 0/3, you get 100 gold total from that gold and constantly it just gets smaller and smaller up to a cap. You can think what you want that oh the 3/0 doesnt need more gold because they are ahead so it's fair. But the fact that he got another kill because he was ahead because he played well but gets less gold as he kills that feeder is just stupid.

Let's say you play rock paper scissors right? So pretend since you've won 10 tournaments in rock paper scissors, you have to beat me 100 times to actually beat me and get 10 bucks while I just have to win once and you lose and i get a large prize money for it of 100,000 dollars. How is it fair that if you beat me more, you get less while i beat you less and i get so much more money?

Keep in mind that the old system promoted skill because if you killed someone multiple times, you actually get more and more gold every kill rather than less per kill. Yes it was snowbally but it means the other person can't play stupid and constantly feeding. They had to play more defensive and smart.

thirdchris2 votes

You gain 20 gold every 10 seconds, roughly. If you were to literally AFK for 30 minutes, you could buy your first core item. Shit, maybe you could start the next item with that big 3600 gold. Get yourself a ruby crystal, too, and go smashing everyone! I'm being sarcastic but sincerely, if an enemy Zed is 0/7 and can solo kill your ADC, it's probably due to poor wave manipulation. That means whoever is killing him is not denying him exp so he's still a level(or two) above your ADC who is probably not picking up solo exp from any source.

But if your ADC is a level(or two) above the Zed, more than likely the Zed will die for attempting. But if it really is that easy, you could always play those champs and exploit those strats, right?

overpoweredscrub2 votes

{quoted}

You gain 20 gold every 10 seconds, roughly. If you were to literally AFK for 30 minutes, you could buy your first core item. Shit, maybe you could start the next item with that big 3600 gold. Get yourself a ruby crystal, too, and go smashing everyone! I'm being sarcastic but sincerely, if an enemy Zed is 0/7 and can solo kill your ADC, it's probably due to poor wave manipulation. That means whoever is killing him is not denying him exp so he's still a level(or two) above your ADC who is probably not picking up solo exp from any source.

But if your ADC is a level(or two) above the Zed, more than likely the Zed will die for attempting. But if it really is that easy, you could always play those champs and exploit those strats, right?

My response to your "you could always play those champs and exploit those strats, right?" is that's exactly why i play zed or wukong support sometimes. I know I can kill the enemy adc without farming because of the passive gold. You only need a serrated dirk or 2-3 long swords to kill or majorly injure the enemy adc as a zed unless he has soraka maybe. Zed just naturally does a lot of damage to adcs and doesnt require much gold to do it. Wukong is a much easier to play than zed having high burst while no skill shots. If they try to focus me i can clone. If they try to ignore the clone and try to get me after stealth, they still have to worry about my adc so they usually back off. At start of game you get 500 gold. You can spend 350 on long sword. By the time you do your first back, you will have more than enough for a long sword or two.

Killer of Night91 votes

I like that people tring to find a way to make the game fell better but what are you're suggesting is the oppositive to what u wanted. By lowering the passive gold you are actually encouraging snowball which include a buff to all the champ that do really well on early midgame such as lanebully (lucian,mf,draven,kennen....) and assassin (zed and katarina for example) since late game champ will need more time to achive their powerspike and tank champ which rely a lot on passive farm will be even more useless. If u wanted a clearly nerf to assassin the best way should be the oppositive which mean lower the gold gained by kill or increase the passive gold generation (honestly the gold generation fell ok for me) but if it's real that a 0/12 zed has beated an adc (i suppose the adc was fed or if he wasn't he had a good support) then the problem isn't the overall gold but just zed which mean to just nerf the champ and not all the system in order to do that. There could be another possibility that the rateo gold for kill is too low but i highly dubt that since snowball seem a bit too much atm.

overpoweredscrub2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Killer of Night9,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HPbNwT1P,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-08-26T19:02:47.110+0000)

I like that people tring to find a way to make the game fell better but what are you're suggesting is the oppositive to what u wanted. By lowering the passive gold you are actually encouraging snowball which include a buff to all the champ that do really well on early midgame such as lanebully (lucian,mf,draven,kennen....) and assassin (zed and katarina for example) since late game champ will need more time to achive their powerspike and tank champ which rely a lot on passive farm will be even more useless. If u wanted a clearly nerf to assassin the best way should be the oppositive which mean lower the gold gained by kill or increase the passive gold generation (honestly the gold generation fell ok for me) but if it's real that a 0/12 zed has beated an adc (i suppose the adc was fed or if he wasn't he had a good support) then the problem isn't the overall gold but just zed which mean to just nerf the champ and not all the system in order to do that. There could be another possibility that the rateo gold for kill is too low but i highly dubt that since snowball seem a bit too much atm.

i played in older seasons where snowball was a big thing. Yet people still played adcs and late game champs for a reason. Of course they gonna suck early but if you farm well and play defensive, you get rewarded with a powerful late game. That's the whole point of late game. I think the game should encourage skill rather than people clown fiesta all day. That's how this game feels like. It's just a bunch of 10 year olds just running around trying to get kills and the team is the one that decides the win, not the individual. I get it, it's a team based game. But there is no skill when a person who cannot farm can still be powerful. Do you think it's any fun when an irelia who goes 0/7 tp down bot and solos the adc? How is that fair? And the irelia has like 70 cs to the adc's 130. Doesnt make sense when the adc is doing better but gets beaten by an irelia who is feeding. Not very fun or skill related.

Teh Song2 votes

{quoted} Doesnt make sense when the adc is doing better but gets beaten by an irelia who is feeding. Not very fun or skill related.

Yes that does make sense because based on the numbers you offered that adc hasn't reached their late game carry scaling threshold yet, so they should absolutely be losing that fight. Then some minutes later when they hit the threshold they should crush her. This particular example isn't about what the Irelia can do, it's about the adc not being supposed to be able to do anything yet.

overpoweredscrub2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Teh Song,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HPbNwT1P,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-08-27T03:26:03.754+0000)

Doesnt make sense when the adc is doing better but gets beaten by an irelia who is feeding. Not very fun or skill related.

Yes that does make sense because based on the numbers you offered that adc hasn't reached their late game carry scaling threshold yet, so they should absolutely be losing that fight. Then some minutes later when they hit the threshold they should crush her. This particular example isn't about what the Irelia can do, it's about the adc not being supposed to be able to do anything yet.

It's because of people like you that a 6/0 adc can get 1v1 and die to someone like zed 0/6. Definitely fair cuz the zed sucks so he just wins. This is why i play zed support. Cuz people think it's so fair so i just abuse zed to kill adcs bot. It works a lot too. I actually win more games as a "troll" support like zed or wukong instead of a nami or sona support.

Magnesium141 votes

Game is too snowbally, automatic gold regen is needed for many reasons. If jungler gets off to a bad strat due to invade or dies in a team fight, its kinda immpossible to get back in the game. Also with bot lane being auto filled so much its needed for both both laners, also gold the support gets thru items are not enough. The whole game would be based of a few lucky plays if gold regen was nerfed, if antything it needs to be buffed, also because of the current ban system being used to ban OP champions instead of counters, bounties are also needed if you cs good.

overpoweredscrub2 votes

{quoted}

Game is too snowbally, automatic gold regen is needed for many reasons. If jungler gets off to a bad strat due to invade or dies in a team fight, its kinda immpossible to get back in the game. Also with bot lane being auto filled so much its needed for both both laners, also gold the support gets thru items are not enough. The whole game would be based of a few lucky plays if gold regen was nerfed, if antything it needs to be buffed, also because of the current ban system being used to ban OP champions instead of counters, bounties are also needed if you cs good.

I'm not saying completely remove the gold regen. I'm talking about reducing it. If a jungler gets invaded by the other jungler, the other jungler should get rewarded for taking the risk of invading no? Because if an enemy jungler invades your jungle, it's easier for your top, mid, or bot to come collapse on the enemy jungler and set the enemy jungler really behind.

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