Qiyana, Akali, and Irelia

The Ecdysiast··3 votes·1,775 views

So, this isn't going to be saying they're broken or underpowered. Just a little discussion about how the issue Irelia and Akali have is for certain going to be a problem for Qiyana as well thanks to the similar style of her kit.

What's wrong, and the reason they got nerfs to the point their overall WR's are near 46%, is that they're actually too easy to master. Akali and Irelia see win rates of 55-57% after only 50 games, when other mechanically difficult champions like Lee Sin or Azir don't see that kind of success until 150 - 200 games.

And it's because they're slightly different. Their mechanics are just as difficult, but once learned lack the same decision making that Lee's, Zed's, Azir's, Kat's, etc. do. Their choice of position matters less since it isn't strictly tied to their damage abilities like Zed's shadows or Kat's daggers, and they don't need to position around moving the enemies like Lee or Azir.

So they trade off a little versatility, a little damage in some areas, in exchange for more consistent strength and ease of mastery. That's why they never reach as high as 60% at the highest levels of play, but have such consistent high performance among people without really enough games to be considered mains, but enough to have learned their unique mechanics.

And it seems Qiyana has exactly the same style of kit. So my guess is she'll get the same treatment.

All numbers from champion.gg

9 Comments

DGAGAAsharpAGD3 votes

Azir, Zed after 60 games in plat+, 55% winrate.

Kata 55% after 40, 57% after 70.

Asol, 60% after 20.

Rengo, 57% after 50.

Kalista, 53% after 50.

Lee, 52% after 60.

Akali, 52% after 70.

Ire, 51% after 80.

Source: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/

too easy to master

Is beyond stupid statment

Akali is one of the if not the hardest champ in the game, what are you talking about, Lee sin is closest to Ire and Akali. They provide so much when mastered that they have to be nerfed in oblivion.

I said that and I'll say it again, champs with such a skill expressions aren't good for game.

Qiyana will land right next to them in future.

PS. Provide your source.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Why did you include a bunch of perfectly average winrates in your attempt to argue?

Leagueofgraphs doesn't have the number you're looking for. Try champion.gg, which actually goes beyond 80.

Like I said, they are mechanically difficult. It's just that you can master them far sooner than Lee or the like because they lack one of the other dimensions of difficulty that he and others have.

Aaaand most importantly... you're agreeing with my point. I said that it's a problem. And that it's the reason they get nerfs. And that it's the reason their overall win rate looks so bad but they keep getting nerfs. You're agreeing with me that it's not good for the game. And that Qiyana is gonna be the same way. So I don't see your problem with it.

Though you're right, I should've stated where I got the numbers in the op.

DGAGAAsharpAGD1 votes

How do you work with champion.gg when it only shows current patch stats?

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

How do you work with champion.gg when it only shows current patch stats?

It shows more than just current patch stats.

And still, you agreed with my points that it's a problem and not good for the game.

DGAGAAsharpAGD1 votes

I agree that we agreed.

I can't find any info on that website, graph that says Winrate % by games played goes to 0 after 51 games(probably bcs no one played 51 games of Akali this patch)

https://i.imgur.com/ir26tew.jpg[/img]

https://i.imgur.com/Upwyf7l.png[/img]

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Yeah, they refresh it every ~6 patches.

Lokiethegod1 votes

{quoted}

Akali is one of the if not the hardest champ in the game, what are you talking about, Lee sin is closest to Ire and Akali. They provide so much when mastered that they have to be nerfed in oblivion.

I said that and I'll say it again, champs with such a skill expressions aren't good for game.

Qiyana will land right next to them in future.

PS. Provide your source.

How is the bad for the game though, as a Lee sin main I find the fact that using good but difficult mechanics to outplay simpler champs to be rewarding, which it is suppose to be, and makes me want to play more and more so I can do it again. I also believe it makes my teammates want to be able to do the same thing so they step up their game as well. Seeing someone pull off a sweet combo makes others think yea that looks really cool but I bet I could do it to since that guy can. If anything high risk high reward play styles draw more people to the game than slow and easy styles. (overall) I found this to be true from all the time I've been playing this game. Every Lee sin, Akali, Draven, Ire, kat, ETC... mains I have met can tell you that they choose those champs to try and master because they saw those plays and it made them want to be able to do it to, As a Lee sin player there is no better feeling than to pull off a sweet q-ward hop-flash kick, on the other teams carry though their tank and then watching the question pings just rain down on you.

IP Masquerena1 votes

Zed? Hard to pick up?

Are you dreaming or drinking?

Zed currently is one of the easiest champs in the game to pick up. Yes, he's not the easiest to master, but hell he's easy to pick up, if he wasn't, he'd actually have negative win rates in at least lower elos, but when his lowest is 50.26% in Silver at 15% play rate, yea, something doesn't add up buddy. (stats from U.GG), and apparently no, good communication and such at higher elos don't shut him down either, at 63% win rate in Challenger at 12% pick rate and around 300 games this patch, yea......Zed ain't hard to learn.

Akali is one of the hardest, so calling her easier to play than Zed just shows how little you know, and last I checked, champion.gg has flawed stats, it takes any game where there's at least 1 of a certain rank and calls the game as belonging in that game. The game I lost yesterday where our Annie was D3, Sivir P3 and enemy Kat D4, rest Silvers and Bronze? Yea, that game on champion.gg would be labeled as D+, so it's not a site I'd care to trust.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

What I said about Akali is simply an explanation for the trends we've seen and the nerfs she's received. She wouldn't see so many nerfs if it weren't true. It seems like you're looking at Akali's "difficulty" solely compared to League. But you're forgetting that people play other games, too. In more general terms, mastering Akali is easier than truly mastering Zed.

As I explained, and why Zed sees even better performance at the highest levels of play, Akali doesn't have to worry about positioning for her spells the way Zed and Kat do. She does have less versatility for that, but in exchange she can perform very well simply by knowing how to play her somewhat tricky style.

You may struggle with Akali's passive, but evidently that does not extend to anyone who plays her consistently.

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