I don't get why everyone is complaining about EVE.

xxxMadLionxxx·Oct 24, 2017·42 votes·3,007 views

She offers a real stalker experience if played right. She can hangout in the enemy jg undetected and ambush them. After taking some damage, she just has to retreat for a bit healing up once her passive kicks in. Once she is healed, she is at it again, looking for her next victim.

Enemies will go crazy looking for her. Forming a man hunt while feeling unsafe because they know she is around in the shadows just waiting for them to split up.

Yea she doesn't have burst at first. Thats fine because her passive gives her insane heal sustain. Its a fair trade off. Once you get and , her burst is real.

The other notable thing is she can do some damage to tanks with her W MR pen. Her W plus the new void staff will be able to do 75% magic pen while dealing massive max health damage. After that she still has some sustain damage from her Q.

Other assassin are not good vs tanks and don't have sustain heal.

I don't get why everyone is complaining about EVE.

123 Comments

NyarlathοtepOct 24, 201715 votes

Enemies will go crazy looking for her. Forming a man hunt while feeling unsafe because they know she is around in the shadows just waiting for them to split up.

Not with this big ass reveal radius.

insane heal sustain

HAHAHAHA. Only if you have a lots of ap. Otherwise it just useless.

The other notable thing is she can do some damage to tanks with her W MR pen. Her W plus the new void staff will be able to do 75% magic pen while dealing massive max health damage. After that she still has some sustain damage from her Q.

Yea because we all know that assassin's job is to kill tanks. Also where the fk is her sustain on q? She has no sustain or at least in combat.

I don't get why everyone is complaining about EVE.

Because is an assassin that hunts tanks, has no gap closer, shitty early, mediocre late, low burst and a bad bad sustain in jungle.

Sad ChihuahuaOct 24, 20179 votes

Also where the fk is her sustain on q? She has no sustain or at least in combat.

After that she still has some sustain damage from her Q.

OP said sustain DAMAGE not hp sustain.

NyarlathοtepOct 24, 20175 votes

My god im blind.

Velzard of KozOct 24, 20171 votes

HAHAHAHA. Only if you have a lots of ap. Otherwise it just useless.

Yes, unfortunately she is AD Auto-attacking Tank, so she's not going to have a lot of AP. I wish she was AP Assasin, would make it better.

Also where the fk is her sustain on q? She has no sustain or at least in combat.

Sustained damage

CrownsyOct 24, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rGUMEmWk,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2017-10-24T20:21:54.752+0000)

Yes, unfortunately she is AD Auto-attacking Tank, so she's not going to have a lot of AP. I wish she was AP Assasin, would make it better.

Sustained damage

Riot says she is an AP assassin now. That is why her ratios are now awful for tanking. so no, she isn't an "ad auto attacking tank" as currently built.

Honestly that would make her kit better, but they can't do that now without overhauling her AP scaling and they won't do that per meddler.

Daedric EtwahlOct 25, 20172 votes

Pretty sure that ad auto attacking tank line was sarcasm...

YumaS2AstralOct 24, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yea because we all know that assassin's job is to kill tanks. Also where the fk is her sustain on q? She has no sustain or at least in combat.

If for some reason Evelynn is forced to focus the tank, she can do real damage to them, that they can't just ignore. Other assassins can barely do that. Also, nowadays it is so hard to actually go to the ADC and kill them, that you might as well just focus the closest target to you (which happens to be the frontline tanks most of time).

Kai GuyOct 24, 20172 votes

Eve does not have to risk PVP the entire game as she is a jungler, her kit gives her advantages early game vs camps but shes reliant on teammates and items for kills. Which would suck in a lane assassin, but as she is not tied into a lane shes able to constantly look for opportunity's to make plays across the map, like junglers do. I feel players focus on the fact shes an assassin first and forget about the impact jungling has. "she needs items/shes to weak to kill champions alone"

Shes able to kill camps to get items quite easily. She ganks which means she should never be trying to kill some one alone whos at full health until she's got the items required to make the attempt. Early and mid game she's supposed to be surprising folks with camo and generating kills for her team with her team. Her W cc and her E allow her to threaten lanes that have champions who are not glass cannons.

RebonackOct 24, 20179 votes

Complaints about Eve seem to be divided into two main categories.

People who think she's undertuned.
People who don't like the kit choices Riot made.

NoblewindOct 24, 20177 votes

For this point, I'm leaving out whether she's strong or weak because honestly I'm not sure yet.

But this is just yet another case of people thinking in the following way, happens every single rework, this is nothing new:

Champ gets updated
Mains of champ try to play new, updated champ in the same way they were played before
Seemingly dumbfounded that the results are different, must then find a medium to let out the frustration

Same thing happened during the larger assassin rework, notably for Akali and Fizz mains from what I remember.

Alex h8721Oct 24, 20173 votes

Youre right, i remember the boards overflowing with a lot of fizz players raging about the rework.

ModAcademy KaynOct 24, 20173 votes

Absolutely agree.

ShaydroxOct 25, 20172 votes

Agreed, as I said before some Talon mains also had this issue seeing as his approach to fights changed soooooo much. Now that people have adapted to flank with his E, they have found that he's really good, just different.

JoeMGOct 24, 20177 votes

I think I can describe one of her big issues with one recent gameplay experience:

I was playing Fiddlesticks against an Eve (jungling). Anytime she marked me with her W, I simply waited until she was close enough to be revealed while attempting to proc it, hit my fear on her, on walked away. Her mark faded and she had to retreat.

So basically, too much of her kit's power relies on her gimmicky W.

MangelinaJolieOct 24, 20172 votes

One bad Eve who doesn’t know what to do with her does not speak for her.

Besides that, Fiddle (as bad as he is currently) is not a good matchup for her. His silence dumpsters her kit, hard, and he sustains her early damage.

If she was marking you she was playing the match wrong. She should have been focused on getting fed on someone else.

CrownsyOct 24, 20172 votes

{quoted}

One bad Eve who doesn’t know what to do with her does not speak for her.

Besides that, Fiddle (as bad as he is currently) is not a good matchup for her. His silence dumpsters her kit, hard, and he sustains her early damage.

If she was marking you she was playing the match wrong. She should have been focused on getting fed on someone else.

honest question, what IS a good matchup for her in the Jg right now. Not being a dick, but half her problem is that while she has good clears, her Q refund not procing on champions means most AD junglers can just walk into her jungle and beat her to death pre 6, and there isn't much she can do about it if her inital Q rotation isn't enough to drive them off.

MangelinaJolieOct 25, 20172 votes

{quoted}

honest question, what IS a good matchup for her in the Jg right now. Not being a dick, but half her problem is that while she has good clears, her Q refund not procing on champions means most AD junglers can just walk into her jungle and beat her to death pre 6, and there isn't much she can do about it if her inital Q rotation isn't enough to drive them off.

I can't disagree with you there. They really did go out of their way to make her early game as awful as possible. I don't generally agree with buffing her ranges or any of that, but I won't deny she needs help early.

That said, I've done pretty well against Kha, surprisingly. But that also might not have been great Kha players.

THE RlVER KlNGOct 25, 20177 votes

People think she should be able to gapclose from beyond her stealth detection while also having an instant charm from said stealth and also able to ult everytime she fights oh and ALSO the stealth from level one that made her need a VGU in the first place

hyperbole of course but the eve circlejerk is insufferable. sure she might need some tweaks to her W and E but she can't have everything

NyarlathοtepOct 25, 20172 votes

So tell me dear RLVER KILNG how the fk should an evelynn kill a lone adc ( more or less same exp and gold ). She has to use her w right? But it will tell her position. She has also to pop that w. But she cant e because she will be revealed. So she has to use q right? But the range is barely bigger than her detection range so even the slightest movement can reveal her and trust me this shit is very common. Also she generally has lower burst than before so yeah there is that.

KloqdqOct 25, 20171 votes

She has to use her w right? But it will tell her position. She has also to pop that w.

Cast it while they are near them if they are alone??? Why would you cast it massively out of range when you are invisible. Just cast it near them and be close enough to jump them when the Charm just ready to be popped.

NyarlathοtepOct 25, 2017

Here we go again, if i try to do what you just said, chances are that they will get in my detection range by accident. And i cant keep them away because i have to proc the charm with my q. And even then i cant just jump them. Eve has no dash.

KloqdqOct 26, 20171 votes

I played her and I really don't see the issue here.

NyarlathοtepOct 26, 2017

There is a high chance that you were against bad players. Its not uncommon, but its not good gameplay design to rely on the mistakes your opponents make.

KloqdqOct 27, 20171 votes

It's not even mistakes. It's just using the kit to it's fullest. It is difficult but not as terrible as people are saying.

NyarlathοtepOct 27, 2017

Yes it is. Imagine trying to charm an ashe, only to be always revealed because w betrays your position and thus ashe uses her w to kick you out of your passive run or fight back. And its not ashe exclusive. Many champs can do the above. Thats just sad. Its 10 times better to just try to engage them without your w.

KloqdqOct 27, 20171 votes

You are more than capable of sticking around them. They can't see you afterall. You can flank them. Catch them out on their own. You are invisible. They can't see you unless you are quite close to them. Using this to your advantage is key.

I believe she is very strong and I do not want to have a case of Zac or Ivern where we just jump straight to buffing her, overbuff her and make her utterly broken even though she is already strong. We don't need this and even the current PBE buffs will likely push her over the edge.

NyarlathοtepOct 27, 2017

No you arent because for the last fking time the q range is more or less the reveal range. You can be detected quite easily even by accident. And dont get me started on stray aoe dmg spell that can reveal you.

And the buffs on pbe are very minimal. I dont know about the number changes on her e, but her ulti is a decent one, though riot wants us to execute epic monsters with our ulti for some reason.

KloqdqOct 27, 20171 votes

So what you want a full revert than? Because frankly old Evelynn needed to be burned in a fire for how terrible of a champion she was for game health. New Evelynn is a fantastic champion and is not going anywhere. She does need some touch ups. A lot of new champions do. Look at Ornn. Riot is more careful on newer champion releases because they don't want a champion to come out and break the game like Camille basically did.

The stealth activating in 1.5 seconds is going to be fucking MASSIVE. I think she will actually be broken at that point because she can re-enter fights waaay more often now. The E change gives her better access to items and gunblade is going to be really fucking good on her now. The ultimate change is also a fantastic change.

No matter how I look at it, Evelynn was already strong but these changes coming are only going to make her stronger.

NyarlathοtepOct 27, 2017

So what you want a full revert than? Because frankly old Evelynn needed to be burned in a fire for how terrible of a champion she was for game health

Agree wholefully. I never said bring back old eve.

New Evelynn is a fantastic champion and is not going anywhere. She does need some touch ups

Agree minus the part where you say some. She needs many.

A lot of new champions do. Look at Ornn. Riot is more careful on newer champion releases because they don't want a champion to come out and break the game like Camille basically did.

Galio says hi!

The stealth activating in 1.5 seconds is going to be fucking MASSIVE. I think she will actually be broken at that point because she can re-enter fights waaay more often now

Oh yeah i forgot about that. Yeah its pretty good, but its only normal. I mean for god's sake compared to other camos she is the only one to be knocked out of camo from any source of dmg.

The E change gives her better access to items and gunblade is going to be really fucking good on her now. The ultimate change is also a fantastic change.

Here's the problem with gunblade. Its not an item for assassins. Its for sustained dmg dealers, that deal ad and ap dmg. I mean yeah she can make use of it, but she doesnt want to draw out trades she lacks sustained dmg. After her q goes on cd she is going to wait for a while for it to come back. In the meantime she will have to aa. And yeah i agree on ulti changes.

No matter how I look at it, Evelynn was already strong but these changes coming are only going to make her stronger.

Maybe, but not as an assassin. And i want eve to be an assassin. They dont promote her assassin like pattern, minus the changes on her ulti. Her q barely reminds assassins, her w takes a lot of time to prepare and its stronger against heavy mr targets, her e deals and will always deal more dmg to tanks than squishy targets. Only her ulti is assassin like.

KloqdqOct 27, 20171 votes

Galio says hi!

One balance fuck up does not equal a champion being released weak. You do realize there is many reasons why Evelynn is also not doing as well as she likely should right? Like this being a tank/enchanter meta that shits on assassins. Or that she was tuned to Runes Reforged and tested on there.

Here's the problem with gunblade. Its not an item for assassins. Its for sustained dmg dealers, that deal ad and ap dmg. I mean yeah she can make use of it, but she doesnt want to draw out trades she lacks sustained dmg. After her q goes on cd she is going to wait for a while for it to come back. In the meantime she will have to aa. And yeah i agree on ulti changes.

Gunblade is the modern DFG. If you want burst, you build it. Evelynn wants to help burst and with Q being a DPS tool and her E now having a AD ratio, it will be good. Ahri and LeBlanc both build Gunblade to help get burst. Kat and Akali both do it as well.

Gunblade is more burst than you think.

Maybe, but not as an assassin. And i want eve to be an assassin. They dont promote her assassin like pattern, minus the changes on her ulti. Her q barely reminds assassins, her w takes a lot of time to prepare and its stronger against heavy mr targets, her e deals and will always deal more dmg to tanks than squishy targets.

Q is just like the old one and it's an iconic part of her kit. No matter what I don't this could have ever been changed and even then this change is about as good as you can make it. The W falls in line with every assassin having counterplay. LB, Talon, Rengar, Kat, Fizz, etc. They all have a visible tell or delay to their damage.

On note of the damage, I understand they wanted to give her better execute damage but I do agree it works better towards a tank in ways. E especially since it wants to hurt higher hp targets rather than the lower ones. W is basically the best you can do considering there isn't a AP lethality. You could have just flat pen but that is just bring back the bad memories of flat armor pen.

Really, it's the best they can do with the limits of AP as a stat when compared to AD.

McsquzzyOct 24, 20175 votes

either decrease her camo range or make whiplash have additional range when empowered. Also it is very likely that her kit was made with the new runes in mind (I would hope)

Roar of LegendOct 28, 20171 votes

I don't know... They change the whole runes/masteries every season at this point (just like the jungle and Ryze). Making a design base on something that everybody know will get rework/delete later on will just make her another Sejuani case.

bànOct 24, 20173 votes

Because they can't 100-0 someone out of stealth anymore. "wahh Rito, I actually have to think and use my brain now to pull off a successful gank? This Eve rework sucks!"

KyrsakuOct 24, 20177 votes

nothing to do with that, the problem is you can't do damage out of stealth period because you get seen and then 100-0 before you even get close to them. Honestly I would go as far as to say she is the only melee without a way to get to the enemy unless they are blind or literally brand new to the game.

bànOct 24, 20171 votes

then i guess youre just bad

KyrsakuOct 24, 20173 votes

Please give me one example of a melee with a worse gap closer

TwitchInMyPantsOct 24, 20173 votes

Most of the complaints I've seen are from old Eve mains and losing pre6 stealth and the ability to rush in makes her pre6 ganking awful, which is pretty much the opposite of how she was before.

CrownsyOct 24, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Most of the complaints I've seen are from old Eve mains and losing pre6 stealth and the ability to rush in makes her pre6 ganking awful, which is pretty much the opposite of how she was before.

my complaints are she doesn't do much mid or late game either. Allure is cool, but way out of place in her kit as a stealth assassin. It just feels like Im going "HI!!! I have a flank and am coming to kill you in the next 2 seconds or so....don't look!"

CrownsyOct 24, 20173 votes

{quoted}

She offers a real stalker experience if played right. She can hangout in the enemy jg undetected and ambush them. After taking some damage, she just has to retreat for a bit healing up once her passive kicks in. Once she is healed, she is at it again, looking for her next victim.

Enemies will go crazy looking for her. Forming a man hunt while feeling unsafe because they know she is around in the shadows just waiting for them to split up.

Yea she doesn't have burst at first. Thats fine because her passive gives her insane heal sustain. Its a fair trade off. Once you get and , her burst is real.

The other notable thing is she can do some damage to tanks with her W MR pen. Her W plus the new void staff will be able to do 75% magic pen while dealing massive max health damage. After that she still has some sustain damage from her Q.

Other assassin are not good vs tanks and don't have sustain heal.

I don't get why everyone is complaining about EVE.

Well, I think people are going over board, but her kit dopes have several major flaws. primarily, these are recoverable if you get really, really good with her but given that it's 1) a Tank Jg meta and 2) there are Jg champs (hi blue kayn) that do much of what she does, but better she's a hard pick to justify atm.

1st, and formost, they went WAY overboard with here Q being nerfed as a damage tool outside of the Jng. She is an AP assassin who, if you blow your load in a fight, has around 6 seconds of "I guess I'll just stand here and auto attack....if i can get to you.

yes, there are other Jng champs with this rotation downtime, but they are mostly either 1) AD champs, so they don't care as much or 2) tanky, so they can stick to there target until there cooldowns start to cycle without you know, being popped like a squishy.

2nd, Allure, while cool, seems VERY out of place in a stealth assassins kit.

If your ganking with it pre 6, your generally ok because your likely in lane because the enemy laner made a mistake and pushed up to far, got low health, ect and the slow is enough.

Once your 6 though....it is REAL REAL annoying as a champ who strikes from the shadows to see someone you think you can flank from stealth...and have to give them a heads up your coming and your general direction. Also, unless the enemy laner is a turnip, they will likely attempt to make it as difficult as possible to land a Q on them, and lashers poor non-empowered range (225, for real Riot?) often makes even a full 2.5 second charged allure tough to pop.

Last, here Ult, while really cool is on a clown shoes ridiculous cooldown based on what it does right now. 180 seconds for a very short range AOE and a flash back seems very punishing, particularly when you consider other movement + damage ults cool downs are far shorter. I also feel like either the range needs to go up on the forward arc, or the damage needs to go up on it for late game.

Mid game, it's fine since you can pick/Tower dive with it. End game it's generally not going to kill enough people to justify her running in with it, and again W becomes a problem when you have to basically announce "We are engaging on you/ I have a flank from over here!" as the invisible assassin.

Tl:dr - They need to fix Q, so she has something to do damage other than auto attacks for the 6 seconds when every skill she has is down. Also, I feel Allure is very out of place in her kit.

honestly, if they did this rework and left her the old W movement speed steroid reset on kills, she'd be in a much better place.

BârdOct 25, 20173 votes

She can hang out in the enemy jungle post 6. Before then, she has no tools to do anything other than pray the enemy doesn't invade her. Because of that, she's on the back foot from the moment she comes online, because the enemy jungler almost certainly did more on the map than she did in the time it took her to hit 6.

Even then, hanging out is all she does. She doesn't have a gap closer until protobelt, and she does no damage until she gets a lich bane and runic echoes unless her target is already nearly dead.

Her passive lets her heal up... to about half health. That just means she can farm without dying to creeps. It does not mean she is in any shape to pick a fight.

Even when she does get the jump on a lone target, she has to wait 2.5 seconds, giving them all the time in the world to collapse.

CrozzOct 25, 20173 votes

"Other assassin are not good vs tanks and don't have sustain heal."

assassins dont care about healing, they care about killing and sustain damage, eve has 0 sustain damage with Q having a 8 sec CD , you have to go max CD for sustain damage of any kind and if you do that you have no burst, , and if your all burst there still a bigger chance then with most other assassins that you dont kill the target , and getting to the target at all is a huge problem and here is what happens every time vs any team with a support/ tank that knows what they are doing

you press E adc/target gets in to middle of team you A: do nothing B: try to go in , Q skill shot gets body blocked, walk in to melee range, get CCed, die

talon? he press R, runs in, and target is dead zed? blinks in, R, a few fancy AOEs and 1 auto later, blicks out, dead kayn? hits you with long aoe (thats not blocked by a tanks fat butt) and Rs on to target, dead

eve just cant get near her target with out having to run threw everyone else, and she only does good damage to people she hits with Q

TL;DR she lacks good gap closing, Q being a skill shot sucks

101100111000Oct 25, 20173 votes

Assassins aren't supposed to be good versus tanks.

You just made her sound like an AP skirmisher.

Kai GuyOct 24, 20172 votes

Quick question, do you use smart cast?

xxxMadLionxxxOct 24, 20176 votes

yes

Kai GuyOct 24, 20176 votes

Think about how she feels to play if you did not, Then add in all the widely incorrect ideas people have on how to play her. Every time some one tells me she cant gap close I just get irritated, you can cut folks off so they have to move into your range for a shot at safety. Or you can ulti backwards. Then some ones gonna be all like OMG THATS NOT WHAT YOU USE IT FOR... when that same persons complaining that hes struggling to grab kills because she has no mobility/gapclosers. You cast R to blink and kill some one. Your down R, you up a kill. You cast R to kill some one and get blinked back, Your R is on cd and your up 1 kill, but instead of using it to blink then snag a kill on a low target, people go ham for the "execute" Mind you her E has a %hp and her Q is strong point blank and vs charmed targets. So we see this play, sneak up to range, Flash, Ultimate out. Your now down a very long cd SS, up a kill and ulti is on cd. Just W, R, EQQQ or WRQeqq at that point and save the flash.

xxxMadLionxxxOct 24, 201717 votes

Honestly i don't really see any reason to play without smart cast. The past of the game is to fast for one to not use it.

Automated RivenOct 24, 20174 votes

There are pro players who don't use smart cast. It is a personal choice. And being honest it doesn't actually make that much of a difference if you are good at it.

GripaAviaraOct 24, 20173 votes

Playing without smart cast is stupid, should be on by default. And not a valid reason for a buff

ÈvilMortyOct 24, 20171 votes

when a champ gets a point and click charm that she can easily proc cuz running right behind/beside you stealth and people still complain

SinlaireOct 25, 20173 votes

they arent complaining she is strong. they are complaining she is weak. I played her today and her stealth feels worse than literally any other stealth i have ever played in this game. Her detection radius is the largest of any champ in stealth mode, and when you see it in game you realise her detection range is about 70% of her total vision range. enemies coming from the fog of war towards you will make it out of the fog and into your detection range in about ~1 second. Giving you exactly that much time to find a way to see, react, and move before they find you purely on accident.

I had several times today i was wandering around trying to position for my lanes and i bumped into the fed enemy jungle nocturne. 3 out of the 4 times it happened we were going in the opposite direction and before i could even see him, react, turn, and run, he had walked into vision range, seen me, and killed me. One time i was specifically watching out for him and it happened anyways. He came out of the fog of war coming directly towards me, I turned, he got in sight anyways, and i was dead.

I killed maybe 5 pink wards by the time i hit level 8 that game and ganked 2 lanes by that point because none of my lanes were prevent the enemy from warding and watching me from coming in. and it didnt help they i couldnt even wander the river in safety even trying to position between farm because noc was so fast and fucking stupidly lucky that every time i turned around he was screaming at me from the fog of war and i couldnt get away because of her mile wide detection radius.

from what i've heard plat/Diamond+ have higher win rates with her than any of the other Elo's and they still dont play her because she's just trash. No stealth pre 6, highly telegraphed AND delayed cc, extremely short range gap closer, largest stealth detection radius in the game, extremely vulnerable to counter jungling, and finally her ganks crushingly reliant on team clearing pinks and having the enemy low due to all of these factors. Which when you read sounds like an exaggeration, which is what i thought until i played it today.

She looks good and sounds good, but feels bad. Like a brand new sports car that grinds gears every time you shift. It just doesn't work.