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Junglers flame solo laners for losing lane just as much as laners bitch at junglers for not ganking

HateDaddy··62 votes·4,057 views

And guess what? It happens. We lose lane sometimes, we get outplayed with absolutely nobody to blame but ourselves. And I get it, sometimes you gotta cut dead weight and try to salvage whatever you can by ganking for winning lanes where you have a reasonable chance to get kills. But there is a certain point as a jungler where you HAVE to do something about a losing lane if you want to win the game. Period.

Before anyone wants to jump on me and accuse me of this, I'm not referring to losing lane myself and not getting help - I actually got some help and it was nice and I thanked the jungler. I stomped my lane but he was still ganking for me 20 minutes in when our bot lane was getting dove at inhib tower because the enemy Gragas camped them instead. He got mad at me because I told him he needs to stop coming top and do something about bot/mid and he goes on to flame our bot/mid lane for losing lane and it's not his fault. Well no, it's not your fault but damnit if you want to win, you HAVE to stop the enemy team from diving at our inhib turret when our tier 2 tower is still up, that simply can't happen.

This is probably where people say "but omg top laner, why don't you do something!!" I did, but I'm a nasus and I need to get SOME farm. I teleported bot once but teleport ganks are a lot harder to pull off now and they got away. It stopped a dive and nobody died but I basically blew my TP to save bot. So I can only do so much and as a solo laner, I do have to spend most of my time laning, especially as a farm dependent champion. But this mentality pisses me off because junglers can do no wrong. And the Zac was smart to come top a few times but coming 4-5 times in a row while our bot is continuously getting dove is not smart and we're just going to lose the game by getting penta killed by their jinx if Zac doesn't pressure bot at all. And explaining this to him had him furious and he just kept flaming mid/bot for losing lane.

And after the game he added my friend to tell him how much we suck and had a few more nasty things to say that I won't be repeating. But guess what the TL;DR is?

tl;dr

Junglers, you're not perfect and you're not immune from blame or responsibility. And you flame just as much as solo laners do, please everyone stop playing victim and quit being dicks and just play the game well so I don't have an aneurysm trying to climb.

61 Comments

HateDaddy21 votes

Jungle mains downvoting while afking farming

Flitchee3 votes

The only thing I can say as to why i won't go help somebody getting pubstomped, is mainly because if i go there and we can barely 2v1, if someone from the enemy team shows up, we sure as shit can't 2 v 2, result in either a 1 for 2 or just a plain old double kill. The champion I am playing also effects my choices regarding this, if i'm playing someone with a lot of cc, yeah helping the losing lane is easy, as long as they are not too behind. The other thing is, if I am playing Graves, well guess what I tell people on my team that are losing incredibly hard? If its bot lane? I tell them to go mid for the tower mid lane. Why? because it gets them out of that situation entirely, and making the enemy team dance mid, and keeping them from engaging stalls the game out allowing us to more often than not come back eventually. and if enemy bot lane doesnt go mid? free towers. the thing is though, unless you zac and the midlaner went bot, you were going to lose the fights anyways. granted the dives wouldnt be as often, but it's not a wise thing to do, running at a fed lane when you know their jungler is always close by, it results in bad fights every time. sure theres situations where hellping a lane getting stomped is the thing to do, but lots of times you can barely win a 3v2 bot lane, and if it becomes 3v3 cause of enemy jungler or mid laner, you're just making it much harder to come back.

HateDaddy2 votes

{quoted}

The only thing I can say as to why i won't go help somebody getting pubstomped, is mainly because if i go there and we can barely 2v1, if someone from the enemy team shows up, we sure as shit can't 2 v 2, result in either a 1 for 2 or just a plain old double kill. The champion I am playing also effects my choices regarding this, if i'm playing someone with a lot of cc, yeah helping the losing lane is easy, as long as they are not too behind. The other thing is, if I am playing Graves, well guess what I tell people on my team that are losing incredibly hard? If its bot lane? I tell them to go mid for the tower mid lane. Why? because it gets them out of that situation entirely, and making the enemy team dance mid, and keeping them from engaging stalls the game out allowing us to more often than not come back eventually. and if enemy bot lane doesnt go mid? free towers. the thing is though, unless you zac and the midlaner went bot, you were going to lose the fights anyways. granted the dives wouldnt be as often, but it's not a wise thing to do, running at a fed lane when you know their jungler is always close by, it results in bad fights every time. sure theres situations where hellping a lane getting stomped is the thing to do, but lots of times you can barely win a 3v2 bot lane, and if it becomes 3v3 cause of enemy jungler or mid laner, you're just making it much harder to come back.

That doesn't always work because mid lane loses too and it's easily countered by the enemy bot rotating up and pressuring mid now.

Honestly, it's all situational but when teams are diving past towers, those are bad dives and overcommits that would be punished if Zac was just in the area. And if that happens, jinx doesn't end up one shorting everybody. And bam, now I actually have a chance to make some noise.

Flitchee1 votes

I mean, again, they roam don'ty fight, just stall clearing waves, and keeping them from engaging, it's not difficult man.

Berry Blast2 votes

{quoted}

Jungle mains downvoting while afking farming

and then you realize everyone is toxic af and you just dont read chat anymore OP

Arthimetes13 votes

What I hate is when the lane is even, neither me or my enemy able to score a kill so we just farm, the enemy gets a gank and finally gets a kill so I ask my jungler for help only to get the infamous line;

"I don't help losing lanes"

Some junglers are so quick to throw that around I've even had some tell me that for being 10 cs behind.

Diananmen Square2 votes

I'm a jungle main and that statement is true at times, but definetly not in this case. I will very likely ignore a lane that is 0/5/0 at 10 minutes, but if you only died once I will actually try and camp you a bit to stop enemy snowball and stop you from tilting to oblivion. Junglers who do that take the whole "ignore losing lanes" a step too far.

Pierce The Veal5 votes

{quoted}

What I hate is when the lane is even, neither me or my enemy able to score a kill so we just farm, the enemy gets a gank and finally gets a kill so I ask my jungler for help only to get the infamous line;

"I don't help losing lanes"

Some junglers are so quick to throw that around I've even had some tell me that for being 10 cs behind.

Yeah that's oddly common.

That or the jungler who ganks when you tell them not to (because it's risky), ends up dying to the enemy laner and potentially gets me killed as well, and then rages at me when I told them that we couldn't fight it out/we were gonna ger ambushed.

And then the enemy laner proxeeds to completely dominate me.

Sunbreaker7 votes

As a Silver scrub who witnesses flaming a lot, i can say that junglers get harassed a lot more than laners, usually by multiple people

I was Lupxel5 votes

Probably they got flamed for a reason. I mean, sometimes I got junglers who AFK farm the whole lanning phase, and only come out during TeamFights phase, severely behind, while the enemy jungler made his lanners get over us

Xonra2 votes

[{quoted}](name=I was Lupxel,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rFUjbEGG,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-07-17T12:42:52.273+0000)

Probably they got flamed for a reason. I mean, sometimes I got junglers who AFK farm the whole lanning phase, and only come out during TeamFights phase, severely behind, while the enemy jungler made his lanners get over us

And everytime "not my job to win your lane" - "getting camped" - "then dont die"

I see this happening often on both teams in my low division.

HateDaddy2 votes

There's only so much you can do when you're constantly getting 3 man dove as a top laner by their top, mid and jungle. If I see it coming, I'll leave but I can only control vision so much. And what people don't understand when they flame you for not warding is that most of the time, I am warding but their jungler pinks my ward and it's too dangerous for me to just facecheck a bush by myself to clear he pink. It's one of the best ways to setup a gank, just wait for the laner to try to clear the pink and collapse on him.

Diananmen Square3 votes

And it is especially worse when your jungler doesn't take advantage of this. If there are three enemies top and they wrecked your top laner, at least get dragon or bot tower man.

Darkslayer855 votes

I play the jungler in this scenario.

Riven GANK ME SCRUB CAN'T YOU SEE I'M 0/1 Kindred Whatever. On my way. Riven YEAH GET OVER HERE YOU BOOSTED ANIMAL Kindred I carry my own games. Anyway, I'm coming in, engage onto Illaoi Illaoi FRESH MEAT YEAH!!! ALRIGHT!!! Riven (Continues farming) Kindred (frantic pings for assistance) Riven (Goes into jungle to kill Scuttle Crab)

An ally has been slain

Riven GG FF@20 GARBAGE JUNGLER!!!

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a396 votes

{quoted}

I play the jungler in this scenario.

Riven GANK ME SCRUB CAN'T YOU SEE I'M 0/1 Kindred Whatever. On my way. Riven YEAH GET OVER HERE YOU BOOSTED ANIMAL Kindred I carry my own games. Anyway, I'm coming in, engage onto Illaoi Illaoi FRESH MEAT YEAH!!! ALRIGHT!!! Riven (Continues farming) Kindred (frantic pings for assistance) Riven (Goes into jungle to kill Scuttle Crab)

An ally has been slain

Riven GG FF@20 GARBAGE JUNGLER!!!

I don't see anything relevant to the topic.

Diananmen Square1 votes

Why did he have to use Kindred as the flamed Jungler, brings me SoloQ memories :c

Kr1sys1 votes

{quoted}

I don't see anything relevant to the topic.

found the person that doesn't jungle

Athenes Lulu3 votes

Just like how support flame at their ADCs for not doing their best, and how ADC flame at their supports for the same reasons.

Every story has 2 sides, really, but everyone need to realize that it's a team game, so they are all at fault to some extent if losing.

PiVoRx3 votes

Its not hard to NOT lose a lane, everytime someone is losing his lane, its cause he tried to win it

Cookimonster3163 votes

As a jungler that barely flames anybody but gets flamed a lot for my own mistakes (whether that be failing a gank, having a bad ult or missing smite), well I guess I am either blaming my laners as much as they are blaming me or nobody is blaming anyone because

you flame just as much as solo laners do

MonkeyMadness1 votes

TFW you and the enemy jungler end up in a smite war and it's down to a 50/50 chance, but your team thinks you have the ability to control who smites first/correctly. God, I wish the idiots that flame junglers actually jungled once or twice before spewing their vitriol.

Cookimonster3161 votes

No matter how that ends, a jungler is getting flamed

MonkeyMadness1 votes

yep. either you just flashed over the wall and are "intentionally feeding" or you are a "boosted trash jungler that can't even time smite and/or makes shitty baron calls". Honestly, this singular case alone pretty much makes OP's argument invalid.

HateDaddy2 votes

In other words: "junglers are immune from any blame"

MonkeyMadness1 votes

not sure what you are insinuating here...

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

when their jungler is a higher level and you never had a chance....

MonkeyMadness1 votes

yep. team never manages to grasp that concept either.

HazyCloud73 votes

As a mid main my experience is that junglers get flamed far more often than solo laners get flamed for playing poorly. Some people expect you to be everywhere and help everybody, and the reality is that a jungler can only do so much.

Personally I have no issue if I receive no jungle help, and if I lose lane then I accept that it was my fault, just as when I ping the enemy LeBlanc mia and bot lane ignores it and dies as a result it's their fault. I have issue if they are afk farming and not helping somewhere on the map. Certain champions have to rush to level 6 and that's perfectly understandable. The Yi afk farming raptors while the the enemy laner is constantly overextended and even at the moment? Not so much.

Nyhver2 votes

fisherman baitdaddy

I Q2 votes

Okay so I am a mid main who used to main jungle and I know both sides of the story.

I have never flamed people for losing lane as a jungler unless you are doing worse then 0/5. Once you have died 3 times just stop, sit under turret and farm.

As a laner you can only flame the jungler unless the jungler literally does nothing/dives your laner level 3 and feeds your laner even though you pinged for them to stop.

You shouldn't be flaming on either side though since in games you need to expect trash playz.

100T iLL2 votes

I feel like HateDaddy threads are beautifully planned speeches for the people. +1

Anags2 votes

Basically neither the laner or jungler should be bitching at the other for any reason.

You can ask for a gank but don't demand it. And if someone loses a lane or a jungle fails a gank just move on and play smart. I've never seen bitching at a lane or jungle work.

Just ignore/mute any player who acts like that. That is league 101.

xXMrPeanutXx1 votes

Junglers, you're not perfect and you're not immune from blame or responsibility. And you flame just as much as solo laners do, please everyone stop playing victim and quit being dicks and just play the game well so I don't have an aneurysm trying to climb.

As the younger generations of kids replace the grandfather'd players who left from Dynamic Q change, you will only see more of this attitude. I suggest a game with a substantially better community. Or else you will indeed die of blood clots (Overwatch)

Nuparu1 votes

Quitting the game is not the solution to the problem, lol.

That's like saying committing suicide is the answer to America having worse politics than before, lol...

xXMrPeanutXx1 votes

That is the dumbest most ridiculous comparison i've ever heard. You're comparing real life implications and ones life to playing a video game, which is something most people do for the enjoyment.

If they do not enjoy the video game anymore, yes play another video game.

Tobias Brackner1 votes

DON'T FLAME PEOPLE

DON'T WHINE ABOUT FLAMING PEOPLE OR PEOPLE BEING FLAMED

MUTE THEM

REPORT THEM

THEY WILL BE PUNISHED AND STOP FLAMING

GG

it be lìke that1 votes

Not even close to true, but not to mention it IS the laners fault if they lose lane? How is it not? Does that mean jungle shouldnt help them? only if its top and they arent a carry. Then they just need to chill and not feed.

When all your lanes are losing, the WORST role to be is jungler, because you have 3-4 people bitching at you that you arent in their lane enough.

I don't flame people for losing lane, but I will hit you with a "So he killed you 3 times under HIS tower, what did we learn?"

Dont expect your jungler to win your lane for you, but if you can't win it instead of saying "LIKE OMG YOU ARE SUCH A SHIT JUNGLER YOU HAVENT EVEN COME TOP ONCE" (when you know damn well he has been up there plenty) just ask for some help politely, i will GLADLY come gank for you then.

Dunkrius2g1 votes

As a top laner, i never flame my jungler. If i do jungle and i get flamed, they r just gettin muted. Simple as that and hope they get reported. If top sucked, o well nothing you can do about it. If jg is doing nothing, then he should be farming up.

I just don't understand, flaming will simply ruin the "spirit" of the game. Your game might be 5-7 but your whole team's moral at that point is of 5-32178 game.

ToxycBanana1 votes

One game I had a darius top against a renekton and I was darius' jungler, playing nautilus

He died once during his level 3 all in and blew his flash, renekton just destroyed him but both backed and teleported so I told him to wait for a few minutes while I help bot and mid because the only outside pressure that would come in would be their jungler now

I get a kill for my mid on their fizz and proceed to go bot when darius dies again in another all in attempt In my mind I'm thinking 'ok this'll be fine just go bot then top then it'll be ok' I gank bot, we get a double kill and I back. On my way to top, darius dies AGAIN trying to fight an at present 2/0 renekton with half of hydra finished while he only has boots, doran's shield and a heckload of pots. No farm to speak of because he wasted his time fighting renekton and losing. I tell him I'm going to gank mid again because he's dead and coming top will just be wasting time he didn't like that Holy shit he didn't like that. Screaming at me to hold his lane, I outright refuse because their fizz is pushed to our mid turret and is easy gold, but darius has now cracked and there's no stopping it. renekton was freezing. I don't have to hold a frozen lane. I tell him to sit back and soak xp, I gank mid and kill fizz yet again, and I hear that infamous "an ally has been slain" for a fourth time.

Welp congratulations on reading this far. I'll let you in on a little secret; all of us were on discord together

Sorry all top laners, but if you're going 0/4 against renekton I'm not coming up there to help you. Not even if you're one of my best friends. That is irredeemable. He's now strong enough to kill both of us and at 5 minutes if you're doing that poorly take my krugs or something don't just let renekton farm kills on you.

tl;dr If you're going 0/4 at 5 minutes, I'm not coming up there to save you. Even if we ARE on a call with each other. It's just a free double kill for their laner. Psychologists, how do I deal with a delusional friend who thinks he can duel renekton 0/4?

BakedLotion1 votes

Wat. I always gank winning lanes and don't bother with losing ones. It's much easier to snowball. And even then, a laner losing lane is completely on them because, well, they're against an opponent and they lost.

Spartan117101 votes

I mean if i camp ur lane and ur still useless i will fucking hate u.

DevlinCrow1 votes

I'm a Fill main but mostly jungle. I understand lanes lose, you can't expect every team mate of every game to have a 100% lane win. I never flame, or even get annoyed with a losing lane as long as the laner is trying their best.

Junglers already get tons of hate (it actually puts me off the role, despite it being my best) but we're not all bad!

Kinetika1 votes

I'm sure that happens once in awhile, but I never see it because I'm basically always jungling.

The bottom line is this though - no other role in the entire game gets bitched at more than the jungler. There are 3 lanes that could start losing their lane, and typically the laner will look to blame someone. Of course, that's usually the jungler (although ADCs LOVE to blame their supports and vice versa). It's complicated when there are two laners that are getting spanked, because then the jungler gets shit on by two people, and they'll just start group-flaming.

It's a difficult job to do, especially if you get more than one laner that is outmatched in a game. I'm not sure that I've played a game where my team hasn't absolutely DOMINATED where someone doesn't bitch about something, no matter how minor. IMO, it gets better when you get into higher MMR games because those players tend to be more self-sufficient and expect less help in laning phase from the jungler.

Anyhow, when I do get my off-role, I don't bitch at the jungler, and my expectation is that it's entirely up to me to win my lane, with or without help from the jungler. I find that this attitude keeps me focused on improving my off-role (i'm not that good outside of jungling), and forces me to make better trades at the very least. I also tend to buy pink wards and items that help me survive ganks/laning phase (like zhonya's or sterak's gage etc).

Slamurai Jack1 votes

I don't mind trying to help losing lanes, but I swear to god, you'd better not waste my time when I come up there to help you. Time is money as a jungler and if you waste mine, you're really hurting our team, especially if I went out of my way to try and help you.

ForeverLaxx1 votes

I wouldn't do this, and I was a Jungle Main. Then again, I didn't gank for the lane either when they refused to maintain proper creep positioning and expected me to dive the tower for every gank they demanded.

I was too busy focusing on getting my mid and bottom lanes fed to carry that top lane to bother calling them out on the BS.

Ikruti1 votes

I've often seen the phrase "It's not my responsibility to win your lane for you" thrown about by junglers. Yet when my jungler is getting destroyed in the jungle, it's everyone's fault that they didn't help them in the jungle.

It's tempting to throw the reverse statement at them, "If it's not the junglers responsibility to help laners win their lane, then it's not the laners responsibility to help junglers win their jungle." But ultimately that is destructive thinking and leads to everyone being upset and the enemy team being fed.

It would be better if everyone understood this is a team game, it is everyone's responsibility to help out their teammates to the best of their abilities. And really when you look at it, teams that adhere to this philosophy always do better than teams that don't.

deadzombie9181 votes

While I very much agree with your reasoning (seriously, excellent job on writing this, kudos to you) I can think of at least 3 reasons why your Jungler (Zac I presume) would not go to botlane

  1. Zac wanted free kills
  2. Zac needed to get kills to help bot
  3. Zac was underfed, and him going bot would result in even more feeding

Also, as you were Nasus, it's perfectly understandable why you can't assist bot (gotta get that farm). My final guess is this: Zac had no synchronicity with botlane to score successful ganks. However, Zac still could have used his E to pressure botlane, thus preventing them from pushing that far. Also, one last thing: Where was your midlane? As a Jungle main myself, I've learned that even if you can't score kills, getting that lane to use their flash or even forcing them under tower is still a massive help to your team.

Tl;dr: Your Zac's mindset is not a Jungler's mindset, and he is not good in that role.

Extrasolar1 votes

I'm in the middle about this. I remember I heard someone say that jungling is the most difficult role in the game, since it's all about time management and decision making.

While I know that junglers do need to farm their jungle, and thus can't be everywhere all the time, and it definitely isn't your jungler's job to win your lane for you, a lot of the time I see that junglers don't take action when doing so would help the team.

I've been in plenty of lanes when the enemy laners (I main support/ADC) are permanently pushed to our tower, to the point where can't even get to the first bush in the lane. The jungler is busily farming. I ask for some jungle pressure just to get them to back off a bit; rarely do I get any help at all. I'm not expecting the jungler to camp; just some jungle pressure/visibility is often enough to deter the enemy, and if we get summoner spell pops and kills, then even better. Just SOME help would be nice.

JUlCY AF1 votes

Claims he wants to climb yet plays Nasus hehe xd. Imma give u a tip, stop playing nasus and play a useful champ. Nasus DOES NOT scale into the late game, he is the best MID game bruiser. So instead of farming for 30 minutes be useful. But uh I tried to tp gank for bot Nasus is just so useless his tp pressure is shyt. Wow dang. Its almost as if playing Nasus should be a reportable offense hehe xd.

My Names Gumbas1 votes

I loose a lane as lee sin against a teemo for once and i were like 1-9, anyways, our jungler (rengar) didnt gank for once, legit never came close to top side, he had to keep 'camping' midlane (he and our midlane got zero kills from his failed camp, and actually fed some kills) and then he dared to flame me for being bad, lol, i did nothing wrong, he spams 'PLAY SAFE BRONZE NOOB' and when im trying to tell him THAT YOU CANT PLAY SAFE AGAINST A TEEMO he just keep telling me about how he won a teemo once like i give a fuck, when i said 'Its your fault too, you didnt gank' a witch hunt started and he flamed more than a brand.

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