https://i.gyazo.com/1ccce0b88647c9901e22f09971e0c228.png
kog jinx kalista cait varus jhin ezreal ashe lucian are picked/banned in lck
not only this but kennen is always picked top, and all those picks minus jhin rushes blade of the ruined king
so if they're banned over rengar, doesn't it mean that blade of the ruined king overtuned them?
Sona Ping25 votes"Is it safe to say that BORK is overtuned?"
Yeah, one would probably be safe to say that.
MetalGearTeemu2 votesNot at all, this is the ideal state of the game. Maybe ADC mains will finally be happy. Oh wait who am I kidding, they can't 1v1 tanks at lvl 1 yet. Pls fix ADC not important enough
HeresyHorus1 votesthey can't 1v1 tanks at lvl 1 yet
what ?
adcs are the only class that can 1v1 almost anything early ( especially melee champs with no ranged poke or multiple dashes like 
) thanks too their autoes + warlord bloodlust and fervor of battle.
after its last buff, u would be surprised how good fervor of battle can be with a ranged champ in a solo lane the whole laning phase.
Critmaster Garen20 votesshould have seen the downvotes back when i spoke out against buffing bork.
its not supposed to be a generalist item that you can just buy every game on certain champions. its job is similar to 
(only that thornmail is trash even at its one job right now)
its supposed to be there as a nieche item to allow people to deal with over specialized teamcomps. in borks case teams of 3 or 4 heavy health stacking champions. if bork can be bought against teams who dont even stack large amounts of health, its absolutely bonkers. like the last time it was this strong.
i dont understand why they ever felt the need to make it a strong generalist item.
Best princess EU3 votesbasically how i feel right now, it's like last whisper being effective against 30 armor
and as a mage main, i don't get why void staff is effective against everyone
NineTailedMystic1 votesBecause of a lack of options for MPen. The only thing most Mages can pick up is Sorc Shoes outside of Void Staff. I guess if you wanted you could sit on Guise.
HeresyHorus2 votesbecause they are completely restricted by their CDs, its the same reason why mages even when they get full MRpen still get countered by tanks.
unlike AD assassins who can counter tanks when they go full ARpen because they can auto.
MissingKayo4 votesYou realize full flat armorpen doesn't do squat shit to tanks? They'd need both Cleaver and Last Whisper to do anything meaningful. And even then, tanks still have fucknuggies of CC and health to shit on the assassin with.
HeresyHorus2 votesYou realize full flat armorpen
since when full armpen = flat armpen only ?
i may have exaggerated a little bit when i said "counter" but that wasn't the point of my reply to Sanji fanboy.
when getting caught by a 
or 
after using my utility, i would rather prefer being a 
or 
with 
/ 
( or u can go 
and sell for 
like i do ) instead of being a 
with 
( assuming i dont have over 9000 ap ) for obvious reasons, and thats why riot didnt nerf total pen.
i hope that made my point clear and sorry for that little exaggeration Mr. Accuracy Nazi but please, stop nitpicking.
FioraWillCarry1 votesfucknuggies
What in the fuck is dat wurd lmao
YOUGOTKILLEDBRO1 votesI am quite suprised it didn't get reworked with the other items, it is pretty good on Zac though. But bork is literally adc meta right now.
HeresyHorus5 votesi dont understand why they ever felt the need to make it a strong generalist item.
ADC bias my friend.
have u seen buffs ?
combo on ADCs will be worse now.
and top lane ADCs will be even more toxic than they are now ( mid ADCs too as they have better early game than mages thanks to Autoes ).
with 
/ sure will be fun to watch.
Need Gold 4 Tent1 votesalready happening. that cigar-less thing is a fucking tank that nukes people
EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votesI like the death's dance buff since it gives you a nice option if you're vs a ton of burst.
also because I play illaoi.
but the general idea of nerfing botrk some while buffing other lifesteal items makes sense to me
MunchCrunchLunch1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rAnaiiff,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-04-17T10:14:52.685+0000)
should have seen the downvotes back when i spoke out against buffing bork.
its not supposed to be a generalist item that you can just buy every game on certain champions. its job is similar to
its supposed to be there as a nieche item to allow people to deal with over specialized teamcomps. in borks case teams of 3 or 4 heavy health stacking champions. if bork can be bought against teams who dont even stack large amounts of health, its absolutely bonkers. like the last time it was this strong.
i dont understand why they ever felt the need to make it a strong generalist item.
it should have been at least a cheap item like it used to be. they increased its price to a late game good solid item and they nerfed the stats. fine. but don't make it a 3k+ gold item. 2800.
EROTIC RAID BOSS1 voteswell adcs felt like hot garbage before the botrk buffs, because they had no early game options.
Critmaster Garen3 votes[{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rAnaiiff,comment-id=00010004,timestamp=2017-04-18T00:59:37.611+0000)
well adcs felt like hot garbage before the botrk buffs, because they had no early game options.
theyre not supposed to have early game options, because theyre lategame champions.
why are hyperscaling carries getting item options that make them strong early and midgame?
we might aswell buff nasus into a lane bully then, while he gets to keep his stack mechanic.
adc might take very long to ramp up, but when they power spike they already become absolutely stupid. giving them better items not only reduces the time for them to ramp up, but buffs their already ridiculous lategame even further.
EROTIC RAID BOSS1 voteswe're talking about an entire class not one champ.
having no remotely early game options for any marksman isn't any good.
Hardstuck G411 votesRuler is widely regarded as having a weak champion pool, so they tried to limit that by taking him off all of his comfort picks. Don't take anything out of context like this. It's ridiculous.
Sohleks8 votesBans in competitive play don't work quite like that.
But you're right it's true Ruined King is busted and must build first on every single auto attacker not named Jhin [whose using spells half the time]. It's first item on every other ADC and heck I've even seen a Graves build it 4th item. And he can't even continuously fire to maximize its on hit effect.
It's Riot's way of injecting the item right into the meta and relieving ADCs from their 2k17 meme status for a while.
But yeah pro play bans isn't just let's blanket ban all the OPs. It's targeted. Blue side has first pick and goes and bans 4 adcs and takes their choice going mwuhaha you must settle with 6th rank adc. Because ADC has a smaller list of relevant champs at any time compared to other roles. And even then playing short ranged Lucian into Ashe is not the funnest.
Valid strat regardless of the state of ADCs. But more prominent when they are stronger ofc.
charge attack4 votesBork is overturned but you obviously don't understand how bans in competitive works rn. Like a few patches ago there were a few "OPs" that were picked/banned (Rengar, Lb, Camille, Varus - on red side, and possibly Maokai and Shen), all of which have been nerfed since.
Now it's based a lot on drafting - like if you want to first pick your ADC, you might ban out other ADCs (to pinch the champ pool) - which look, first pick Ashe for KT. Then they didn't pick ADC in first rotation of picks (picked support, JG , mid) - so they COULD attack top lane pool, BUT rumble and Camille are already banned and Kennen will crush any tank - so PINCH ADC pool even more - forcing Lucian against an ASHE giving Deft lane priority and stopping CoreJJ from roaming because of All In potential. Also huge dive potential because Karmas peel actually isn't that great and Lucian has no CC. Easy TP in from Kennen and just obliterate them under tower with Arrow + Wild growth + Ekko resetting tower aggro with ult.
You should never look at competitive pick and bans that flatly - it's actually SUPER interesting if you look at how they work.
NodirjonSattarov3 votesfuck off kog. kog'maw has always built BoRK for its onhit effects.
better edit that shit out fam
Best princess EU2 votesidc about what kog used to build
i'm just listing the adcs that are pick or ban
no to toxic2 votesPretending Bork isn`t just a shit item on Kog now.
Enlegacy3 votesIn that game, you see KT rolster take advantage of what they saw as a weak champion pool for Ruler, SSG's adc. Stop taking things out of context.
Ïnsidious2 votes[{quoted}](name=Sanji fanboy,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rAnaiiff,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-04-17T09:19:59.880+0000)
https://i.gyazo.com/1ccce0b88647c9901e22f09971e0c228.png
kog jinx kalista cait varus jhin ezreal ashe lucian are picked/banned in lck
not only this but kennen is always picked top, and all those picks minus jhin rushes blade of the ruined king
so if they're banned over rengar, doesn't it mean that blade of the ruined king overtuned them?
once again the boards aren't doing research. The reason for the bans in the screenshot are thus: Samsung failed to pick an adc in the first rotation, but they picked karma as a support. This allowed kt to target ban the botlane and pinch the ADC in a position where he didnt want to be in, and taking out champions that synergyse well with karma, so they banned out caitlyn and jhin, both laners who have an extremely oppressive early game with karma and both champs that are a headache when fed. This forced Samsung to pick lucian as their only hope of winning lane.
every pick you listed has been picked in NA as well, god forbid adc's have access to a little bit of sustain in skirmishes and don't need to wait for 4 items before they start dealing decent damage to enemies building health
MetalGearTeemu3 votesits almost like ADC is so overtuned now that you have to pick one of the boosted ones in your first rotation or you risk losing the game at the draft.
Thanks for pointing that out
KoggyStyle2 votesyup they broke it, jax kayle gnar irelia love it too.
javanullpointer1 votesIt was about time! not that long time ago adc's were the trash of the game even a bard could 1v1 them. Now some adc's are staring finally to shine thanks to this item. They should keep doing that
charge attack1 votesTBH bard has pretty high base damage in form of burst l. If an ADC Is already half health he could probably 1v1 them (early/early mid). However after his keeps are gone and his Q is on CD hell die to the ADC
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes
an ugly splitt monster
Dream High1 votesIt turned Lucian from one of the worst adc's to 50% play rate and 50%+ wr. Combined with his own buffs but he abuses it the most. Then you've got every other adc rushing it.
Weasel Kensei1 votesActually it wasnt just Bork, but also Black Cleaver changes that helped him.
As you mentioned he was buffed at one point (to make him less of a troll pick), and those buffs combined with those two item changes came together to make him what he is now.
RottedApples1 votesi've seen graves pick up botrks.
Jeanne fan club1 votesI think this is just the adc meta cycle. It goes something like, bortk, crit, leathality, back to bork and so on. If any of these become slightly better than the other then the whole adc tier system is flipped on its head and champions who best abuse the meta items are the ones on top.
I don't think there is a way to balance it to be perfectly honest. There will always be a really bad choice and a really good choice for adc, and no amount of balancing will find a happy medium
EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votesits a little OP yeah. but I hope they don't totally gut it, because it actually makes for a pretty fun adc meta
l Dárius l1 votesWhat adcs abusing an item balanced on melee? Who knew.
JackMcSnipeyz1 votesBotrK is a marksmen made item, riot stated that in the past that it's mainly meant for marksmen. Sorry to burs your bubble.
l Dárius l1 votesmarksmen made or not, it is balanced on melee and they arent the ones abusing it.
JackMcSnipeyz1 votesThats like saying marksmen dont abuse rylies because it's not meant for them. Just like some items are made specifically for a specific class, BotrK is made for marksmen and should be balanced around them
astralwit1 votesHow do you make BoRK equally good on melees and ADCs? It may be overtuned for ADCs now but isn't really for melees.
Kats Pajamas1 votesIt's like talking to a wall. Botrk deals Current%HP dmg.
If you think you should be buying it every game, this is wrong.
The highest tier of pro-play isn't 'just every game'.
Botrk scales as an item, almost every person that buys it in pro play is thinking about late game, because if it wasn't pro-play, they would win before late game exists. Not only are they considering the fact that they're scaling out the whole game, but when they buy it Baron normally crosses their mind too.
Combine it's actual mechanics of bleeding off the high poke HP and it's easy to see why it's favored, you just auto 3 times and then use your abilites to nuke their remaining HP and that's enough to kill someone on almost any ADC. Then you also get a crazy slow-speed stealer that is more effective and useful now that ghostblade is better and being spammed and the re-rise of mobility creep.
But if you think this is a cure-all replacement and is better than a 3/0 IE start, nope no way.
