Stoneplate ChoGath needs to be hotfixed

HateDaddy·Jul 20, 2017·6 votes·677 views

Last night, as Nasus, I got executed by a Stoneplate Cho at 1900 HP. Nine-fucking-teen Hund-fucking-red True Damage all at once from a full tank. Even old full AP Cho'Gath couldn't approach this amount of true damage without absurd runes/masteries/build. I'm a Cho player, he's one of my most played champions but this is fucking ridiculous.

No champion in the game can hit you with 2k true damage up front. Darius needs full AD+5 stacks. Fiora needs to proc vitals. Vayne needs to auto attack you about 12 times. All of these champions need ridiculous events to occur to reach this amount and they don't do it all at once, they do it over time giving you opportunity to do something about it. And they don't build full tank.

For the love of god, fix this shit. This is one of the most broken interactions this game has ever seen.

23 Comments

Ultra Rapid FyreJul 20, 20172 votes

well the real issue is that stoneplate should be reducing the damage while its active by 60% regardless of true damage or not.

True damage is meant to bypass MITIGATION, not damage reduction from the player themself

Sir FuzziJul 20, 20173 votes

Right here.

AmenPersonJul 20, 20171 votes

Well it's the thing where if True Damage was reduced by damage reduction, it really wouldn't be True Damage.

I'l use fighting games as an example as to why. A true combo is an "inescapable combo." So in other words, once you get hit by the first hit of a combo, you are stuck in it unless the attacker messes up.

The same thing can apply to true damage, inescapable damage, as in that damage will always happen, no matter what. It really wouldn't be true damage like I said before if it was reduced by damage reduction. It would kinda make it's concept foolish then.

Ultra Rapid FyreJul 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well it's the thing where if True Damage was reduced by damage reduction, it really wouldn't be True Damage.

I'l use fighting games as an example as to why. A true combo is an "inescapable combo." So in other words, once you get hit by the first hit of a combo, you are stuck in it unless the attacker messes up.

The same thing can apply to true damage, inescapable damage, as in that damage will always happen, no matter what. It really wouldn't be true damage like I said before if it was reduced by damage reduction. It would kinda make it's concept foolish then.

You're missing the point of what true damage is

True damage is damage dealt by passing all enemy defenses a.k.a. it ignores ENEMY armor and ENEMY magic resistances, that is the literal definition of true damage

The damage reduction from Stoneplate, is an UPFRONT SELF mitigating damage. Because it has NOTHING to do with enemy defensive stats, whether its true damage or normal damage, all damage coming from the player themself, to them self would make the fact of true damage vs any other kind of damage irrelevant.

TL;DR True damage bypasses ENEMY RESISTANCES Self Mitigation reduces damage REGARDLESS AND SEPARATE from enemy stats The damage would be reduced by 60% upfront THEN THAT DAMAGE Should be TRUE to the enemy

1000 damage mitigated by 60% SELF reduction = 400 damage That 400 damage would be dealt as TRUE damage while the stoneplate is active aka the enemy takes 400 damage no matter their defenses.

Thats how it should work

HateDaddyJul 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ultra Rapid Fyre,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r5E1ry1A,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-20T21:17:23.822+0000)

well the real issue is that stoneplate should be reducing the damage while its active by 60% regardless of true damage or not.

True damage is meant to bypass MITIGATION, not damage reduction from the player themself

You can easily make an exception for abusive cases. Just make it reduce all damage, bam Cho is fine.

ChargeItDownMidJul 20, 20171 votes

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HateDaddyJul 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Garen can do it with an execute and he actually has mobility.

The problem with old ap cho'gath is that even at his height, his ult never did enough damage for a melee range spell on an immobile champion. That is why he fell off a cliff the second riot change his w instant cast and he was so bad even when stoneplate was first introduced.

Nerf the e first and see where the winrate falls. Problem with nerfing the ult is that it realistically won't effect his winrate much and his e will need to get nerfed afterwards anyway making the nerf on the ult unwarranted.

Garen is required to have that be his villain, something he has no control over and it doesn't reach 2k plus true damage, be real.

Big LincolnJul 20, 20171 votes

It does against cho'gath ;)

AmenPersonJul 20, 20171 votes

I mean, the Villian will be the person doing the best on the enemy team. So it targets the person you want to have shut down.

HateDaddyJul 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I mean, the Villian will be the person doing the best on the enemy team. So it targets the person you want to have shut down.

So what? Garen still can't control it and the enemy in need of being shut down will likely be the hardest to get. This also doesn't stack hp/damage for every execute he gets with it.

AmenPersonJul 20, 20171 votes

Being hard to get to doesn't really mean anything to buffed Garen now, considering he has a movement speed boost, and a damage reduction and tenacity boost.

He can just run at them to kill them if they're being protected.

ChargeItDownMidJul 20, 20171 votes

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HateDaddyJul 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And cho is immobile as hell so that is more than enough of a tradeoff considering how important mobility is

garen ult reaching 2K plus is as realistic as chogath ult reaching 2K plus. Remember, cho will only hit that mark super lategame

Garen has a petty MS boost, that's hardly mobile. Cho'Gath has a ranged aoe knock-up, which serves about reliably as garens Q. It also requires Garen or an ally of Garens to damage someone significantly before he can do his execute true damage, Cho can do it whenever. Stop comparing these two as if they are the same, they aren't. A full tank under no circumstances should be doing 2k damage. I can promise you if they removed this interaction, his winrate would drop drastically.

ChargeItDownMidJul 20, 20171 votes

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AmenPersonJul 20, 20171 votes

I mean OP, this man does have a point. Cho never went up when stoneplate was added. Nor did it go up when Cho's ult was buffed.

HateDaddyJul 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Just like how much his winrate increased when stoneplate was added? Oh wait nvm it didn't move at all.

Also, never said the two spells were similar. Just pointing out there is another ult which can do as much as cho's ult on a champion who can actually get in range to use it efficiently more often.

They gave him the ability to stick to someone, making him more reliable. And that's totally fine, Cho needed to be more reliable. But if he's going to be reliable with his E slows, he doesnt need to be doing 2k+ true damage.

ChargeItDownMidJul 20, 20172 votes

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HateDaddyJul 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Which goes back to the point that the ult never actually an issue issue. Cho's strength will depend on how reliable his regular spells are. He was balanced when w was instant cast, horrible when he lost that, and godlike now that his e has 3 instances of aoe slows. Inbetween these changes, his ult was changed to scale with hp and stoneplate was added and those two changes did NOTHING to his winrate. As long as he is immobile, his ult will never be the reason why he is strong or weak.

Your logic is so flawed. This interaction with his ult needs to just not be a thing, there's nothing balanced about it and even though it hasn't presented problems in the past doesn't mean it can be a problem under the right circumstance. You're justifying it because Cho wasn't reliable, what are you proposing? He go back to being unreliable? It's laughable. He just needs this interaction to be removed and then you can focus on weakening other areas if they're too strong.

5050BSJul 20, 20171 votes

How can he if he does only 40% damage?

Meep ManJul 20, 20172 votes

True Damage isn't reduced

ParoeJul 20, 20171 votes

@thread I like how a player complaining about a raid boss champion was playing a raid boss champion...

Cho-gath is a raid boss champion. Dont let him scale. Keep him shut down. He, like veigar, sion, and nasus, are meant VERY much so to be targeted if theyre farming.