Can we do something about this toxic camp lanes meta in the jungle role

Rexxiee·Aug 5, 2017·52 votes·3,195 views

Its not okay for junglers to spam ganks mindlessly and still keep up because of catch up exp.

Its absolute aids to play as a laner against who rushes and does nothing but camp and spam gank lanes and ignoring turrets with her E, he can have 20 cs by 10 minutes and hes still same level as the other jungler, its absurd, it completely trivializes the early game in lanes and the games turn into a game of "which jungler is better at spamming ganks in the first 10 minutes of the game wins".

98 Comments

EedatAug 5, 201722 votes

Problem is going to be that another blanket nerf of Jungle exp is going to punish non-meta junglers much harder than the already meta ones. The season 7 changes killed off a lot of jungle diversity and it still hasn't been addressed yet with the exception of tanks. It would probably be easier to nerf the proven problem children directly at this point

CamilleRule34Aug 5, 20173 votes

Honestly I feel a major elo schism here because Ive never been like /camped/ by an elise.

RexxieeAug 5, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Honestly I feel a major elo schism here because Ive never been like /camped/ by an elise.

Because you play in silver 5, junglers in your elo die to the jungle in their first clear.

RalanrAug 5, 201730 votes

Silvers don't die in first clears.

Bronze 5 maybe. But not silvers.

GGLineaRAug 5, 201710 votes

Speaking from a Bronze 4 perspective, it's rarer than you think.

sirwaterflesAug 6, 20172 votes

Speaking from high gold: it happens more here than you would think.

ninjaroxasAug 6, 20171 votes

I saw a like plat level graves die at level 3 to a camp

SpecterVonBarenAug 7, 20171 votes

I'm in diamond and I've seen it happen here too more than you'd think.

nice tableAug 6, 20171 votes

i commonly died on my first clear up to plat 1 hue

PluniverseAug 6, 20175 votes

Well you are from EUW...

LauchmelderAug 6, 20176 votes

That means it's happening up to Diamond in NA though

Serika ZeroAug 6, 20171 votes

i'm (was) plat 5 and sometimes i die in the jungle. it happens in every elo, even in diamond, sometimes the person jungling is risking a bit to much and ends up dying

PluniverseAug 7, 20171 votes

Plat 5 is still gold.

Serika ZeroAug 7, 20171 votes

fine, plat 3. 5,4,3 there's little difference in between

people still die to jungle ;)

GayFluffyUnicornAug 5, 20172 votes

Well what elo are you then? I can send you the replay of my last urgot game. 9 ganks in 10 mins. All toplane. 4 times elise alone and the rest with kassa. Legit 1v3 toplane fiesta, constantly getting doven and there is nothing you can do about if you have the autofilled bonobo.

Ariel the CruelAug 5, 20176 votes

If your team is smart: they sacrifice you. Sorry, but true. Bot lane is the most valuable. Followed by mid. If their mid and jungle are camping top, then mid and bot have no map pressure. Best you can do in this scenario: hold out long enough for your team to get bot turret before the other team gets top. Bot turret is still the weakest early game, so this shouldn't be impossible.

Rins Thigh SocksAug 6, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Honestly I feel a major elo schism here because Ive never been like /camped/ by an elise.

Are you in the middle of your lane?

Ok Elise walked behind you and casually auto's you with red buff until you have to flash. Then hits you with a pretty unmissable stun.

Good luck going back into lane, she's gonna be waiting in the bush and will dive you next.

And as soon as you get back to lane, she'll be waiting in the brush for you to ward.

A really good Elise camp in D4+ is dirty.

CamilleRule34Aug 6, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r49dYVd1,comment-id=000100000002,timestamp=2017-08-06T04:32:16.216+0000)

Are you in the middle of your lane?

Ok Elise walked behind you and casually auto's you with red buff until you have to flash. Then hits you with a pretty unmissable stun.

Good luck going back into lane, she's gonna be waiting in the bush and will dive you next.

And as soon as you get back to lane, she'll be waiting in the brush for you to ward.

A really good Elise camp in D4+ is dirty.

If Im mid lane, the majority of the people I play don't even need to a quarter way to tower to dish out damage and push the lane ( Most Vel Koz) and realistically the Elise shouldnt be able to walk up to me. She might be able to Cocoon me, but at the same time Tectonic Shift has relatively equal range, and her movements would be telegraphed.

I dont get ganked because its my one claim to fame, very few people in my elo can sucessfully gank me. *(unless im adc)

Rins Thigh SocksAug 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If Im mid lane, the majority of the people I play don't even need to a quarter way to tower to dish out damage and push the lane ( Most Vel Koz) and realistically the Elise shouldnt be able to walk up to me. She might be able to Cocoon me, but at the same time Tectonic Shift has relatively equal range, and her movements would be telegraphed.

I dont get ganked because its my one claim to fame, very few people in my elo can sucessfully gank me. *(unless im adc)

No offense dude but I looked you up and that doesn't seem to work too well since your cs scores are relatively low, and high cs is super important because it's far less risky than vying for kills. On top of that, if you're too far back your opponent can roam on you or just freeze the wave near their tower and they can easily farm a huge advantage over you.

The problem is if you're in high elo, you NEED to get a high creep score (exception to specific lanes or matchups), and this often means you should be in autoattack range of the creeps to apply pressure. This puts you at risk of Elise Flash Cocoons which will often require you to burn a summoner spell or eat most of your life in combo damage, if not all of it.

It's a really nasty camp when it does happen.

CamilleRule34Aug 6, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r49dYVd1,comment-id=00010000000200000000,timestamp=2017-08-06T18:59:32.621+0000)

No offense dude but I looked you up and that doesn't seem to work too well since your cs scores are relatively low, and high cs is super important because it's far less risky than vying for kills. On top of that, if you're too far back your opponent can roam on you or just freeze the wave near their tower and they can easily farm a huge advantage over you.

The problem is if you're in high elo, you NEED to get a high creep score (exception to specific lanes or matchups), and this often means you should be in autoattack range of the creeps to apply pressure. This puts you at risk of Elise Flash Cocoons which will often require you to burn a summoner spell or eat most of your life in combo damage, if not all of it.

It's a really nasty camp when it does happen.

Thats because im bad at csing, and it ssomething I need work on.

Rins Thigh SocksAug 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Thats because im bad at csing, and it ssomething I need work on.

Yeah and the more you work on it the more you need to be near the wave, especially early on.

And the more you cs the more you will naturally climb purely by having a higher gold value than your opponents.

Ergo the better you cs the more vulnerable you are to Elise's nonsense.

13900 EssenceAug 6, 20176 votes

Like I said on another post, I've always hated the concept of catch-up exp.

When you make a play that stops your farming (regardless of role), you should be sacrificing the experience that you get from it.

You shouldn't be able to gank a lane, ending up a level down on your enemy counterpart, and then just farm up to catch up within seconds when you are already ahead in gold if the gank was successful.

LOSINGISMYPRIDEAug 6, 20171 votes

If there is no catch up there is no lvl for the jungler creep so theyre easier to clear right ? right ? So faster clear = more gank .

13900 EssenceAug 6, 20172 votes

Catch-up exp does not relate to the lvl of the jg creeps. It literally just gives more experience for CSing if you are behind.

Also, ganking is almost never done after just full clearing your jg. You usually do certain paths that leave out certain camps to ensure better gank timings.

LOSINGISMYPRIDEAug 6, 20171 votes

you know the catch up xp work with the time youre in game right ? For example you wont get 1000 xp by minion if you come into a game as a lvl 1 when there is 40 min passed and it goes the same for the jungle because there will anyways be no jungle left to farm .

13900 EssenceAug 6, 20172 votes

You have no idea what you are talking about.

HensetsuAug 6, 20174 votes

In game : Pls gank ur doing nothing

On Boards : Ganks are too strong

According to the Boards, Supports are hidden OP. Reworked Tanks are OP. ADC's are OP. Assassins are OP. Fighters are OP. Bruisers are OP. The game is dictated by the better jungler. The game is dictated by the better ADC. Control mages are OP. What the hell is balanced then?

Wildlife1Aug 6, 20171 votes

Actually in Boards Mages are undertuned, but that's none of my business

Votable JesterAug 6, 20171 votes

Nope, in Boards, mage items are stale. They may be effective, but they're boring and have little real choice involved.

SpecterVonBarenAug 7, 20171 votes

Of course there's real choice! You could start with item 1052 or item 3108 or even item 3802 before upgrading to item 3165 !

SanKakUAug 6, 20172 votes

According to the Boards... Reworked Tanks are OP....

In game: nobody picks Sejuani On boards: "a lot of people play Sejuani"

You mean people with 0 rerolls in ARAM? I think they just dodge, right?

CamilleRule34Aug 5, 20173 votes

If you want to send me your replay file I can actually coach you and point out where you're making yourself gankable. But really if you're being camped all you can do is play it safe and avoid dying. Since the jungler is abusing you, they arent there to abuse others. A lot of it is knowledge of where the jungler is. If shes a major pain, get a far sght so you dont have to go anywhere near any bushes.

RexxieeAug 5, 20172 votes

{quoted}

If you want to send me your replay file I can actually coach you and point out where you're making yourself gankable. But really if you're being camped all you can do is play it safe and avoid dying. Since the jungler is abusing you, they arent there to abuse others. A lot of it is knowledge of where the jungler is. If shes a major pain, get a far sght so you dont have to go anywhere near any bushes.

Elise can literally ignore towers with her E as early as lvl 3.

And i doesnt matter if i dont die, being zoned from the wave because she sits at tri for 2 minutes its as good as losing lane, then she goes back to the jungle, clears raptors + krugs and now shes same lvl as everyone on the map, there is no counterplay to this.

CamilleRule34Aug 5, 20173 votes

My offer still stands.

RexxieeAug 5, 20173 votes

{quoted}

My offer still stands.

No offense by im diamond myself, i know very well how to deal with ganks, its just that there is no counterplay to being camped atm as a laner other than hope your jungler actually helps you because junglers arent punished for not farming and camping lanes.

Before this stupid catchup system was in place, if a jungler played like this they would've been 3 levels behind the other jungler in 10 minutes.

ShablagooAug 5, 20173 votes

Or you could just ward, that helps to thing is if you are getting ganked constantly you are probably the losing lane and that just makes it better to gank because that lane will snowball, ask your jg to get a lead in another lane becuase unless he gets a good countergank you lane is screwed.

SpecterVonBarenAug 7, 20172 votes

Green wards don't exist anymore.

ShablagooAug 7, 20171 votes

Ya it sucks, they give you a free one but honestly I never understood the reason why they removed it and made it specifically a support item. I think everyone being able to buy wards makes more sense especially consider the fact that everyone gets duskblade. It also really limits supports build paths because they have to get it, I mean not super hindered but its annoying especially if they dont get it themselves.

OriyokiAug 5, 20173 votes

Because they can't farm jungle? If they wouldn't gank, they would struggle with killing camps eventually. Also junglers gain a lot of experience point from killing minions on lane and kills/assists.

To counter ganks, buy some wards and play smart.

Blade of JusticAug 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Because they can't farm jungle? If they wouldn't gank, they would struggle with killing camps eventually. Also junglers gain a lot of experience point from killing minions on lane and kills/assists.

To counter ganks, buy some wards and play smart.

Or play Kled and get a double kill from a gank.

Beas7ieAug 9, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r49dYVd1,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-08-06T11:51:31.845+0000)

Or play Kled and get a double kill from a gank.

That's Illaoi who does that you silly goose!

BlåbæretAug 6, 20173 votes

It's completely ridiculous that junglers with half my CS who literally sits in their best bud's lane still outlevels me. Makes no freaking sense.

Meep ManAug 6, 20172 votes

Remember that their CS is worth about twice as much your normal CS and for good reason. Compare Red Buff to a Melee Minion or even Cannon Minion. However, I also don't like the camp lanes motive going on either.

Tobias BracknerAug 6, 20173 votes

Ward.

Tell your Jungler to steal their Jungler's camps.

AirKingNeoAug 6, 20173 votes

Nerf catchup XP then.

Weasel KenseiAug 6, 20171 votes

I had an emotionally unstable crybitch jungler that started cussing mat me cause I launched a Q with Ziggs at the enemy jg while they were fighting and I got the last hit.... they were doing their impression of a screaming baby, and I told them to cry thats how I get an erection to troll them and they said they can afk... I told them to go ahead, and they did.

This was all around level 3-4 ish. They come back for the last 5 minutes of the game and get like a handfull of jungle camps and minion waves and they are 2 levels behind the rest of us getting to level 10.

Catch up XP is a good thing, but I think it favors the junglers with utility too much because they can play with less items, but still impact the lanes a lot with their ganks without having to farm for gold as much.

AirKingNeoAug 6, 20173 votes

Catchup XP is an absurd rate right now.

TormentulaAug 6, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I ignoring turrets with her W,

You mean her E right?

Weasel KenseiAug 6, 20171 votes

W is the spider, E is the stun... E is a projectile, turrets ignore every projectile, why would he comment on turret ignoring a projectile. The W behaves slightly like a pet, just one with no HP bar... so no they dont mean E.