Dragon's Descent? more like Dragon's suck-ent...

Dominick Destine·Nov 27, 2015·13 votes·1,801 views

Dragon's Descent is absolutely the worst gap closer in the game. It has a long activation time that telegraphs the move to enemies and the travel time is one of the longest in the game.

Imagine if Shyvana traveled at the same that LEE SIN travels during his Q dash. Dragon's Descent would be far less suck. Now remember that Dragon's Descent is stopped very easily, has a long cast time and slow travel time.... NOW REMEMBER IT IS AN ULTIMATE ABILITY.

How the fiddle sticks is Shyvana's ult worse than every other dash/gapcloser skill in the game?

Shyvana super nerfed, Ao Shin scrapped.... Let's face it; Riot is racist against Dragons.

35 Comments

WoonStruckNov 27, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r046AEqy,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-27T21:58:44.842+0000)

Dragon's Descent is absolutely the worst gap closer in the game. It has a long activation time that telegraphs the move to enemies and the travel time is one of the longest in the game.

Imagine if Shyvana traveled at the same that LEE SIN travels during his Q dash. Dragon's Descent would be far less suck. Now remember that Dragon's Descent is stopped very easily, has a long cast time and slow travel time.... NOW REMEMBER IT IS AN ULTIMATE ABILITY.

How the fiddle sticks is Shyvana's ult worse than every other dash/gapcloser skill in the game?

Let's face it , Shyvana super nerfed, Ao Shin scrapped.... Riot is racist against Dragons.

TBH, her ult isn't for the gapcloser. Its for all of the bonuses you get while in dragon form. The small gapcloser just helps you get into a fight. Shyv isn't really an initiator.

Dominick DestineNov 27, 20154 votes

{quoted}

her ult isn't for the gapcloser

By that logic, Lee's dash should be slower and do less damage because "His Q isn't for the dash... it's for the vision"

Shyv isn't really an initiator.

Wrong. Shyvana by definition is an initiator... she's just so terrible at it that it's almost not even worth calling her that.

Professor WardNov 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r046AEqy,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-11-27T22:06:12.231+0000)

By that logic, Lee's dash should be slower and do less damage because "His Q isn't for the dash... it's for the vision"

Wrong. Shyvana by definition is an initiator... she's just so terrible at it that it's almost not even worth calling her that.

agreed theres a reason shes on the bottom of tier lists and when she makes it on a tier list its as top laner... shyv jungle is sub par at best.

WoonStruckNov 27, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r046AEqy,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-11-27T22:06:12.231+0000)

By that logic, Lee's dash should be slower and do less damage because "His Q isn't for the dash... it's for the vision"

Wrong. Shyvana by definition is an initiator... she's just so terrible at it that it's almost not even worth calling her that.

She's not an initiator lol. Irelia isn't an initiator, Jax isn't an initiator. They CAN initiate, but they are much, MUCH better off if someone else does it for them. Shyv is the exact same way.

Bruisers may be able to initiate, but they are not initiators. They are duelists and divers the majority of the time. What you're suggesting is like saying yi, talon, zed, etc are initiators.

If you want to know what an initiator looks like, try playing Malphite, Alistar, Maokai, Warwick etc.

And lee's Q isn't for the vision. Its for the gapclose and damage. You're making really bad points here.

Professor WardNov 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And lee's Q isn't for the vision. Its for the gapclose and damage. You're making really bad points here.

he literally said this youre just bad at sarcasm

Professor WardNov 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

TBH, her ult isn't for the gapcloser. Its for all of the bonuses you get while in dragon form. The small gapcloser just helps you get into a fight. Shyv isn't really an initiator.

Her ult is def for the gapcloser/wall jump if that were the case its still just as strong as a leona w and much weaker than an ali ult, etc etc as an ult shyvs feels very weak aside for the attack range buff that they added this patch its a very weak ult compared to others. Imo the displacement needs to be a lil more severe.

JustMyBassCannonNov 28, 20153 votes

As a Shyvana main, I agree that her ultimate dash should be improved, either in the dash speed or by being uninterrupted. They also need to debug the collision on it, both in what units are struck by the dash and in whether or not it will jump over walls. I've seriously had issues sometimes, trying to jump over walls at certain angles.

WoonStruckNov 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

As a Shyvana main, I agree that her ultimate dash should be improved, either in the dash speed or by being uninterrupted. They also need to debug the collision on it, both in what units are struck by the dash and in whether or not it will jump over walls. I've seriously had issues sometimes, trying to jump over walls at certain angles.

I could definitely get behind it being uninterruptible. It 'kinda' makes sense thematically, and definitely solidifies it feeling like a powerful moment.

Espy PsycheNov 27, 20152 votes

Shyvana's ult just needs to work like Hecarim's and Malphite's, i.e. she becomes immune to CC while using it like they do.

Dominick DestineNov 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Espy Psyche,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r046AEqy,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-27T22:32:35.625+0000)

Shyvana's ult just needs to work like Hecarim's and Malphite's, i.e. she becomes immune to CC while using it like they do.

That would be perfect. Even though it is much slower than Hec/Malph, it should at least carry immunity to displacement/disables.

BoulderoxNov 27, 20151 votes

or even thematically be what it says.... almost a pantheon ult without map pressure... Dragons decent... shyv jumps... BOOM shyvanna crashes into the ground knocking everyone within the range up is my dream for her.... she has so little cc that a long Cd knockup is too much to ask?

Dominick DestineNov 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

or even thematically be what it says.... almost a pantheon ult without map pressure... Dragons decent... shyv jumps... BOOM shyvanna crashes into the ground knocking everyone within the range up is my dream for her.... she has so little cc that a long Cd knockup is too much to ask?

Actually, thematically speaking; It would make more sense for her ult to cast fear on the enemies. Dragon's traditionally inspire fear through their roar... but then that would just make her ult the same as Hecarim.

BoulderoxNov 27, 20152 votes

yea but there are a few champs that share simular ults anyways... Garen & Veigar Chogath are point and click damage... Zilean Tryndamere Kayle , loosly Yorick ult around undying. Skarner Malzahar , supressing a target point and click. Lucian MissFortune lots of bullets... Zac Gragas XinZhao fly away... there are very small differences however but thematically there are plenty of champs that have simular ults, idk why riot can't change it to something simular... but the QWE makes her playstyle different and makes it so they aren't a carbon copy of each other. A hecarim style ult for shyvana would complement her in SPADES.

Pierce The VealNov 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r046AEqy,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2015-11-27T23:00:23.465+0000)

Actually, thematically speaking; It would make more sense for her ult to cast fear on the enemies. Dragon's traditionally inspire fear through their roar... but then that would just make her ult the same as Hecarim.

It should a fear that causes them to bundle up together in front of her. Because also traditionally, dragons tended to unite people from their fear. This would also allow her to make uses of her aoe skills.

IcyPepperNov 27, 20152 votes

How the fiddle sticks is Shyvana's ult worse than every other dash/gapcloser skill in the game?

Well, to be fair it boosts her defenses and abilities for a short time, kind of like a glorified stance change.

But... eh. It shouldn't be Malphite levels of ult glory (in terms of dash, I mean! Malphite doesn't get anything after the knockup), but it should at least be on par with a Lee, Vi, or Sejuani dash.

Pierce The VealNov 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well, to be fair it boosts her defenses and abilities for a short time, kind of like a glorified stance change.

But... eh. It shouldn't be Malphite levels of ult glory (in terms of dash, I mean! Malphite doesn't get anything after the knockup), but it should at least be on par with a Lee, Vi, or Sejuani dash.

Still not sure why it's so buggy and why it's not allowed to scale with ad.

IcyPepperNov 28, 20152 votes

Honestly, I have no idea either. I could guess for the second, but only guess.

Pierce The VealNov 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, I have no idea either. I could guess for the second, but only guess.

Let's be honest, it wouldn't be broken even if we gave it a 2.0 total AD ratio. We can't even tell if it hits when it does hit around half the time anyway.

Dominick DestineNov 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Malphite doesn't get anything after the knockup

What do you mean aside from the knockup? he does massive damage and his knockup stun is arguably the best in the game in addition to being tied to one of the best dashes (The best?) because of its immunity to displacement and it's high speed.

Your argument is nonsense. That's like saying "Veigar's ult doesn't get anything aside from more damage with AP" , yeah, no @$#*&

IcyPepperNov 28, 20152 votes

I was more referring to that Shyvanna has her dragon form, and boosted stats and abilities alongside the activation dash while Malphite's ult power is more upfront.

Certainly Shyvanna's ult could feel more... empowering, but the activation portion won't be nearly as powerful as Malphite's.

And yes, it's very powerful mobility and damage. I meant more about the activation (he doesn't get anything after the ult itself is done), I didn't mean he doesn't get anything other than a knockup. That's on me, so I apologize. Should've picked my words better.

Your argument is nonsense. That's like saying "Veigar's ult doesn't get anything aside from more damage with AP" , yeah, no @$#*&

If your response is "No shit," then how is it nonsense?

ShyvauniNov 27, 20151 votes

As someone who Plays Shyvana fairly regularly (unless I get bit by a bug that causes me to try out something new) I feel her ult is fine. I would love to see her W get the same treatment as Garens Q. Alowing it to removes slows on cast.

Pierce The VealNov 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

As someone who Plays Shyvana fairly regularly (unless I get bit by a bug that causes me to try out something new) I feel her ult is fine. I would love to see her W get the same treatment as Garens Q. Alowing it to removes slows on cast.

That would be horrifying.

I like it.

ShyvauniNov 27, 20151 votes

How would it be Horrifying? It would allow her to stick easier in the league of mobility and get away fro juggernauts a bit easier considering she is not currently a Juggernaut just a regular bruiser.

Pierce The VealNov 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How would it be Horrifying? It would allow her to stick easier in the league of mobility and get away fro juggernauts a bit easier considering she is not currently a Juggernaut just a regular bruiser.

The cooldown on her auto goes down with auto attacks, and I like to build cdr on her, that's why it would be horrifying.

ShyvauniNov 28, 20151 votes

Her Q goes down with autos yes.. however her W does not affect her auto attacks at all... It i the fire spinning around her + MS boost ability. Not I compared her W to garens Q I meant just the movespeed aspect. Garens resets auto + procs a silence however if a slow was on him before he pressed Q his Q clears the slow off. I just want her w to clear off MS slows XD

TedBearSurvivalNov 27, 20151 votes

fus ro dah

biobirbbyyNov 27, 20151 votes

Dragon's Descent? more like Dragon's suck-ent...

Oh god. That joke is the reason I wanna downvote xD

CanidaeNov 28, 20151 votes

Being able to black shield that skill as Morgana (without a hard read) is hilarious.

PrinceOfStormsNov 28, 20151 votes

Shyvana needs two things:

Increased projectile speed on her ult.
Immunity to all forms of CC during it (a la Vi ult).

Dominick DestineNov 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Shyvana needs two things:

Increased projectile speed on her ult.

Immunity to all forms of CC during it (a la Vi ult).

That would be perfect but Riot does not like to provide strength to any character that isn't Lee/Thresh/Riven/Yasuo, so I doubt they'd even provide half of that.

JedenVojakNov 28, 20151 votes

Actually I would say the worst gap closer in the game is probably Leona's E, as it doesn't always work.

Akali is SO HOTNov 28, 20151 votes

how about we don't buff shyvanna

Count ZubatNov 28, 20151 votes

While I can agree that Shyvana's ult isn't the most spectacular ability ever, she really isn't dependant on it. It is there to help her get into the fight. Not initiate, it's not really her role. She is more of a follow-up, jumping into a fight just after initiator. And buffing her would be a huge mistake imo. Shyvana is super strong and is also known for being able to use any new strong tank or on hit item to full potential, becoming nearly broken. Imo, she was even overbuffed a bit at the beginning of Season 5, when her W got 2 changes:

20% increased damage against minions and neutral monsters. This made Shyvana probably the fastest farmer in the game. Before this buff, she already cleared the jungle quite fast without any problem. But now, she clears it fast as shit.
I'll quote it from patch notes: "NEW EFFECT: While active, Shyvana's attacks will deal 「 5 / 8.75 / 12.5 / 16.25 / 20 (+ 5% bonus AD) 」 as bonus magic damage." The damage was nerfed a bit to 5 / 8.25 / 11.25 / 14.5 / 17.5, but it was a huge buff to a champion already known as one of the best duelists in the game (imo, only Trundle is probably better).

Later that season, we witnessed how strong Shyvana is. When Cinderhulk came in, she became one of the biggest abusers of it, creating a Smite/Tp top lane strategy, that worked well only on her and Hecarim. And then again, after Cinderhulk and red smite were nerfed and everybody thought the terror of Shyvana is over, another item came in which made Shyvana broken once again: Sated Devourer. She is still very strong with it, just meta shifted a bit and it doesn't support that playstyle as much as few months ago.

Shyvana is like Kayle of bruisers: whenever a proper item gets released, she becomes super strong again. You can't just buff her out of nowhere.