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I would like to remind to people something about Sion

Ahristocats·Feb 21, 2018·14 votes·1,359 views

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNd47pu6Amo

it seems that everytime you try to create a balance discussion about Sion, everyone starts to talk about everything but balance

"you hate tanks" "you love gangplank dominating the toplane" "sion is fair to play against" "sion has counterplay"

this is just a compilation of what i saw, and it's in my opinion important to remember the main discussion: Sion is overtuned, imbalanced, anything you want

He may have counterplay, good design or anything you want, but this does not mean he can avoid nerfs his numbers are just too high due to comet+scorch+mana flow band, the fact that laners lost magic resistance runes makes it way worse you like to play against sion? I don't think everyone likes to get outlaned by a rocket spell that is able to deal 300 damage or more and is on a low cooldown

https://i.gyazo.com/013af7b1c0d8f5d081a9b9474c6a432c.png

this summons the problem, do you think it's fair for a champion to not have a single counter at all? currently those 3 champions are your highest probability of winning, and Sion still has a probability above 50% to win against them, which means it's even higher against other champions

Logic wise, this needs a nerf, if we want equality Sion is not equal to other toplaners right now and it has nothing to do with design

you can list all the counterplays to his spells, but it doesn't matter if he's numerically superior, no one in the past was balanced with 55/56% win rate and 10% pick rate Not to forget that now he started to be picked in the lcs

what made Sion balanced before, was his E not working half of the time, which means his poke ability was hindered by an unsatisfying phenomena Maokai had his Q damage reduced due to the lose of MR runes, now that Sion's E is not bugged anymore it deserves the same treatment

24 Comments

Common SatyrFeb 21, 20182 votes

How on earth is karthus a counter to sion? Try Anivia or Kalista against him, he will hate life (yes i know they arnt in his lane, but you should be counter picking more than your lane match up).

Also Yorick, anyone that creates terrain will screw his ult.

AhristocatsFeb 21, 20182 votes

he's only considered as a counter because he has the best stats against sion

anything not named karthus/singed/yasuo will have a lower %win rate against sion which means your best bet is to pick karthus/singed/yasuo

Jerry SeinfeIdFeb 22, 20181 votes

Because toplane karthus is played by few people, mostly mains (and me from time to time). Edit: he often Has the highest winrate top, for the same reasons as Sion support. Out of personal experience you can often just hug your turret for 30 minutes, group up and beat the shit out of the enemy in a teamfight. Pretty much making sure Sion didn't get to snowball. Add to that that karthus pretty much Has the same passive.

I'm just trying to reason though, i've only played singed and gnar into commet Sion. Neither Sion managed to land more than one minion/5 minutes.

Singed is most likely good because he can stop Q, easily dodges half his kit, kites him and with rylai's even a dead Sion won't be doing much against him.

Gnar feels fine for the same reasons except the Q interupt.

Z3SleeperFeb 22, 20181 votes

As a Yorick D1 OTP I can confirm that Sion destroys and dominates Yorick pre-6 and still contests at 6. It's not until mid-game that Yorick beats Sion.

Yorick is one of the immobile melees that gets screwed by his combo in lane the most. And since Yorick is an immobile melee, there is no counterplay, it's just 0 counterplay combo eating if you try to CS. Impossible to dodge E which guarantees Q and W.

His ult is the least of your concerns.

DivewingFeb 22, 20182 votes

I would like to remind you that both sets of people are talking about different things.

You blame Sion for being OP right now, they blame the Runes.

So yeah, take what they are saying out of context and try to make it suit your viewpoint, it's gonna come out as some big fat nonsense

Z3SleeperFeb 22, 20182 votes

The runes are what made him a problem, but you don't nerf an entire system for a single abuse case. You fix the abuse case.

Which is why their argument still comes out as some big fat nonsense.

Also OP is blaming runes as well. He literally states it in the OP. Don't take what he's saying out of context either.

Sun Wu RyuumokuFeb 22, 20182 votes

he's not only broken with comet, just saying.

AhristocatsFeb 22, 20182 votes

they take glacial augment in LCK

Sun Wu RyuumokuFeb 22, 20182 votes

Thanks God, never experienced this.

AhristocatsFeb 22, 20182 votes

don't think it's too bad tbh comet is worse

Death by GlamourFeb 21, 20181 votes

Just to point out he was also the highest winrate support. Granted he is played far less often but her really should not be down here muscling out traditional supports.

Diamond2KappaFeb 21, 20182 votes

isnt Sion like always the highest win rate support tho?

AhristocatsFeb 21, 20185 votes

yea because his pick rate is low

but toplane, his pick rate used to be low until now according to leagueofgraph in diamond+ he has 15% pick rate now lolalytic states a pick rate of 14% for 21st feb

rework trundleFeb 21, 20181 votes

With a much lower pick rate, yes. His pick rate support is currently 2,7 times higher than in 7.23

Death by GlamourFeb 21, 20181 votes

In masters+ yes

Never in the entire plat + brackets

Hes a whole 2% ahead of janna who is a strong pick herself

Kai GuyFeb 21, 20181 votes

For game health Riot should Always Target outliers.

BütthoundFeb 21, 20181 votes

Sion is cool I'll allow the winrate Sion

MiudmonFeb 21, 20181 votes

I would honestly just increase his e mana cost by like 10-20 at all ranks and call it a day.

He's one of the fairer champs to play against so i don't mind him being reasonably strong, but it is a problem how much and how hard he can poke with his e + comet, so increasing the mana cost will at least prevent him from doing it as much.

Troll for TrumpFeb 22, 20181 votes

Fix his abilities' hitboxes.

Yeah, his numbers have been high for a while now, but they've gotten nerfed before hand. More lovetaps might help. He also has some indirect nerfs.

Z3SleeperFeb 22, 20181 votes

Which ones? I actually hate Sion but I don't have a problem with his hitboxes. They seem fairly clear to me.

Troll for TrumpFeb 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Which ones? I actually hate Sion but I don't have a problem with his hitboxes. They seem fairly clear to me.

W and Q.

The splash radius of 2nd W proc is way too large for the actual size of the shield; compare it to the impact range of his R. Q, you can get hit by it even when you're out of the indicator.

SalamencęFeb 22, 20181 votes

Another case of runes making a champion overpowered. Inb4 they nerf Sion hard just because he makes really good use of a rune. Think of the other champs that have been nerfed because of the new runes: Ezreal (klepto abuse), Gangplank (klepto abuse), Shyvana (PtA abuse), Kha'Zix (dark harvest abuse), Leona (aftershock abuse), Jarvan IV (electrocute abuse), Maokai (aftershock abuse), Xin Zhao (PtA abuse), and Yorick (demolish abuse).

nelogisFeb 22, 20181 votes

If you want to be lazy and just get Sion to a 50% WR or so then yes just nerf his numbers on E and what not.

If you want to let Sion be able to chose a rune other than Comet and Sorcery then you have to put more work into him.

I'm expecting to see something small next patch and a tiny rework to his E ability in 2 patches.

TakaDamaFeb 22, 20181 votes

The best counter to Sion would be Trundle.

E blocks his ult and cancels his Q, leaving him wide open at times.

W allows you to outpace Q early on while also enabling DPS

Q is just good for farmimg and aggro; not really stellar in this matchup

R is basically a godsend against Sion's W and its health buff; basically the more health he has, the more you are healed.

Passive is similar, except early on you can play passively and heal off of minions at turret if need be.

As for support ... Taliyah maybe? Biggest thing post-6 is to ult-block him with terrain, which stuns him for a ridiculous amount of time.

Of course, the problem seems to be with Sion's E not his other abilities ... his scream does a lot for that much range (slow and armor shred and harass and farm)

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