Yorick right now it just a pretty sad thing to see

ValiantKiller·Oct 26, 2018·35 votes·16,300 views

http://i63.tinypic.com/2l9760k.png

The bottom of top laners along with the exception that Ornn saw alot of world players while Yorick saw none.

And if we back to the reason why they nerfed cause he can stomp top lane in split pushing on himself yet they legit just leaving both of and without any nerf.

Plus on the top of that back then they nerfed Q damage which made no difference aside from little nerf in late game while still he doing much better in long run than Yorick cause he didn't get his core damn kit nerfed like Yorick did.

53 Comments

RiotRiot MapleNectarOct 26, 201836 votes

HIs data spiked super low this patch because there was a ghoul bug which hit him to the tune of around 5-8%. The fix was micropatched out yesterday so he should be returning to his former ~52% shortly

ValiantKillerOct 26, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qxAOq2m8,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-10-26T17:07:53.800+0000)

HIs data spiked super low this patch because there was a ghoul bug which hit him to the tune of around 5-8%. The fix was micropatched out yesterday so he should be returning to his former ~52% shortly

Ohh no one did hear about that bug, we getting a feedback on that in the patch notes soon ?

ZerenzaOct 27, 20181 votes

Meddler actually posted about it in his Gameplay Updates, i don't think it'll hit patch notes but for context for those that don't know what the bug was.

Yoricks Gouls spawned from his ultimate were spawning with level 1 stats unstead of scaling to Yoricks level, meaning that only his ghouls that spawned from minions or monster kills were doing damage mid-late game and if you used your ultimate all your ghouls would be reverted basically to level 1.

feintfiendOct 26, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qxAOq2m8,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-10-26T17:07:53.800+0000)

HIs data spiked super low this patch because there was a ghoul bug which hit him to the tune of around 5-8%. The fix was micropatched out yesterday so he should be returning to his former ~52% shortly

Is the balance team considering reverting the ghoul nerfs? They feel pretty useless for the amount of setup they require.

CHEWYARMSOct 27, 20182 votes

And considerating that his only other damaging ability is his Q/ his ult having one if the highest CDs in the game you would think the ghouls should be rather strong.

Hemulen MagiOct 26, 201811 votes

Hey, man.
I would appreciate if we could discuss something. I have been trying to provide certain feedback since the Yorick rework and have had several moderately popular threads regarding my feedback, but I have never been able to get a Rioter to engage with me about it.

I used to be a dedicated Yorick main before his rework, and he even still remains my highest mastery champion even though I dropped him after his rework. I think his rework was well made, but it had the side effect of alienating me from the champion. The issue for me isn't that he changed too much overall in the rework or that he's too weak overall. I think reworked Yorick is/was objectively stronger, but he has lost essentially all of his role flexibility, which I doubt was an intention of the rework.

I personally played him mainly as a support and secondarily as a jungler prior to the rework. I think he could be tweaked relatively easily to regain some of his role flexibility and even have improved strategic decision-making as a top-laner without increasing his net power in top lane. Yorick has a very small playerbase and is at risk of falling to his pre-rework popularity rate if he is continually neglected. The statistics seem to show that his play rate tends to only rise in relation to his power budget, suggesting that he isn't sufficiently fulfilling to play for many people or he lacks wide appeal for other reasons.

By improving his off-role viability, you can broaden his appeal, allowing him to be appropriately balanced around 49-52% winrate without his popularity dwindling to <1%. I think that with minimal tweaks, you could keep his top-lane play rate near its current 0.7-1% while aiming to attract an additional 0.3% jungle Yorick playerbase and 0.2% support Yorick playerbase, giving him a healthy and completely reasonable total presence of 1.2-1.5% pick rate. If this were successful, it would even likely be possible to slightly tune down his power in top lane (let's say 49-51% win rate) without his top lane playerbase declining since having role flexibility makes a champion more desirable to main in total and more total Yorick mains translates into a more stable top lane presence without requiring overtuning.

I can offer insight into what made his support and jungle off-roles attractive before the rework and what specifically changed that makes them feel less playable. I have specific ideas on how he can be tweaked. We can chat on the boards or privately somewhere else such as in the game client. We can keep our discussion between us in case you are concerned about something being taken as committal that Riot will actually implement any changes.

Electro522Oct 27, 20182 votes

I certainly didn't know you could play him in the jungle or support pre-rework.....and being an ADC main that was once a top main and had to fight against pre-rework Yorick several times......I dread to think of how that lane would have played out.

But as of now, I can certainly see some appeal for pulling him those other roles. However...

In the jungle, if they do give him tools to survive it, he may become as oppressive as like season 4-5 Elise, where he can stay so healthy in the jungle, that any time he invades, he would be unmatched. It would also make his ganks super easy, and without much risk involved, which is essential to having a balanced jungler. So, I doubt we'll see him in the jungle due to how much of a potential problem he could be.

As for support.....I don't see why you can't play him support right now. If you're pretty good at landing his W and E, you could likely play him like a tanky Zyra. Not to mention, since he is melee, his Q should work quite well with Relic Shield. Also, due to how his ult works, you can send it down a lane to help out another laner, or just slow push a lane that doesn't have anyone in it, and go back to being a front line for your team. He has enough utility in his kit that, honestly, I could see him as a support right now. He'd likely be really weak to poke supports, like Brand or Zyra, but against the current hard engage, tanky supports we're constantly seeing right now, he'd pair up against them quite nicely.

Just my 2 cents.

6SfoolOct 27, 20181 votes

Jungle Yorick is pretty viable. He's my main and that's the only role I play him in. He has the damage and the sustain to clear quickly and without pots, and has unique cc that really punishes immobile champs. His only issue is his setup. Without ghouls his clear speed is way slower, and he can't just walk through lanes without paying attention to where the minion wave is. Plus if he misses E his gank is almost guaranteed to fail. He doesn't need any more tools for jungle at least (besides some bugfixing), my issue is that his power is concentrated in his tower damage, so everything else has to be unreliable.

Necro Warrior87Oct 27, 20181 votes

I used to main him in the Jungle, you barely took damage because of the ghoul spam + blue buff

Hemulen MagiOct 28, 20181 votes

He was a strong enough jungler that some pro players used him in the jungle. Here is a game with C9 Meteos playing in the jungle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJghqBuQfkM

His support was much rarer and more off-meta but it still worked surprisingly well. Compared to the pre-rework Yorick, his supportive options are extremely lacking. The rework has introduced all of these cons:

He no longer has on-demand ghouls (w) to reactively block skill shots. This was a big part of the learning curve of support Yorick. It made a good support Yorick a strong counter to Blitzcrank, Thresh, and Morgana by blocking their hooks/bindings.
His ranged harass potential is much weaker.
His ultimate does not offer anywhere near equivalent supportive utility to the pre-rework version. Before the rework, it worked as a pseudo-Zilean-ult that also amplified a carry's strength because the revenant scaled with whoever it was cast on. This ability was a perfect fit on a support and had a lot of different ways in which it could be used.
His sustain in bot lane is much less reliable and weaker unless if he constantly pushes the lane by frequently casting Q on minions. Even disregarding the negative repercussions of being forced to push his lane, it is often too risky for Yorick to expose himself by going into melee range of minions in a duo lane and this is usually all the more true against the kinds of poke lanes where he really needs sustain options. His Q is balanced around being a spammable last-hitting tool designed with only top lane in mind. Previously, he could cast his E on an enemy champion to poke and sustain without disrupting the wave flow. He went from being quite good vs poke lanes to being bad against poke.
He can hardly use his ghouls at all as a support because they've been pretty strictly gated behind last-hitting and relic shield alone doesn't allow him to last-hit often enough for his kit to function well in laning. Also his ghouls don't often offer a great deal of value in bot lane since they will often just disrupt your carry's ability to control the waves which will tilt them.
He can no longer brush check with his (w) ghouls and provide continuous vision on targets with his ghouls.
He can no longer clear traps with his (w) ghouls on-demand.

While the only really benefit to Yorick's supporting that I see coming from the rework is:

His W is more useful against certain matchups, mainly for caging Leona when she dives in. It also tends to be slightly better than his old W for peeling ganks and punishing tower dives, but it really depends on whether the enemy has the ability to dash out of the cage or has mobility to evade it before it closes.

Beast BrawlerOct 27, 20182 votes

Come on dude, don't just ignore Hemulen Magi like this. Even telling him you can't say anything is better than nothing.

AirKingNeoOct 27, 20182 votes

and you also nerfed him when he wasn't a strong champion.

You nerfed a weak champion.

AhrisOct 27, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qxAOq2m8,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-10-26T17:07:53.800+0000)

HIs data spiked super low this patch because there was a ghoul bug which hit him to the tune of around 5-8%. The fix was micropatched out yesterday so he should be returning to his former ~52% shortly

DELETED

Nvm you wont answer anyway

Xenos von FaneliOct 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot MapleNectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qxAOq2m8,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-10-26T17:07:53.800+0000)

HIs data spiked super low this patch because there was a ghoul bug which hit him to the tune of around 5-8%. The fix was micropatched out yesterday so he should be returning to his former ~52% shortly

I don't care about data spikes or any of that, just hijacking this to say seriously, when the hell are you all reworking Tyrndamere. I don't need to talk about winrate or any of that, I just had a Tryndamere go from losing lane after being camped, to diving me under tower repeatedly because he does so much auto damage and is next to impossible to run away from AND can go invincible for 5 seconds if he needs to (which he usually doesn't). The man was diving nexus turrets at 24 mins WITHOUT ULT. This champ is just unbalanced, there is little effective counterplay for most champs short of running away as he takes your towers. I swear when is he getting a rework, this is some season one levels of unbalanced, which btw he hasn't really changed all that much since then, other than some stat changes and cds.

y0r1ckOct 26, 20185 votes

Chill bro it's only been one day. At least give it a week before you make those claims.

ValiantKillerOct 26, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Chill bro it's only been one day. At least give it a week before you make those claims.

Like giving irelia a week till that stupid nerf they give her that made no difference ? we all know it won't happen.

Doge2020Oct 26, 20182 votes

I saw a graph somewhere that showed the Graves 3AD nerf. After that patch his win rate dropped pretty hard for a small nerf. I would just say ride it out and see what happens.

And still ban Irelia in your games of course lol

ValiantKillerOct 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I saw a graph somewhere that showed the Graves 3AD nerf. After that patch his win rate dropped pretty hard for a small nerf. I would just say ride it out and see what happens.

And still ban Irelia in your games of course lol

Well it seem like there was a bug for yorick ghouls that came with 8.21 patch, see riot comment in the post. And i dont' banned irelia cause i mostly play urgot so yah xD

Doge2020Oct 26, 20181 votes

Yeah sorry, I should have clarified. I was talking about the “hidden” impact of a small nerf. I was comparing the “small” graves nerf of 3AD to the Irelia nerf that we just got.

And yes I did read the rioter’s comment lol.

ValiantKillerOct 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yeah sorry, I should have clarified. I was talking about the “hidden” impact of a small nerf. I was comparing the “small” graves nerf of 3AD to the Irelia nerf that we just got.

And yes I did read the rioter’s comment lol.

But yah that is his attack damage and not his movement speed, they nerfed speed for irelia not her stupid w or her stupid passive + q damage.

ZerenzaOct 27, 20181 votes

Last year they nerfed lee sin's movement speed, his winrate dropped by 6% from 52%. Movement speed is huge, though for Irelia i think i would have prefered a 3 base AD nerf over a base MS nerf because it hurts her Trinity Force build as well. Though she will probably need more nerfs, it's very important to give base stat nerfs a week or two to settle in.

ValiantKillerOct 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Last year they nerfed lee sin's movement speed, his winrate dropped by 6% from 52%. Movement speed is huge, though for Irelia i think i would have prefered a 3 base AD nerf over a base MS nerf because it hurts her Trinity Force build as well. Though she will probably need more nerfs, it's very important to give base stat nerfs a week or two to settle in.

But lee sin ability to move around gated with his CDR while irelia is gated with there minions or not not to mention lee isn't a power house killing machine like irelia right now. Yes she need more nerfs that focus on her kit and base damage.

DeathBurstOct 26, 20184 votes

Small nitpicking, not really relevant to your main point, but...

Garen maxes Q in 80% of match-ups, so the nerf he got is most impactful around level 7-11. Not really late game.

ValiantKillerOct 26, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Small nitpicking, not really relevant to your main point, but...

Garen maxes Q in 80% of match-ups, so the nerf he got is most impactful around level 7-11. Not really late game.

Well you get my point it doesn't hit his core kite which his R or Passive while on other hand yorick got hit hard with his core which his passive.

Jerry SeinfeIdOct 26, 20185 votes

What? How is garen q not his core kit?

ValiantKillerOct 26, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qxAOq2m8,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-10-26T17:17:47.532+0000)

What? How is garen q not his core kit?

Cause passive and his R are his core, his Q damage just like yorick Q damage just an AA reset that give extra damage + effect.

Jerry SeinfeIdOct 26, 20184 votes

His passive is overrated as hell. Don't get me wrong, I love it and would hate to see it go, but it really isn't that big of a deal.

His R is an execute, he's not gonna kill you with just his R.

You go q e r to kill someone. Your q is a slow cleanse, Ms boost, damage steroid and a silence. There's no way in hell his passive is more impactfully than his q.

ValiantKillerOct 26, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qxAOq2m8,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-26T17:34:05.876+0000)

His passive is overrated as hell. Don't get me wrong, I love it and would hate to see it go, but it really isn't that big of a deal.

His R is an execute, he's not gonna kill you with just his R.

You go q e r to kill someone. Your q is a slow cleanse, Ms boost, damage steroid and a silence. There's no way in hell his passive is more impactfully than his q.

You kinda forgot that his R give him passive as well that make him put true damage on his villain target.

Jerry SeinfeIdOct 27, 20181 votes

that changes absolutely nothing.

His R is by all means his most powerfull ability, but his Q is used in almost everything he does, even just running at someone to r would most likely involve his Q.

PB4UAMEOct 26, 20182 votes

Q is his bread and butter skill, his main burst and trade tool, his escape and slow cleanse, his only way in or out, his only CC, the start to his combos, his trigger for Grasps, he uses it to proc tri/sheen, its his only auto attack reset, its crucial for CSing (especially under tower and at low level) work on towers to help his pushing, etc

Its literally his most important skill, and he relies on it more than literally any other skill.

ValiantKillerOct 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Q is his bread and butter skill, his main burst and trade tool, his escape and slow cleanse, his only way in or out, his only CC, the start to his combos, his trigger for Grasps, he uses it to proc tri/sheen, its his only auto attack reset, its crucial for CSing (especially under tower and at low level) work on towers to help his pushing, etc

Its literally his most important skill, and he relies on it more than literally any other skill.

Ymmm sames goes for every champion with AA reset, Darius Illaoi MonkeyKing Yorick all of them got AA Reset and only one with special effect yet it not the core of their kit.

HungryAngry2SPPOct 26, 20181 votes

Zed "Ignorance is fatal"

ŚhunpoOct 27, 20182 votes

Shut up Zed, you're Riot's assassin lovechild >:(

HungryAngry2SPPOct 27, 20181 votes

Zed [Goes back into the darkness] "sigh"

Poop JohnsonOct 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Ymmm sames goes for every champion with AA reset, all of them got AA Reset and only one with special effect yet it not the core of their kit.

It's not just a reset though it's a slow cleanse, a speed boost, and a silence. I don't actually think I've seen a Garen use it as a AA reset unless the person he's fighting is doing something really wrong.

Also how are you gonna add Illaoi to that list, her passive is worthless without out it.

Also Nasus

ValiantKillerOct 26, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Brumbo Tungus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qxAOq2m8,comment-id=0003000000000000000100000001,timestamp=2018-10-26T20:53:08.430+0000)

It's not just a reset though it's a slow cleanse, a speed boost, and a silence. I don't actually think I've seen a Garen use it as a AA reset unless the person he's fighting is doing something really wrong.

Also how are you gonna add to that list, her passive is worthless without out it.

Also

Wukong Q give him armor pen and range, Yorick Q give him damage and graves , Daruis W give him the slow and Nasus Q give him the stacks. When i talk about a core kit i talk about the effectiveness of the kit it self as in ghouls for yorick, garen true damage and healing ,illaoi tentacles i talking about the effect more than damage.

So when they nerfed garen they nerf his Q damage not it effect not it CDR while on other hand they hit yorick the core it self.

Tell me something what made wukong goes down to ground all of sudden ? cause the q damage nerf ? Nah cause the whole kit got nerfed because of items and runes which was the main reason he was very strong in this meta before the hard nerf to assassin builds.

Biggest MO3 FanOct 27, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Well you get my point it doesn't hit his core kite which his R or Passive while on other hand yorick got hit hard with his core which his passive.

M7 garen , homie got me s1 and got to to gold with jax. Now , Garens Q IS DEFINITELY PART O HIS CORE KIT. How you use your Q or ON WHO you use your q on matters so much on this champ. Due to the fact garen doesnt really have a trading combo... its just silence>spin , and run away while using W so you dont take dmg in return. Plus garen's Q counts as an auto , and if you add grasp, it hurts a lot. The champion is simple and has simple abilities , SO EVERY ABILITY IS PART OF HIS CORE KIT (maybe not W tho lul).

DeusVultOct 26, 20184 votes

The reason that Orrn has a very low WR in SQ but sees a ton of worlds play is because Orrn is a safe tank that brings guaranteed engage, while the picks that beat him are generally riskier picks. So What makes him great in high level team play means nothing in SQ where the enemy player counter-picks you and even if you go even in lane, your team doesn't follow up on your engages.

Iota ThetaOct 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The reason that Orrn has a very low WR in SQ but sees a ton of worlds play is because Orrn is a safe tank that brings guaranteed engage, while the picks that beat him are generally riskier picks. So What makes him great in high level team play means nothing in SQ where the enemy player counter-picks you and even if you go even in lane, your team doesn't follow up on your engages.

Pretty much this. Often What makes a tank strong and playable in pros with coordinated teams doesn’t translate well into solo.

saltranOct 26, 20182 votes

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Yorick/

saltranOct 26, 20183 votes

Show me your source, not the screenshot because I cant see which website you used and for which elo these stats are.

maxotyiOct 26, 20182 votes

That's op.gg my dude how do you not know that

ValiantKillerOct 26, 20182 votes

{quoted}

That's op.gg my dude how do you not know that

Cause it not white background...wait xD

I lit your babyOct 26, 20181 votes

Banned for lacism

Kappa

Moody POct 26, 20183 votes

your source agrees with him, look at the daily numbers, his w/r tanks hard for some reason right after current patch hits

I'm assuming it has to be something bugged because it's a mystery he'd drop 4 whole points overnight

ValiantKillerOct 26, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qxAOq2m8,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-10-26T13:59:56.664+0000)

your source agrees with him, look at the daily numbers, his w/r tanks hard for some reason right after current patch hits

I'm assuming it has to be something bugged because it's a mystery he'd drop 4 whole points overnight

^ i don't get the point of this link xD

Madsin25Oct 26, 20183 votes

The link shows you he has a 51% WR.

He dipped down to 46% for 1 day and went back up to 50%.

AlzonOct 26, 20182 votes

I agree - Yorick needs 7.5% bonus attack speed at level 1 😂👌

ValiantKillerOct 26, 20187 votes

{quoted}

I agree - Yorick needs 7.5% bonus attack speed at level 1 😂👌

Irelia get nerf with stupid -5 speed movement that make no difference while yorick get his core nerfed to ground.

NevrankroatonOct 26, 20183 votes

While IRelia will certainly need more nerf, 5MS is not something small... I know the board like HUGE numbers but it isn't a small nerf. It is just that Irelia has other issue that need more than reducing her MS.