A thought: What if the Middle were the Average

RookPusher··2 votes·702 views

Reports very, but it's safe to say the majority of the player base sits somewhere around Bronze 1/Silver 5. Give or take a tier or two and I think that's reasonably accurate.

I'm no stats wizard but that seems odd to me. Why would the bottom be the biggest? Shouldn't it be a bell curve? For the sake of argument, let's just say that it shouldn't, and the existing system is at least distribution wise where things should land. We also seem to be in some agreement that quality of matchmaking was sacrificed for queue speed increases. I'm not inherently opposed to that, but the way LP gains are situated, it doesn't seem like it makes for an accurate assessment of who should climb and when.

Based on all of the arguments I'm making above, what if the system were changed to the following:

  • Gold 3 is now considered the average, and players are slanted toward it.
  • Any player below Gold 3 will inherently gain more LP for wins than they lose for losses.
  • Any player above Gold 3 will inherently lose more LP for losses than they gain for wins.

In this system, MMR would still attempt to match you with like-players but, considering we acknowledge that this is a (currently) flawed system, the LP adjustment would allow for those less quality pairings to be mitigated with standardized LP losses/gains.

In short, what I'm imaging this system would do is value wins and losses more accurately, given that match-ups are operating on large and inconsistent disparities from one game to the next. I don't know that I'm perfectly correct, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

It should go without saying that things like Victorious skins would need to be retooled for, say, Diamond or something. But that's a conversation for another thread.

18 Comments

Frosted Tips1 votes

Bringing everyone to the middle will make much worse game to game interaction.

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

Bringing everyone to the middle will make much worse game to game interaction.

Hmm. How do you mean? I'm honestly trying to understand what makes the current system tick.

Frosted Tips1 votes

So lucky and unlucky streaks will drastically change your rank meaning that a challenger player losing like 3 or 4 games in a row is now gonna be facing like a Diamond 1 or 2 player and will destroy them. This is just what would end up happening.

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

So lucky and unlucky streaks will drastically change your rank meaning that a challenger player losing like 3 or 4 games in a row is now gonna be facing like a Diamond 1 or 2 player and will destroy them. This is just what would end up happening.

Ok, that's fair. But wouldn't you say that we have a similar system happening now? If you're accidentally landing above or below your class, isn't there an artificial stasis occurring by the talent level you're surrounded by?

BurakkuRozu92 votes

If you are landing above your class, you will get dragged down through your own game play. If you are below, you will climb up. That's how it works.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Couldn't have said it better myself.

BurakkuRozu91 votes

Why in the f*** would it be a bell curve? The average we use is literally the mean of players. There are more players around silver rank. Just like how wealth is distributed, it's skewed right. Also that's not how lp works.

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

Why in the f*** would it be a bell curve? The average we use is literally the mean of players. There are more players around silver rank. Just like how wealth is distributed, it's skewed right. Also that's not how lp works.

A lot of your statements were too vague and non-descript for me to know either what you were saying or where you were applying it. But your capitalism analogy...

Capitalism isn't a good indicator as many additional factors account for how wealth is accumulated. I mean, do you honestly believe the rich all worked their balls off to get there? These days most wealth is earned through rent seeking.

BurakkuRozu91 votes

First off, if you have no ideal what I'm saying, that tells me you know almost nothing about stat, let alone how a bell curve works. Your interpretation of the analogy is also wrong. The average wealth class is middle class, with a skew right due to the 1% holding millions/millions. It's not a good indicator of what? The fact that the game is not a bell curve? because that's completely wrong. The statements aren't vague in the slightest. You just don't have a clue about anything covering the topic you are presenting.

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

First off, if you have no ideal what I'm saying, that tells me you know almost nothing about stat, let alone how a bell curve works. Your interpretation of the analogy is also wrong. The average wealth class is middle class, with a skew right due to the 1% holding millions/millions. It's not a good indicator of what? The fact that the game is not a bell curve? because that's completely wrong. The statements aren't vague in the slightest. You just don't have a clue about anything covering the topic you are presenting.

My understanding of stats can't be ascertained until you have more proficiency with English. Honest to god I have no idea what half of this says.

BurakkuRozu91 votes

Your understanding of stat doesn't even exist. There's no way you could understand it because you don't understand statistics. Case closed.

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

Your understanding of stat doesn't even exist. There's no way you could understand it because you don't understand statistics. Case closed.

Cool. Have fun out there.

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

It is a bell curve. It’s just the bell part is closer to the left hand side.

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

It is a bell curve. It’s just the bell part is closer to the left hand side.

Thanks. I don't know why the penguin had to be so hostile when he said this. I appreciate that.

Do you think this left-leaning curve is fair? I'm curious.

BurakkuRozu91 votes

Bell shape =/= bell curve. Bell curve means an even distribution, 50/50 on the playerbase mmr. It's a distribution that is skewed right, where the majority of players are on the left side, while the minority( higher elo) are on the right.

DearPear1 votes

{quoted}

It is a bell curve. It’s just the bell part is closer to the left hand side.

that's not even true if you just consider MMR!

{quoted}

Based on all of the arguments I'm making above, what if the system were changed to the following:

Gold 3 is now considered the average, and players are slanted toward it. Any player below Gold 3 will inherently gain more LP for wins than they lose for losses. Any player above Gold 3 will inherently lose more LP for losses than they gain for wins.

The players' ranks already follow a normal distribution. Your change would amplify that phenomenon. That would be really unhealthy to the game.

lightwolf10301 votes

If that was the case, climbing to challenger would be impossible. If i win agaisnt you once and you win against me once on master level, based on your logic, we’d both be down in lp, that means if you’re somehow master, a 50% win rate is bad, which is not true

Thats means, low elo will climb out easier and high elo will derank faster, everyone will be gold 3 at the end of the season lol, there’s going to be challengers against bronze. This is absolutely not a good idea.

RookPusher1 votes

{quoted}

If that was the case, climbing to challenger would be impossible. If i win agaisnt you once and you win against me once on master level, based on your logic, we’d both be down in lp, that means if you’re somehow master, a 50% win rate is bad, which is not true

Thats means, low elo will climb out easier and high elo will derank faster, everyone will be gold 3 at the end of the season lol, there’s going to be challengers against bronze. This is absolutely not a good idea.

Yeah, I suppose that's fair. Alright well it was a concept I was trying out.

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