Why is Poppy getting nerfed while Jayce isn't?

FalconPawwwwnch·Dec 6, 2016·172 votes·7,670 views

This is a joke right?

At least you can lane vs poppy and farm it out

Jayce just bullies and kills you over and over

219 Comments

Swiftstrike4Dec 6, 201634 votes

Armor pen changes indirectly nerfed Jayce. His win rate has fallen.

HateDaddyDec 6, 201638 votes

{quoted}

Armor pen changes indirectly nerfed Jayce. His win rate has fallen.

His lane phase is still way too oppressive

ApocalypsicDec 7, 201616 votes

It's supposed to be

HateDaddyDec 7, 201614 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Wonderful Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qnPrUnRM,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-07T01:12:03.031+0000)

It's supposed to be

Sure, he's supposed to be a lane bully and I'm fine with that. But there's a certain point where a champions lane power becomes unreasonable, regardless of intent.

Troll for TrumpDec 7, 201628 votes

No, people just keep playing champs that are weak early and expect to not get bullied. That's the point. Riot has already toned down bullying by a significant amount.

dunder killDec 7, 201622 votes

But Jayce doesnt fall off. He's oppressive early and still strong mid and late. There is no weak point.

OelykDec 7, 201614 votes

Jayce wont fall off if he can get ahead and keep a lead... just like any other champion.

Its not the end all, be all jayce will always be strong every point in the game.

dunder killDec 7, 20164 votes

All he has to do is farm to stay relevant. Considering the ease at which he farms, it isnt much of a problem

OelykDec 7, 20167 votes

Looks at the midlaner that combos every wave and the adc who farms all game botlane....(kappa)

MelledoneusDec 7, 201617 votes

I think the real problem is Jayce does too many things too well.

SpârkyDec 7, 20167 votes

I understand why people hate playing against jayce (as do I) but I think its not him that needs a nerf its other top laners that need a buff. Look at jayce before this season's worlds where he wasn't getting played much at all and all of a sudden he's overpowered without receiving a buff. I just think that other top laners need buffs so that they can deal with jayce because i feel jayce if he receives a nerf will just fall back to the bottom where he has been for so long.

UnderscorBunniesDec 7, 20165 votes

Without receiving a buff?

They changed a bunch of weird scalings in his kit that initially scaled with AP to AD scalings, making him hurt significantly more than he did ~6.16 (Idk exactly what patch the buffs were, just an estimation)

Supreme Senpai69Dec 7, 20162 votes

They buffed him to hell and back. They cut his mana costs on his E by like half and they changed a ratio from AP to AD and other buffs that I can't remember because I never play top lane. This was shortly before worlds.

LordGeovanniDec 8, 20162 votes

looks at jayce being top and not mid bothering them or bot bothering them

Off Meta EvanDec 7, 20161 votes

i think its an issue when he has a strong laning phase but also scales well into the late game.

Spaceman5pffDec 7, 20168 votes

He scales well with a lead.

When everybody is at 6 items, Jayce isn't much to get excited about unless the enemy team is ALL squishies.

Off Meta EvanDec 7, 20164 votes

in an all out team fight sure, but the issue is that jayce has AMAZING siege which fits into a lot of team comps since sieging is a really core part of the game. with mixed damage, high base stats and pretty decent utility with that speed up, he's a lane bully that isn't just pure cheese and single handly destroys most top laners.

FantasySniperDec 7, 20161 votes

The problem is that he can very easily obtain a lead with how strong his early game is.

Spaceman5pffDec 7, 20164 votes

WOW. It is almost like that is how early game champions work.

Draven LeeSin Nidalee Renekton

FantasySniperDec 7, 20162 votes

No, early game champions are supposed to be strong early and scale poorly.

Draven and Nidalee don't scale poorly, so they aren't "early game champions", they're just plain strong if they have a strong early game. Which is exactly what Jayce is right now.

SpârkyDec 7, 20162 votes

Why should "early game" champions have to have bad scaling? I don't consider jayce an early champion because if the jayce uses a couple of q's on the minions he runs oom and then you can go in on him. His base stats are good super early into the game but until he gets some ad they dont do incredibly much unless he uses all his mana doing a full combo. And the lethatlity really hurt his early dmg.

Off Meta EvanDec 7, 20161 votes

early game champions should have terrible scaling because they have a strong early games, giving up power in one part of the game to increase the power in another part of the game. thats pretty simple. Champions that don't have a weak point are just inherently toxic for the game. why would i objectively ever pick a champion with weak points and counter play when i could just pick one thats strong all the time? also its not the Q that makes jayce so insane its the fact that his ranged autos do so much ON TOP of him having strong melee damage. champions like Illaoi Darius Garen Nasus Trundle Chogath are pretty much just gonna get kited into nothing or if they actually DO catch him. get out traded and possibly die because they've been chunked from all the poke.

AtanchanDec 7, 20161 votes

Champions falling off a cliff late game is a concept that makes no sense when you think about it. Have anyone with a solid CC ability? Well, unless that ability is only solid at level 16, you've suddenly got a champion that is terrific at enabling kills early on and stays strong either as the game goes on because they can just decide that an enemy can't act for however much time. Which suddenly makes all early game damage dealers turn into spitwads late far, far worse, because why pick them when you pick someone that won't turn the game into a 5v4 or worse later on?

Being strong doesn't mean stronger. You pick a late game champion because they're stronger than early game champions late game, not because early game champions practically don't exist late game. Hell, I'd say having champions with weak late games are something that goes against Riot's current philosphy, since it feels terrible to not be able to do jackshit just because your team didn't win fast enough.

Off Meta EvanDec 7, 20161 votes

I play champions like Pantheon Renekton LeeSin and i know the feeling of dropping off. And let me say this. Early game champions DESERVE to become useless if they can't snowball. picking an early game champ is NOT supposed to be about helping your team and being a team player. It should be about trying to cheese the fuck out of the enemy laner and shit stomping on them so hard they can't do anything. you have 1 job and thats to dominate laning phase. if you fail to do so or if you wait way too long to end the game you fucked up and should lose because of it.

RaiyzaDec 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I play champions like and i know the feeling of dropping off. And let me say this. Early game champions DESERVE to become useless if they can't snowball. picking an early game champ is NOT supposed to be about helping your team and being a team player. It should be about trying to cheese the fuck out of the enemy laner and shit stomping on them so hard they can't do anything. you have 1 job and thats to dominate laning phase. if you fail to do so or if you wait way too long to end the game you fucked up and should lose because of it.

Just because you fall off doesnt mean you wont be useful late game.

Take Renekton. His damage falls off HARD. But, if you use your W to peel/delay the carry or whoever you need to during the fights, you can win. You don't deserve to lose because you got out laned.

AtanchanDec 8, 20162 votes

Yeah, that's what I immediately thought upon seeing those guys. All of those guys have strong ways to contribute late even when behind, especially Lee. Are there stronger? Sure, and sure, you'll definitely feel weaker as the game drags on as you lose the ability to chunk people and are just left with cooldowns, but these guys don't exactly drop off the face of the earth because they're very strong early. They're still far from useless, unless you're physically incapable of playing them as anything but melee carries.

TormentulaDec 6, 201616 votes

Jayce took a hit with the itemization changes (loss of youmuu's attack speed).

MarshbouyDec 6, 20167 votes

Don't forget those juicy armor pen changes.

Yordle HentaiDec 6, 20169 votes

And Poppy is strong in pro play, sadly :l

RalanrDec 6, 20166 votes

And Jayce wasn't in Worlds? Or Kennan?

HazyCloud7Dec 7, 20167 votes

We aren't on the worlds patch anymore. Armor pen was changed to lethality, courage of the colossus was added to the game and in Kennen's case protobelt was nerfed.

MarshbouyDec 6, 20167 votes

Because poppy is actually incredibly oppressive for any assassin, burst champion, or anyone trying to jump on a squishy and kill them. Even as someone who wants poppy buffed, this is undeniable.

go commit dieDec 7, 201627 votes

{quoted}

Because poppy is actually incredibly oppressive for any assassin, burst champion, or anyone trying to jump on a squishy and kill them. Even as someone who wants poppy buffed, this is undeniable.

So, just like every warden should be?

MarshbouyDec 7, 20165 votes

I forgot how most wardens have an insane knockback that literally kicks people a third of the way across the map or have an ability that stops all dashes

RalanrDec 7, 201617 votes

Doesn't mean Wardens aren't a nightmare for assassins.

WoonStruckDec 7, 20166 votes

Most Wardens don't also function as assassins, like Poppy. Full tank.

RalanrDec 7, 20169 votes

Everything squishy dies easy.

MarshbouyDec 7, 20162 votes

Clearly someone has not played poppy.

RalanrDec 7, 20169 votes

I'm mastery rank 6 dude.

MarshbouyDec 7, 20163 votes

Then you suck at playing poppy. She has vastly higher damage than the majority of other wardens and trades no CC, survivability, or bonus stats for it.

NuparuDec 7, 20166 votes

Who are the other Wardens?

All I know is that the only Warden that doesn't do that much damage is Braum, the rest do a fair bit of damage or have been nerfed significantly to the point where they don't do much other than CC.

MarshbouyDec 7, 20161 votes

Wardens

Braum Nunu Tahm Kench Maokai Shen Thresh Alistar Poppy Galio (hybrid Battle Mage)

All deal pretty shit damage except poppy, maokai, and of course, galio

five oh tree Dec 7, 201614 votes

I'd like to point out that tahm kench deals pretty decent damage, it's just all single target.

FantasySniperDec 7, 20167 votes

And Nunu with his ult.

And Shen with his passive.

And Alistar, who has both CC and damage on every one of his basic abilities.

TyrekGoldenspearDec 7, 20162 votes

One dash per cast.

No more.

LooknookDec 7, 20166 votes

I thought it was one dash per person per cast.

OelykDec 7, 20161 votes

She has a unique spell that blocks all jumps around her... she can just stand on most squishies and block everything. every other warden does not have a skill like that.

OneSmoothDudeDec 7, 20164 votes

Yea some champs have unique abilities.

Revolutionary.

SothaEleen4roDec 7, 20163 votes

because tanks are more cancerous than squishy carries, especially when they can 2 shot carries while they laugh at the 50 damage per AA and 100 damage spells enemy adcs/apcs do to her.