Ryze: 49% win rate in your BEST match-up is not fair

The Ecdysiast··10 votes·4,061 views

The Problem I realized this when searching for numbers in response to a thread about a Yasuo beating a Ryze. Of course, it's expected that Yasuo would be fairly strong in that match-up. After all, his shield will block the initial damage from Essence Flux and his Wind Wall can block Ryze's entire combo. So when I saw that Yasuo has a 58% win rate against him, I thought, "well that's a little high, but to be expected of a hard counter."

Yeah, on Yasuo's page Ryze is among his top 3 best matchups. . . But on Ryze's page, there are FIFTEEN champions who perform better against him than Yasuo. The strongest of which is Renekton, who has an absolutely insane 62% win rate against him.

Worse than that though, is the fact Ryze has precisely

ZERO

champions he counters.

His best non-troll match-up is against Nocturne, and even in that match-up he only has a 49% win rate. His best match-up against an actual mid-laner is Syndra, with only 48%. He actually loses more often than he wins against champions he performs best against.

And his pick rate is so low that it can't be blamed on his skillcap, since there isn't a large number of unskilled/inexperienced players picking him.

Let that sink in.

######Note, I say non-troll because there's apparently a trend of people taking Kalista mid and getting absolutely stomped, and it's so poorly thought out that even the worst champion in the game in his intended role is beating it. All data is from his page on op.gg.


Why it's been allowed to persist Of course, the explanation for this disparity is that he has bar-none the strongest team-oriented ultimate ability in the game. And it's effectively impossible to fix without being removed.

Yes, we've seen a promising trend in recent patches with Riot shifting power from the abilities that make certain champions overpowered in professional play to other parts of their kit so the rest of us can use them. Galio, Kalista, Sejuani, and Ornn all received such changes within the past three patches. But there's a problem:

They've already nerfed any part of Ryze's ultimate that could be abused beyond its normal function. Mainly that it no longer works with Zhonya's or Stopwatch. They could remove its ability to move minions, but that aspect is so rarely used even in pro play that it wouldn't make a difference. Where they were able to remove the ally defensive buff from Galio's R and the shield from Ornn's W, there simply isn't anything about Ryze's ultimate they could remove any more.


Conclusion, and my suggestion for a solution It may have become a running joke that Ryze gets yearly reworks, but the only way they can fix his ultimate is to do a mini-rework where they replace it. The rest of his abilities are fine, as he's very mana-hungry and so doesn't scale up until he has Seraph's Embrace finished. But the ultimate can only be replaced.

What I suggest is a modern take on his original ultimate, using his new mechanics instead of the now-outdated Spellvamp:

R - Runic Power [Edited] For 6/8 seconds, Ryze gains 10%/20% CDR. During this time, Overload will not consume a rune if he has only one charged, and his shield and movement speed from consuming two runes with Overload are 20% stronger.

Increasing his shield and MS for the duration mimics the spellvamp and MS boost he used to have, but with a condition added. I don't think there's need to add an AoE aspect to the abilities since he's not single-target like before. The CDR would grant him more AoE damage through Spell Flux.

And I think this would be a reasonable solution, as it doesn't require adding any mechanics that don't already exist within his kit. It would only require toying with the numbers.


Edit: My proposal for an ultimate change is just what I think would fit his old thematic while modernizing it. It may be more sensible to give him a completely new ultimate, as long as it's one that is not so oriented towards professional play.

And again, his pick rate is not so high as to support the claim that it's just bad players dragging it down. If so, then we'd see him performing incredibly well at high-level play. But the problem is he is not a combo champion like others are. He has several well-defined combos that are even made obvious in his ability details. And because the reward for one is a shield and MS, not mobility like many other combo champs, his difficulty and versatility are drastically lower compared to them.

Whereas Zed is picked in high-level even when he's only good in the hands of a mechanically skilled player, Ryze is not. His "combos" are very easy to both learn and master. It's his ultimate that makes him overpowered in the hands of a coordinated team, not his combos that make him overpowered in the hands of a skilled player. In that sense, he's much more like Twisted Fate, Tahm Kench, Shen or Pantheon with their near-global movement being a massive asset to a team. But exacerbated by the fact his ability can bring up to and including the entire team where they want to go.

37 Comments

ModAyuki4 votes

I could be wrong in saying this, but I do recall hearing from somewhere that it was already mentioned he is being reworked... again. But as your detailed post states, it’s kind of their only option. Hopefully they are able to put him in a good spot once and for all.

Edit: Upon further searching, I couldn’t seem to find the sources of such claims and thus they are likely just word-of-mouth rumors I encountered.

Death by Glamour4 votes

I may be wrong here but others have said that riot are leaving him as is because they have spent enough time on him

ModAyuki1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qgv1ZN6e,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-01-24T08:54:00.849+0000)

I may be wrong here but others have said that riot are leaving him as is because they have spent enough time on him

I don’t have any sources, so I can’t really back up my point; If such is the case though, that would be kind of disappointing to see a champion stay in his position.

Death by Glamour2 votes

The champ itself is fine, his kit works. The problems are that lcs has ruined him, he cant easily abuse deathcap and void staff as early as other mages and he takes so long to come online to other mages.

ModAyuki1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qgv1ZN6e,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-24T09:10:05.299+0000)

The champ itself is fine, his kit works. The problems are that lcs has ruined him, he cant easily abuse deathcap and void staff as early as other mages and he takes so long to come online to other mages.

I want to follow up a bit more regarding what I said previously, as it feels poor for me to leave a claim like such unaddressed;

I did a bit of googling, and it turns out what I heard was likely one of my friends who said they heard he was being reworked again and I believed them. I couldn’t exactly find anywhere mentioning a Ryze rework, so I doubt that it would be occurring (especially since I do think there would be a bit of discussion surrounding it). That being said, this does seem quite logical, as Riot has reworked him far too many times already and needs to stop devoting resources to him, in my general opinion.

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

The champion is NOT fine, that's why he is kept weak. He ruins every game when he is good and played by players with two hands.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Holy hell, no, please.

They already put so many resources in that champion, just let it sit in that state for a while and focus on other stuff. Yorick got to sit years in a terrible state, yet they didn't care. Ryze does not need another rework now.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Holy hell, no, please.

They already put so many resources in that champion, just let it sit in that state for a while and focus on other stuff. Yorick got to sit years in a terrible state, yet they didn't care. Ryze does not need another rework now.

Yorick was not one of the original champions, though. Nor did he have anything that made him game-breaking in the hands of professionals to the point that they consider it perfectly fine for it to be almost as bad as trolling to pick him at any other skill level.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Still, I even lost track how many reworks he already received. He is at .... 6 or something like that?

They invested tons of time in that champion, they don't have to devote all their resources to Ryze. There are other champions in the game in need of attention and at some point they can really say "yeah, he didn't work out, let him be like that and let's focus on other stuff first".

And even if he is one of the original champions... that argument would be valid if they didn't try to change him in the past. They tried so many times that it even became a meme. Just let him rest.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Still, I even lost track how many reworks he already received. He is at .... 6 or something like that?

They invested tons of time in that champion, they don't have to devote all their resources to Ryze. There are other champions in the game in need of attention and at some point they can really say "yeah, he didn't work out, let him be like that and let's focus on other stuff first".

And even if he is one of the original champions... that argument would be valid if they didn't try to change him in the past. They tried so many times that it even became a meme. Just let him rest.

Try 3. And there shouldn't be even a single champion like this. It'd be one thing if it were like old Yorick, where only hard mains play him. But that's not the case. People clearly want to play Ryze, but his ult's strength in the top <1% stops them from performing well.

Saying they shouldn't invest time into him because he still needs to be fixed is as bad an argument as saying they shouldn't waste their money on a balance team because there have been balance issues in the past.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Not really. Because there are still several champions to work on. I didn't say they should stop reworking completely. I said they should stop to rework Ryze for now. And I really hope Riot does this. They should try to distribute their resources over many projects, not pumping absolutely everything they have to fix 1 champion they simply can't get right.

It feels unfair for the other players if Ryze gets so many reworks before some champions even get a single one. Let others have their turn, please, asking for another Ryze rework is extremely selfish in my eyes.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Not really. Because there are still several champions to work on. I didn't say they should stop reworking completely. I said they should stop to rework Ryze for now. And I really hope Riot does this. They should try to distribute their resources over many projects, not pumping absolutely everything they have to fix 1 champion they simply can't get right.

It feels unfair for the other players if Ryze gets so many reworks before some champions even get a single one. Let others have their turn, please, asking for another Ryze rework is extremely selfish in my eyes.

Whether or not other champions need work means nothing. The point is, there is a champion that needs a rework more than any other. It doesn't matter whether or not he's had one before.

Just because two solutions weren't successful doesn't mean one shouldn't be sought.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

We have to agree to disagree here. In my eyes, it does matter. I understand that you like this champion and want to see it fixed, but it's still extremely selfish in my opinion to demand a new rework now. Other champions have playerbases, too, and were waiting for years to get a rework wich didn't happen yet.

Ryze got 3 reworks. They didn't work out, that's unfortunate, but can't be helped. Sometimes, if you simply can't get something right, it is better to leave it be for a while and return to it later to try again.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

We have to agree to disagree here. In my eyes, it does matter. I understand that you like this champion and want to see it fixed, but it's still extremely selfish in my opinion to demand a new rework now. Other champions have playerbases, too, and were waiting for years to get a rework wich didn't happen yet.

Ryze got 3 reworks. They didn't work out, that's unfortunate, but can't be helped. Sometimes, if you simply can't get something right, it is better to leave it be for a while and return to it later to try again.

What I like is game balance. You're the one using a dislike of the champion to blind yourself from balance. Demanding that the game remain in such a state where even one champion has such a huge disparity in performance because of one ability that could be easily changed is unreasonable.

They did leave it this way for a while. It's been two years. So that excuse isn't applicable.

T2K Baka1 votes

{quoted}

I could be wrong in saying this, but I do recall hearing from somewhere that it was already mentioned he is being reworked... again. But as your detailed post states, it’s kind of their only option. Hopefully they are able to put him in a good spot once and for all.

Edit: Upon further searching, I couldn’t seem to find the sources of such claims and thus they are likely just word-of-mouth rumors I encountered.

I saw something like that too. They were gonna make his w cost no mana and give u % mana back and make it a slow instead of a root. When u used ur e it would then become a root. But that was on the wiki at one point and now its gone

Death by Glamour2 votes

Because such a buff wouldnt just break him him solo q let alone make him pick or ban in lc$.

And dont forget hes already oppressive enough to lane against in toplane.

The Ecdysiast3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death by Glamour,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qgv1ZN6e,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-24T08:45:25.255+0000)

Because such a buff wouldnt just break him him solo q let alone make him pick or ban in lc$.

And dont forget hes already oppressive enough to lane against in toplane.

It wouldn't. The reason he was pick/ban in LCS was because of his ultimate. As a result of the fact they can't take any more from it, they nerfed his base abilities to hell.

And no, he's not oppressive in top lane. His best win rates are against a support and a mid laner who sometimes go top, and even then he barely scrapes up a 52% win rate.

Meanwhile his performance against his worst top counter is even worse than against Renekton, losing a whopping 69% of the time against Wukong, while beating only 6 champions more often than 50% of the time, max being 52% as I previously stated.

To say he's oppressive top is just not true any more.

LTK KoRo2 votes

He's still oppressive top, just at the highest levels of play. Ryze top vs melees is a matchup where there's no threat on Ryze unless he's ganked, and he can bully melees. On toplane he's a bully which outscales 90% of toplaners (if not all of them), but he's much harder to utilize well than an average toplaner, that's why his winrate is terrible.

SpaghettiVase1 votes

{quoted}

It wouldn't. The reason he was pick/ban in LCS was because of his ultimate. As a result of the fact they can't take any more from it, they nerfed his base abilities to hell.

And no, he's not oppressive in top lane. His best win rates are against a support and a mid laner who sometimes go top, and even then he barely scrapes up a 52% win rate.

Meanwhile his performance against his worst top counter is even worse than against Renekton, losing a whopping 69% of the time against Wukong, while beating only 6 champions more often than 50% of the time, max being 52% as I previously stated.

To say he's oppressive top is just not true any more.

Except he's not picked for his ult anymore in pro. He's more picked for his late game power push, his play making capability is just an added bonus really but most teams don't get much use out if it as "the thing that won the fight."

saltran2 votes

I'm sorry but I've seen enough pro play the last years to never feel bad for soloQ Ryze players, if you want to play the strongest champs in coordinated play expect them to be bad on soloQ, same goes for Kalista or Azir players.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry but I've seen enough pro play the last years to never feel bad for soloQ Ryze players, if you want to play the strongest champs in coordinated play expect them to be bad on soloQ, same goes for Kalista or Azir players.

That's the point, dude. It's why I specifically mentioned Kalista, Galio, Ornn, and Sejuani who recently received powershifts that took away a large part of what made them oppressive in professional play.

They should not be champions left in such a state that only the top 1% of players can use them effectively while the other 99% are almost trolling to pick them.

Ryze is, like most champions in this game, not that difficult. To claim he has some insanely high skill cap is both misunderstanding what makes a champion difficult in this game and misunderstanding what makes a video game character difficult at all. Because this game is not one where the characters are designed particularly difficult.

Sky Red Tea2 votes

Winrates literally don't mean anything when it comes to balance. The fact is, Ryze is completely overpowered in his current state, regardless of how poorly solo Q players pilot him.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sky Red Tea,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qgv1ZN6e,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-01-24T12:51:04.789+0000)

Winrates literally don't mean anything when it comes to balance. The fact is, Ryze is completely overpowered in his current state, regardless of how poorly solo Q players pilot him.

Well, no, actually. That's not the fact. The fact is that his ultimate is completely overpowered. If what you said were true, then he'd still have the near 100% pick/ban rate and over 60% win rate in pros he had before the nerfs to his basic abilities. He doesn't.

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

His old E was AoE and also provided magic penetration. Upon activating his R, his E damage was reduced to 50% to non initially targeted units.

I think important statistics to look at in his counters is damage, CS, KP, KDA disparities between Ryze and X champion. In Syndra's case, she wins in nearly every single category. The only category Ryze wins in is first tower takedown but that is probably attributed to Ryze not being able to roam as much as Syndra and participate in kills during those roams (hence the low KDA).

Sire Hippington1 votes

That's because ryze has one of the steepest mastery curves, he's still pretty strong in the right hands, which is why he still is seen in pro every now and then, and it's why he can hardly be buffed for the average player without breaking him for toptier play(again) And that Runic Power would basically break him at all levels of play, Even without the extra cdr it would be a MASSIVE boost to his all in and teamfigth potential, alone the 'overload will not consume a rune if it only has one charge' part will break him, it's just so much more aoe and shields that he could gain from it.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qgv1ZN6e,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-01-24T09:49:01.704+0000)

That's because ryze has one of the steepest mastery curves, he's still pretty strong in the right hands, which is why he still is seen in pro every now and then, and it's why he can hardly be buffed for the average player without breaking him for toptier play(again) And that Runic Power would basically break him at all levels of play, Even without the extra cdr it would be a MASSIVE boost to his all in and teamfigth potential, alone the 'overload will not consume a rune if it only has one charge' part will break him, it's just so much more aoe and shields that he could gain from it.

As I pointed out, that excuse cannot be made with his current pick rate.

And while that is my suggestion for a new ultimate, you can suggest one yourself. My suggestion isn't the only possible solution, but it can't be argued that it is in fact his ultimate that needs to be changed.

Eons31 votes

{quoted}

The Problem I realized this when searching for numbers in response to a thread about a Yasuo beating a Ryze. Of course, it&#039;s expected that Yasuo would be fairly strong in that match-up. After all, his shield will block the initial damage from Essence Flux and his Wind Wall can block Ryze&#039;s entire combo. So when I saw that Yasuo has a 58% win rate against him, I thought, &quot;well that&#039;s a little high, but to be expected of a hard counter.&quot;

Yeah, on Yasuo&#039;s page Ryze is among his top 3 best matchups. . . But on Ryze&#039;s page, there are FIFTEEN champions who perform better against him than Yasuo. The strongest of which is Renekton, who has an absolutely insane 62% win rate against him.

Worse than that though, is the fact Ryze has precisely

ZERO

champions he counters.

His best non-troll match-up is against Nocturne, and even in that match-up he only has a 49% win rate. His best match-up against an actual mid-laner is Syndra, with only 48%. He actually loses more often than he wins against champions he performs best against.

And his pick rate is so low that it can't be blamed on his skillcap, since there isn't a large number of unskilled/inexperienced players picking him.

Let that sink in.

######Note, I say non-troll because there&#039;s apparently a trend of people taking Kalista mid and getting absolutely stomped, and it&#039;s so poorly thought out that even the worst champion in the game in his intended role is beating it. All data is from his page on op.gg.


Why it&#039;s been allowed to persist Of course, the explanation for this disparity is that he has bar-none the strongest team-oriented ultimate ability in the game. And it&#039;s effectively impossible to fix without being removed.

Yes, we&#039;ve seen a promising trend in recent patches with Riot shifting power from the abilities that make certain champions overpowered in professional play to other parts of their kit so the rest of us can use them. Galio, Kalista, Sejuani, and Ornn all received such changes within the past three patches. But there&#039;s a problem:

They&#039;ve already nerfed any part of Ryze&#039;s ultimate that could be abused beyond its normal function. Mainly that it no longer works with Zhonya&#039;s or Stopwatch. They could remove its ability to move minions, but that aspect is so rarely used even in pro play that it wouldn&#039;t make a difference. Where they were able to remove the ally defensive buff from Galio&#039;s R and the shield from Ornn&#039;s W, there simply isn&#039;t anything about Ryze&#039;s ultimate they could remove any more.


Conclusion, and my suggestion for a solution It may have become a running joke that Ryze gets yearly reworks, but the only way they can fix his ultimate is to do a mini-rework where they replace it. The rest of his abilities are fine, as he&#039;s very mana-hungry and so doesn&#039;t scale up until he has Seraph&#039;s Embrace finished. But the ultimate can only be replaced.

What I suggest is a modern take on his original ultimate, using his new mechanics instead of the now-outdated Spellvamp:

R - Runic Power For 6/10 seconds, Ryze gains 10%/30% CDR, breaking the CDR cap if applicable. During this time, Overload will not consume a rune if he has only one charged, and his shield and movement speed from consuming two runes with Overload are 50% stronger and last 1 second longer.

Increasing his shield and MS for the duration mimics the spellvamp and MS boost he used to have, but with a condition added. I don&#039;t think there&#039;s need to add an AoE aspect to the abilities since he&#039;s not single-target like before. The CDR would grant him more AoE damage through Spell Flux.

And I think this would be a reasonable solution, as it doesn&#039;t require adding any mechanics that don&#039;t already exist within his kit. It would only require toying with the numbers.

Its less that the ryze is losing lane/game. and more that he pushes R and the teammates screw it up for him. His ULTIMATE is the problem, not for the idea that it limits the rest of his kits power, but because it causes a 40min loss of baron because he pushed R and zhonyased, his Ashe and his Janna ran into the R, and his Galio Nunu ran outa the r. So now he just auto loses. If you look at whohe loses most to, its people that excel when enemies are dropped on them, that typically have 1. Problems with enemy jg ganks(Renekton shoves and is weak to jgs) ryze root in pro play garuntees renekton dies, in solo q, the jg never goes top or mid to begin with. 2. problems making it to late game champs like yasuo typically cant really get to their power spike before they are feeding in solo que, however, with a ryze, ryze cant punish yasuo hard enough early to stop this, and he practically hands yasuo his 2 item power spike(which his allies then hard feed yasuo). Ryze is weak becuaes he is an enabler and the best one in the game(point and click cc, mass aoe teleport that doesnt break channels Nunu Neeko and can pretty much roam at will. Think how many times on TF or ryze that youve ganked for bot lane and got no follow up. Then think how many times in pro play that alone woulda won the game from turret plating and double kill.

Eons31 votes

{quoted}

Its less that the ryze is losing lane/game. and more that he pushes R and the teammates screw it up for him. His ULTIMATE is the problem, not for the idea that it limits the rest of his kits power, but because it causes a 40min loss of baron because he pushed R and zhonyased, his Ashe and his Janna ran into the R, and his Galio Nunu ran outa the r. So now he just auto loses. If you look at whohe loses most to, its people that excel when enemies are dropped on them, that typically have 1. Problems with enemy jg ganks(Renekton shoves and is weak to jgs) ryze root in pro play garuntees renekton dies, in solo q, the jg never goes top or mid to begin with. 2. problems making it to late game champs like yasuo typically cant really get to their power spike before they are feeding in solo que, however, with a ryze, ryze cant punish yasuo hard enough early to stop this, and he practically hands yasuo his 2 item power spike(which his allies then hard feed yasuo). Ryze is weak becuaes he is an enabler and the best one in the game(point and click cc, mass aoe teleport that doesnt break channels Nunu Neeko and can pretty much roam at will. Think how many times on TF or ryze that youve ganked for bot lane and got no follow up. Then think how many times in pro play that alone woulda won the game from turret plating and double kill.

That R you suggested... seems.... the problem is they dont want spell vamp, and ryze being like that would mean his base kit would be weak to justify, and he would be broken in solo and pro play once again. Either he would be over powered during R and everyone would play ryze plus an enabler and just auto win all teamfights, or he would be so weak without his R that he just wouldnt be viable at all in either aspect. The numbers being buffed or lowered would result in him feeling like(in order to balance him) that he jsut doesnt have an R because the numbers would need to be so weak to prevent that feast with R or famine without problem, that he would feel like he didnt have an R.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

Ryze would be better, if the games weren't decided in 15 minutes with 5 or 10 minutes sieging to close it out. I don't know, he is fun to play, but too unfair vs melees, because of the root. His ultimate is useless, unless your are teleporting ulting fiddle/nunu or something similar. I guess pro players can use it to quicky gank or sneak baron, but you can't really organize without voice chat in soloQ, plus vision is not good, because few people ward or actually watch the minimap when have it warded, so your ult will backfire often.

Nevrankroaton1 votes

The worse is that I sincerely think this itineration of ryze is the best.

Combo, lot of skill expression throught it, spam combo but need to aim now, etc.

This dude has honestly a deep kit and one the best "combo" mechanic in the game, it feel cool and fun, you have a lot to learn but you can also fool around with basic stuff.

It is just that... This dude is kinda like camille/irelia for me, he has a LOT of things in his kit and while it could be okay, he also has a LOT of strength that are super valuable in this game; His ult, point and click CC, late game monster, waveclear, strong DPS, mechanics that allow for clutch moment and outplay.

Really, many people laugh at Riot for reworking Ryze but this one is really cool, I just don't know what they can do outside reworking him/keeping what they did right with this one and like trying one last time.

MorgManBasher1 votes

Ryze wins a lot of matchups and can be played mid, top and bot in high ELO. He's far from a bad champ, just not playable for low ELO players.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Ryze wins a lot of matchups and can be played mid, top and bot in high ELO. He's far from a bad champ, just not playable for low ELO players.

I showed you the numbers to prove my point. Care to provide the numbers for yours?

Poske1 votes

Ryze is a complex champion. Afterall he is combo based champion Its really not just his ultimate. even if you rework it they way you described he ll still be worthless in low ELO

Basically what I am trying to say is stop looking at numbers. Ryze numbers are brought down by many people who cant use him effectively

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

Ryze is a complex champion. Afterall he is combo based champion Its really not just his ultimate. even if you rework it they way you described he ll still be worthless in low ELO

Basically what I am trying to say is stop looking at numbers. Ryze numbers are brought down by many people who cant use him effectively

All champions have to pick the right ability order for a situation. Ryze is actually very unlike any other combo-based champs in that his involves very little if any movement and the two different combos you have (QEWQ and QEQWQ/QWQEQ) are very well-defined by his ability text.

As I pointed out in the original post, his pick rate simply is not high enough to use that as the excuse. If it were true, he would see a large increase in performance at the highest levels of play. Which was true prior to all the nerfs to his basic abilities, but is currently not.

solopolo31 votes

R - Runic Power For 6/10 seconds, Ryze gains 10%/30% CDR, breaking the CDR cap if applicable. During this time, Overload will not consume a rune if he has only one charged, and his shield and movement speed from consuming two runes with Overload are 50% stronger and last 1 second longer.

Just wanted to point this out, since I've played ryze before, giving him extra CDR via his ultimate is a terrible idea. When ryze builds enough CDR (I can't remember exactly how much CDR he needs to do this), his E cooldown is just short enough that he can land 3 other abilities before it comes back up, usually being QWQ. After he's used his W, because it has a significantly longer cooldown, all he can do is EQ, pause, EQ, pause, EQ, etc.. Assuming the CDR he needs is 40% (might be less), giving him an extra 30% CDR allows him to simply spam EQEQEQEQ literally nonstop, with even less of a delay than cassio's E's, making his W redundant because not only will you not have time to use it between your other abilities, you'll also be getting massive movespeed boosts every other Q, making escape from him usually impossible, and the constant boosted shielding he'd get combined with the massive dps would make him literally unbeatable in 1v1s as long as he lands his abilities.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

{quoted}

R - Runic Power For 6/10 seconds, Ryze gains 10%/30% CDR, breaking the CDR cap if applicable. During this time, Overload will not consume a rune if he has only one charged, and his shield and movement speed from consuming two runes with Overload are 50% stronger and last 1 second longer.

Just wanted to point this out, since I've played ryze before, giving him extra CDR via his ultimate is a terrible idea. When ryze builds enough CDR (I can't remember exactly how much CDR he needs to do this), his E cooldown is just short enough that he can land 3 other abilities before it comes back up, usually being QWQ. After he's used his W, because it has a significantly longer cooldown, all he can do is EQ, pause, EQ, pause, EQ, etc.. Assuming the CDR he needs is 40% (might be less), giving him an extra 30% CDR allows him to simply spam EQEQEQEQ literally nonstop, with even less of a delay than cassio's E's, making his W redundant because not only will you not have time to use it between your other abilities, you'll also be getting massive movespeed boosts every other Q, making escape from him usually impossible, and the constant boosted shielding he'd get combined with the massive dps would make him literally unbeatable in 1v1s as long as he lands his abilities.

I merely included it because his old ultimate granted CDR. And two rebuttals to your claim it would make him unbeatable in 1v1s:

  1. Many champions are unbeatable 1v1 against anything but hard-counters without needing to land a skillshot. Jax, Yi, Darius, Fiora, Irelia, and so on. And every one of those examples has high sticking power and self-sustain as well. Ryze would be no different from other champions aside from the fact his early game would still be weaker due to mana consumption.

  2. It's just a suggestion. The CDR could be entirely removed or even just reduced to 5/15 or 10/20. And his abilities have cast animations that can't be reduced even with URF CDR.

More from Gameplay

More by The Ecdysiast