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Snowballing is so fucking high that even a full item tank dies in 6 seconds in a teamfight

Hibeki··15 votes·2,269 views

Nasus, fed as fuck, 700 stacks. 300 armor and mr with 3.5k health.

Can't live longer than 10 seconds in a teamfight. Lee QRQ still does 900+ damage

Riot continually goes back and forth. Tanks dominate, then pure damage dominates, then back, and forth.

They buff them too much every single time. Penetrating 50% of a targets resistances means that its basically fucking useless to build tank items unless you are far ahead, It just becomes who can outdamage the other.

I see people building tank when super behind, such a terrible idea. Build damage until youre back in the game, then start building tank again. Building tank when behind makes no difference, they outpace you and you die just as quick, building damage gives you something to fight back with.

27 Comments

CerealBoxOfDoom15 votes

6 seconds is an eternity in league

Rivuo6 votes

{quoted}

6 seconds is an eternity in league

^

If you're lasting ''about 10 seconds'' Thats actually pretty freaking high.

Considering rengar katarina and most assassins kill a squishy in about 1.5-2 seconds.... 10 seconds is a lot lol

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

{quoted}

^

If you're lasting ''about 10 seconds'' Thats actually pretty freaking high.

Considering rengar katarina and most assassins kill a squishy in about 1.5-2 seconds.... 10 seconds is a lot lol

https://gifyu.com/images/Boo-Ghost-Gif.gif

Depárt1 votes

Assassins kill squishies in under a second, even as little as .04 seconds depending on how well they can execute the combo (rengar specifically). As long as an assassin isn't behind they will kill a squishy way before 2 seconds

Edge of Daybreak8 votes

I'm more concerned that players think one champion should be able to tank 5 people while also having damage. imagine if nasus could tank 5 people for 10+ seconds while also dealing a quarter of your hp or more every time he touches you.

In my eyes if it takes 5 people who probably have tens of thosands more gold in their damage than you do in your tank items to kill you over 6 seconds thats crazy enough already.

Only Play Darius2 votes

It's ok for Nasus to deal and take high amounts of damage because he has no mobility and very low range.

Vallalan7 votes

tanks are least tanky end game.

if you are focused down in a team fight late game you should absolutely melt by DPS carries. they are pure damage carries who are squishy as hell if multiple of them are focusing you or the ADC is and they get 5 seconds or more on you (10 seconds...is a long time in league) you are going to die and should

your job is to not get kited and have an impact. thats hard to do on juggernautish champs like nasus, but intended as nasus is tanky AND deals a lot of damage.

tanks are at their height in the mid game.

this is why, despite popular opinion, nasus is strongest around 3-4 items and right before the late late game kicks in. he usually has 300-400 stacks at this point, 40% cdr, some armor/mr and maybe a trinity. this is when he shines as the carries don't have the pen or damage to cut through him fast enough relative to how fast he can kill them.

come late game, you have 800+ stacks if you are good, but the carries have insane dps now as they have built full damage and have the pen they need to cut through you.

you want to group once you have your stacks and then try to end. dont play for late late game even though by nature people think you should because he infinitely scales. the only infinite scaling champ who should be playing for late game is Veigar.

but yes, tanks are not as tanky late game. thats just how it works. a full dps squishy who blows up when sneezed on should be able to kill you if they get enough time. you had your time to shine earlier when that Essence Reaver/Hurricane adc tickled you.

Theorchero2 votes

{quoted}

tanks are least tanky end game.

if you are focused down in a team fight late game you should absolutely melt by DPS carries. they are pure damage carries who are squishy as hell if multiple of them are focusing you or the ADC is and they get 5 seconds or more on you (10 seconds...is a long time in league) you are going to die and should

your job is to not get kited and have an impact. thats hard to do on juggernautish champs like nasus, but intended as nasus is tanky AND deals a lot of damage.

tanks are at their height in the mid game.

this is why, despite popular opinion, nasus is strongest around 3-4 items and right before the late late game kicks in. he usually has 300-400 stacks at this point, 40% cdr, some armor/mr and maybe a trinity. this is when he shines as the carries don't have the pen or damage to cut through him fast enough relative to how fast he can kill them.

come late game, you have 800+ stacks if you are good, but the carries have insane dps now as they have built full damage and have the pen they need to cut through you.

you want to group once you have your stacks and then try to end. dont play for late late game even though by nature people think you should because he infinitely scales. the only infinite scaling champ who should be playing for late game is Veigar.

but yes, tanks are not as tanky late game. thats just how it works. a full dps squishy who blows up when sneezed on should be able to kill you if they get enough time. you had your time to shine earlier when that Essence Reaver/Hurricane adc tickled you.

Absolutely correct, especially with Nasus and his overrated late game.

+1

The Deckowner6 votes

The fact that you can last 6 seconds is very crazy.

Palantair6 votes

You don't build damage to put yourself back on even ground when you are behind. You build defense so you stop dying and let your team deal damage instead. The only time you don't build defensive is if you are the ADC. Thats it. Your job becomes being a damage sponge and to tie a tourniquet on the gaping wound of gold you are giving to the enemy. Dying once is fine. Dying twice, might need to start thinking of some defenses or playing safe. 3x in lane, you fucked up and need to stop dying ASAP and build straight tank.

People who say to build "more damage" when they are behind don't understand some basic concepts of the game. You build defensive items, let the enemy all in on you and catch them with a team mate usually your jungler and punish them for it. If that puts you ahead, go ahead and build some damage again. Otherwise stay the team sponge and soak damage and CC as you can. Theres no reason to force your jungler/mid/top laner to go tanky just because you were getting wrekt and weaken the team mid-late game because you are still going to die, probably even moreso then before due to being behind levels and gold and therefore not contributing as much as the opponent is to their team.

r4ndomkill3 votes

https://youtu.be/GtlryyVK3Zk?t=482 bjergsen say build damage when behind, probably not applicable for tanks doe.

Hibeki2 votes

{quoted}

You don't build damage to put yourself back on even ground when you are behind. You build defense so you stop dying and let your team deal damage instead. The only time you don't build defensive is if you are the ADC. Thats it. Your job becomes being a damage sponge and to tie a tourniquet on the gaping wound of gold you are giving to the enemy. Dying once is fine. Dying twice, might need to start thinking of some defenses or playing safe. 3x in lane, you fucked up and need to stop dying ASAP and build straight tank.

People who say to build "more damage" when they are behind don't understand some basic concepts of the game. You build defensive items, let the enemy all in on you and catch them with a team mate usually your jungler and punish them for it. If that puts you ahead, go ahead and build some damage again. Otherwise stay the team sponge and soak damage and CC as you can. Theres no reason to force your jungler/mid/top laner to go tanky just because you were getting wrekt and weaken the team mid-late game because you are still going to die, probably even moreso then before due to being behind levels and gold and therefore not contributing as much as the opponent is to their team.

I absolutely disagree. I believe that when behind, building as much damage as possible for your role (unless you role is hard tank with no damage) and pay extreme attention to your positioning, and to stop dying.

Tank components by themselves are garbo especially in this meta of penetration ad's and the natural burst of mage. Buying a Giants belt is going to do you much less than buying a bf sword.

For instance, if you are 0/3 top as Irelia, you have a couple options.

A) play super safe and farm under turret B) go gank the other lanes C) position yourself for catches and objectives, and only go back to your lane to stop them from sieging (most of the time a good player will freeze the wave if this is pre 10-15 minutes)

Should you have built tank you have literally nothing to offer your team. Positioning yourself for ganks and objectives makes your tank stats absolutely useless since they are focusing on escaping, and not settling in for a full fight. If you bought trinity force pieces instead of a giants belt and chain vest, you will be doing a lot more to get that double kill than not, since they wont be attacking you.

But lets say that you're behind AND the other lanes are behind but it's still winnable. At this point you don't build tank. Enemies are getting gold faster than you are, and are most likely building penetration items. So not only is it diminishing the value of your tank items, its also worth LESS because of their penetration. Building damage allows you to fight back and get some extra damage in if you die, OR collapse on them with someone else for the kill.

At the point you are back in the game then you build tank again, but most likely you wont be full tank that that point, it will be utility tank like Plate or Randuins for stickiness as well as tank value.

Calabok4 votes

why should we let nasus be unkillable?

Hibeki7 votes

{quoted}

why should we let nasus be unkillable?

It aint just nasus, believe me, it's all tanks. All of them.

VoidStaresBack1 votes

See it's funny you say that, because I've had a grand old time soaking up inordinate amounts of damage as Cho'Gath off-tank (not even full tank) and living through it while annihilating the enemy ADC with my full spell rotation. I keep seeing all these threads about how tanks are worthless, but I haven't actually seen it in my own games.

Maybe I've just gotten lucky so far, I don't play tanks hugely often so who knows.

OxyPoro4 votes

Once lategame kicks in, tanks this season get blown up as fast as bruisers did last season, bruisers get blown up as fast as carries got blown up last season and carries just disappear if they are out of position and get caught, sometimes they don't even get an auto/spell in before their healtbar just vanishes. One second they are there, the other second they are gone. But whatever, some people seem to be enjoying the "faster paced" URF Dota gameplay, I personaly think it's shit and has reduced overal strategy to whoever can cc the other teams carries first or whoever get's the drop on the other guy.

Especially since fully built mages rarely needs to hit half their kits to blow up an adc and fully built adc's rarely need more than 3 auto's to remove a mage. I think it's stupid as fuck.

What's even more depressing is that these silly changes were intended to make LCS more enjoyable to watch, but since damage creep and snowballing is so extreme, teams would rather just laneswap and farm for 15 minutes than risk the game snowballing out of control from early.

[zombie-brand-clap]

Only Play Darius1 votes

I don't know where all the damage came from. Most of the item reworks actually reduced the flat stats and many of the new champ/reworks have unusually low ratios.

OxyPoro1 votes

7% total armor pen while flat and %bonus armor penetration items are abundant on the rift, bounty hunter for 5% increase damage potential or 2,5% against cc'd targets if with oppressor, fully ramped up fervor does about 110 dmg lategame and that's PER autoattack, old masteries never even came close. Despite having to go deeper 21vs18 mastery points to bring out the apex masteries.

And even then, what did the apex masteries give before the new system? If I recall correctly, the old apex of offense tree (warlord?) gave a total of 3% damage increase, easely trumped by assassin and double edged sword alone (at least as far as dage pontential goes)...

Is it any wonder why things are melting so goddamn fast? I'm quite sure if I did the proper math the comparision in damage pontential it would be hilarious. I think someone else did it and in total it ammounted to like 140+%, meaning those that go into the ferocity and cunning try hit at the least 40% harder thanks to stupid shit like thunderlords which is essentaily the 5th hidden nuke of every caster that doesn't get DFT which starts out pretty weak but becomes even more hilarious given you get to that stage in the game where it becomes really effective.

Maybe people don't notice it so much now because most of us have adjusted, but I recall that I was shocked by how easely things died when I first started playing this season and I still feel like things die far easier now than they ever did from season 2-5 be it tank or carry.

Edit: Also, an important detail I forgot to mention.. Cdr is more abundant than ever, on every single class it's quite easy to hit the cap without having to deviate much from a standardized build. Thus we see alot of carries and bruisers running around with 40+ cdr, tanks and supps with 30+ etc while this was only used to be common on champions that specialized in having their skills up as often as possible and even then they'd often need a weird build often sacrificing something to achieve the cap unlike now. This might also be why champions are dealing more damage in a shorter timeframe, they are simply spamming shit far more often than before while the shit is also hitting harder, be it autos or skills.

MKDkilla3 votes

Blame it on cancer like item 3071 item 3142 Lucian MissFortune that will literally shred you in seconds as a 400 armor Rammus/Malph with their ults.

MunchCrunchLunch2 votes

6 whole seconds? tell me your build. I can't last 4 seconds as a full tank with strength of ages and defensive masteries.

Hibeki1 votes

{quoted}

6 whole seconds? tell me your build. I can't last 4 seconds as a full tank with strength of ages and defensive masteries.

Iceborn, Visage, Banshees, Frozen heart, ZZ rot, Warmongs. Sold my boots for tank item in the late game since I had ghost

darkestkhan2 votes

So it took them at least one ultimate and 10 seconds to kill you... remind me, what was your team doing? 10s is enough time to melt through paper pure dmg team...

Hibeki1 votes

.

Cherysse1 votes

It is better to build items that grant both resistances and offensive stats such as item 3001 item 3156 item 3116 item 3157 item 3053 item 3139 then get some life items and a item 3026 to minimze the number of times you die, because believe me, you will die.

Hibeki1 votes

{quoted}

It is better to build items that grant both resistances and offensive stats such as item 3001 item 3156 item 3116 item 3157 item 3053 item 3139 then get some life items and a item 3026 to minimze the number of times you die, because believe me, you will die.

Typically those items are much more expensive then pure offense items (for good reason). When behind, it's best to build straight damage, with the exception of items crucial to your kit (like hourglass for example)

Cherysse2 votes

Hourglass is not that expensive, same goes for Malmortius and Crystal Scepter. They can be quite good when well used. Also Nasus even with full stack can be a worthless bitch, mainly because you need Armor pen for your Q to deal damage (reason I use Hybrid Pen runes on him). Late game his stacks mean nothing because he needs too much armor pen to do well with them unless used against a squishy, yet he does better by offering peel to his teammates.

Only Play Darius1 votes

You're first mistake was picking Nasus. Literally everything about the current meta, pacing champs items objectives, takes a shit on him and while most melee carries are in a bad spot Nasus is the worst of the worst. If you must play a juggernaut don't play the only one that builds pure tank items and has no synergy with damage items, that ADC grinding away at your health isn't going to kill himself.

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