The balance of each champion in the game (my take on each one)

Śhunpo··9 votes·3,193 views

Aatrox Honestly his rework just made him more frustrating to face and a majority of his playerbase hates him now, idk what Riot can do to fix him. Ahri Far too safe and the revert of her Charm nerf (the 20% damage amp.) just made her far too good. She was fine prior to her 2nd mini-rework. Akali Obscure needs to go and she shouldn't deal mixed damage outside of her passive. Alistar Too much CC while being too tanky. Just needs some cooldown changes and some base stat. nerf for early game. Amumu Fine. I honestly don't see any problems here outside of Aftershock. Anivia Somewhat fine, although some base stat. nerfs for early game would be nice since she's a monster in the midgame. Annie Fine. Based LS champion. Maybe a slight buff to her base HP? Ashe Fine. Honestly the most balanced ADC. AurelionSol Make Q insta-poppable and nerf his W damage slightly to compensate. This should fix his core issue of lack self-peel while also making him weaker damage-wise. Azir The champion is a mess, but if I had to pinpoint one way to fix him, some base stat. buffs would go a long way. Bard Passive needs a nerf, W could cost less mana early on and he should have a lil' more HP in the early game. Overall fine. Blitzcrank Fine. No changes needed, he does what he's designed to do and it's pretty healthy. Some hitbox adjustments for his skins might be nice though.... Brand He needs to lose some damage on his passive. That is all. Braum He just needs nerfs across the board, this champion is ridiculous. Start with his passive, then his E and then his W. Q and R are fine though. Caitlyn Fine, I guess. You can't really buff or nerf her without her becoming a balance issue. Possibly some more early base AD just so she can be a lane bully again. Camille Passive needs a nerf, Q2 needs a damage nerf, E needs a range nerf vs champions (and possibly a cooldown nerf). Otherwise this champ is somewhat fair if she were to be nerfed in regards to those aspects. Cassiopeia Ehhhh, fine, I guess. Chogath R needs a base damage nerf vs champions and Gargoyle's shouldn't add damage to it. Other than that, fine. Corki No changes needed, if the meta ever shifts to benefit Corki he'll be great again. No need to make him broken. Darius Lower the slow on W, apart from that....fine? I guess? Diana She needs a rework to fix her core problems. DrMundo Revert the buff to his ultimate's healing % and nerf his E. Apart from that, fine. Draven Uuuuuh, base stat. nerfs? I feel like this champion needs his abilities to be good to even be functional. Also nerf Stormrazor. Ekko Definitely needs a passive damage nerf. Apart from that fine, since he's only really good due to Electrocute, Tonic and Corrupting. Elise Poor spider woman.....needs tiny buffs, nothing major otherwise she'll be pick/ban broken tier status again. Evelynn Either needs a revert or she needs nerfs across the board (except to Q I guess). Ezreal Needs buffs since he's really quite weak. Probably on his base stats. and W? Fiddlesticks Fine, I guess. Aftershock just needs to be tweaked. Fiora Revert the passive buff(s) ASAP and some nerfs to early base stats. She should be weak(ish) early game for such a strong late game hypercarry. Fizz Just make ult deal less damage at max range. Apart from that, fine. Galio Aftershock needs tweaking and his passive needs a minor nerf. Gangplank Barrels need tweaking somehow. Apart from that, somewhat ok if runes were to be balanced. Garen W should grant less resistances and the Villain ult passive should be removed. Gnar Idk tbh he's weird. I would say nerfs but he is in a weird spot. Gragas (Personal bias) Ult shouldn't have a cast time and it should go back to release rework Gragas ult. Graves Remove knockback from his autos vs jungle monsters, tweak how crit. works with his passive and W needs to go back to only being a slow. Hecarim Fine? Possibly needs some damage nerfs and some buffs to his durability. Heimerdinger Fine. Illaoi Nerf E, buff her durability? Something like that? Just spitballing. Irelia She needs nerfs across the board. Ivern Fine? He seems alright now. Janna Make her more than a shieldbot without buffing her damage. JarvanIV Nerf his damage and buff his durability. Jax Ult damage might need a nerf. The problem is it's his items and runes that make him broken. Jayce Less damage on E->Q in ranged form, possibly make his E (Hammer form) deal more damage based on missing HP? Jhin Stormrazor needs a nerf. Stormrazor needs a nerf. His passive needs to be fixed. Jinx Fine now tbh. Kaisa Needs nerfs across the board. Kalista Make E restore more mana on unit kill and buff her base stats. early game. Karma Shieldbomb should be brought back. AP scalings buffed to make tank feel not as effective. Karthus Fine, good in the right hands. Kassadin Nerf ult's damage. Katarina rEmOvE sHUpOs cASt TiMe. Yeah no, but seriously, fix Shunpo since the interactions it has with CC and general damage is frustrating for everyone. Possibly needs some buffs early game. Also remove Gunblade. Obviously I'm biased here. Kayle Needs a rework, thank god she's getting one. She's just unhealthy and can never be balanced in her current state. Kayn His passive needs a nerf and he should lose the heal when going into walls. Kennen Either needs a rework or some drastic changes to make him more healthy to fight, namely on his ult. Khazix Overall damage needs to be toned down. Kindred Stop buffing her/them. She/They are fine as is. Kled Make it harder for Kled to remount when fighting champs but easier to remount vs minions. That's all. KogMaw Tone down overall burst damage on W, increase his DPS. Possibly buff base stats. Leblanc Either rework her again or fix her core issues, being her overly long chain/tether range, obnoxious damage and incredible escape potential. So basically increase the early game CD or Distortion, decrease the range on her tether and lower her damage numbers on, probably Q and RQ. LeeSin Revert the Q change and bring back some form of Sightstone. Leona Revert the Q CD buff and look to buff her in other ways. Also increase the cooldown of her R over all ranks, it's far too low. Lissandra Aftershock needs to go on her. Somehow...It's incredibly unhealthy. Lucian Needs a few nerfs to be brought down back to earth, he's currently an extremely good ADC. Lulu Needs a mini-rework where Polymorph is turned into a skillshot and overall numbers are adjusted to make her more fun to face as opposed to a legitimate nightmare. Lux Stop. Buffing. Every. Ability. That. Isn't. E. Malphite Fine. Malzahar Fine. Maokai Fine? MasterYi Fix Double Strike's interaction with Guinsoo's Phantom Hit, reduce the overall effectiveness of Conqueror and make his Alpha Strike interact more consistently with damage and CC (so no more "I WAS IN ALPHA" moments). MissFortune Just rework her passive again, it's incredibly unhealthy. Mordekaiser Bugs. Lots of bugs. Fix them Riot. Other than that this champion seems to be fairly ok, especially within the one trick population. Morgana Fine. Nami Should be fine with the nerfs they've already put through to live. Nasus Just remove the decreased cooldown on Q during ult and make him even tankier during ult as well as bringing back the extended range on Wither during it. Nautilus Fine. Nidalee Fine after the Dark Harvest nerfs. Might be a problem upon Dark Harvest's rework. Nocturne Needs some changes to put him in line. Currently he's able to run Lethal Tempo without losing much burst damage, this specifically needs to change. Also the movement speed during his fear channel needs to be removed imo. Nunu Fine I guess? He's weird. Olaf Fine? Could become a massive problem next season. Orianna Fine. Ornn Fine in solo queue, broken in competitive. DO NOT BUFF HIM. Pantheon Desperately needs a rework. Poppy The bonus resists on W need to go and her Q needs to have a larger cooldown. In exchange she should get a shield whenever she casts W, this way there will be more skill expression present in her kit. Pyke Passive needs a nerf. Ult should be nerfed and other abilities should have slightly lower cooldowns in the early game just so he's less of an ult-bot. Quinn Bring back her old ult, most Quinn mains liked the old ult more. Rakan Just needs more nerfs across the board, he's a flawed champion design since he just does everything as a support. Rammus Fine? RekSai Fine. Renekton Fine. Rengar Could possibly bring back the old 5 ferocity system for him, since the current ferocity system is braindead. Apart from that from a balance POV, fine? I mean, he's frustrating to play against but he's not a balance problem per say. Riven DO NOT BUFF HER. Otherwise fine. Rumble Fine. Ryze Needs another rework. Sejuani Revert her. Riot needs to accept that this Sejuani is a failure of a champion and he is a pure CC-bot instead of a barbarian queen riding a boar flailing everyone she comes across. Shaco Revert him. Shaco mains hate the new Shaco, opposing players hate facing Shaco and Riot hates this Shaco. Shen Fine? Idk, he should be fine going into next season with Shield Bash. Shyvana Fine. Singed Needs another slight nerf, he's really strong with the Unsealed Spellbook setup. Sion Needs a nerf somehow, possibly in terms of general tankiness? Sivir Fix Stormrazor, give her some compensation buffs. Skarner Fine? He seems to have evident counterplay with QSS existing and general teamwork being able to disrupt what he wants to do. Not entirely sure. Sona Needs some small buffs overall, just not to damage. Probably just mana reduction on each ability in the early game tbh. Soraka Fine. Swain Nerf his passive's healing and he's fine. Syndra Fine. TahmKench A general mess of a champion right now, he needs extensive number changes (again). Taliyah Get her right the fuck out of jungle and back into mid lane. She's absolutely broken in the jungle...although she was absolutely broken in mid lane...Just fix her. Talon Lower the base damage on passive, buff its scaling. That way he's less potent in laning and more potent going into mid-late game. Taric Adjust his stun's hitbox to match the visual indicator. That is all tbh. Teemo Fine. Probably needs a mini-rework. Thresh Fine. Don't give him any more buffs. Tristana Fix Stormrazor and she's fine. Trundle Fine? Another weird case of a champion being ridiculous vs certain team comps and borderline useless vs others. Tryndamere Needs a rework. TwistedFate Fine, despite what TF players not named Apdo say. Twitch A dangerous champion, might possibly need nerfs in the near future since he synergises with the runes extremely well as well as loving BotrK+Runaan's as opposed to the typical 3 item crit. build. Udyr Tiger Stance needs to be toned down and Phoenix Stance needs some love. Urgot His shield needs to be lowered on W, his passive shotgun knees needs to have a higher downtime for each leg/knee and he shouldn't be able to cast active items while or summoner spells while reeling an opponent in. Varus Fix Guinsoo's and you fix Varus. Vayne A potential problem champion going into the pre-season. Guinsoo's needs to be fixed before actually trying to balance her. Veigar Fine in terms of balance, atrocious in terms of overall counterplay. E needs a higher downtime and ult should be a skillshot. Velkoz Regular Vel'koz is fine, the Glacial Augment build is not. Thereby Glacial might need to be looked at. Vi Strong in low elo, lacking in high elo. Could use some small buffs (probably base stats). Viktor Get him out of top lane. Fix Iceborn, and fix his Hexcore. Anything to get him back into mid lane where he belongs. Vladimir Q3 needs to be toned down in terms of damage and healing. That's really all he needs in terms of balance changes. Volibear Fine. Warwick His E could use a nerf to the damage reduction, apart from that fine. MonkeyKing Revert the nerf done to his Q. Xayah She's currently in a weird spot where she's strong in terms of her kit, but when compared to the likes of Kai'sa and Varus she's a sub-optimal choice. Might potentially need nerfs once Kai'sa and Varus' reign as top dogs is ended. Xerath Fine. When he's played right he's amazing, when he's not he's useless. XinZhao Early game damage needs to be toned down. Yasuo Fix Conqueror, fix Resolve, fix Phantom Dancer and fix Windwall. There, the champion is finally somewhat balanced. He's fundamentally broken for so many different reasons... Yorick Revert the nerf to Ghouls' damage... Zac Revert him. Zed Revert the buff done to his Q's damage reduction when a target is hit by multiple Qs. He simply did not need that buff. Ziggs Could use some buffs, he's kinda a dumpster tier champ atm. Zilean Fine. Zoe Stop re-buffing her. She probably needs a mini-rework if anything. Zyra As a support she's bordering on being broken, similar to Brand in that aspect. Imo they should emphasis her to be played in the mid lane without actually completely removing her from the support role. However to do this Riot would likely need to change more than just Zyra since she's not sent mid lane due to the other competing champions sent mid lane.


Obviously this is all just my personal opinion, so take each one with a grain of salt. Tell me what you think down below so I can get an idea of what sort of views I might have backwards.

47 Comments

JeaneGreene5 votes

Ivern is terribly weak, as:

He is better if your team is corrodinated (such as in higher level play) He is worse in higher level play because he can be counterjungled up the ass. So he is always kinda ‘meh’ or bad in any rank because he relies on there being a skill discrepancy for him to be able to help.

Śhunpo1 votes

I mean, if he's good in coordinated play then that means he's doing at least alright balance-wise. The same thing can be said about Ryze.

JeaneGreene1 votes

The difference is that Ryze can solo carry reliably without his ult. So many parts of Ivern’s kit (Passive, Q, W, and E) are reliant on your team being aware of his kit and when to go in at the right time. Partially it is because he is a support in a traditional “carry” role, but partially it is because of how easily he is countered in the early game.

Śhunpo1 votes

Well design-wise he's not exactly healthy so I don't quite know how they'd buff him.

JeaneGreene2 votes

Two things to buff:

  1. MS: This allows him to try to contest camps if he sees someone counterjungling him.
  2. Scuttle Clear: Maybe make the mark time a little shorter? Currently he can’t get scuttle without smite..

If someone is trying to take his camp (and he gets there in time) he can usually defend it pretty well, as the camps won’t attack him.

Śhunpo1 votes

I....actually agree with these changes. Plus, maybe they could buff his HP regen a lil as well? Just putting it out there.

Warlord Rhinark4 votes

They hated him for he told them the truth.

Project Xayah2 votes

{quoted}

Quinn Bring back her old ult, most Quinn mains liked the old ult more.

+1 just for this.

Don't care about anything else.

Moody P1 votes

Volibear needs big buffs

Śhunpo1 votes

The buff on E he got was great. I think he's solid rn, not meta, but a good off-pick.

ankoanko191 votes

NERFING FIORA OMEGA LUL!

Śhunpo1 votes

Yes, she needs to be weaker early game since she's a late game hypercarry.

ankoanko191 votes

NERFING VEIGAR OMEGALUL

Śhunpo1 votes

More like balance him out in terms of counterplay and give his kit some more skill expression.

ankoanko191 votes

{quoted}

More like balance him out in terms of counterplay and give his kit some more skill expression.

What? Like honest to God, his E is his skill expression. The stupid ass delay makes it near impossible to land on someone who knows to play around it. I get it, Veigar is niche and its hard to not get to play around him so often. But just watch videos. Katarina in particular is excellent against him since his stun doesnt stop her E. He is not that good, he is just a niche pick against dashy champs (explains his 56 & 54% wr against Akali and Irelia).

Yes, she needs to be weaker early game since she's a late game hypercarry.

But she isnt good right now. She is complete dogshit compared to most other top bruisers and is infact in the same state if not worse than Maokai. Fiora is a lategame carry but she needs to snowball to get there. Her items are expensive. She cant farm reliably either since she is melee. And with games ending at around max 25-30 min most of the time, she wont get to that hypercarry status if she isnt snowballing hard. Unless Riot lowers bruiser item costs and AD item costs or they just nerf every other toplaner than her, she wont be good for quite some time.

Śhunpo1 votes

What? Like honest to God, his E is his skill expression. The stupid ass delay makes it near impossible to land on someone who knows to play around it. I get it, Veigar is niche and its hard to not get to play around him so often. But just watch videos. Katarina in particular is excellent against him since his stun doesnt stop her E. He is not that good, he is just a niche pick against dashy champs (explains his 56 & 54% wr against Akali and Irelia).

His E is still useful even if the stun doesn't connect since it boxes them in (as it should). Katarina is not as excellent against him as you might think, she's good against him early game to Gunblade but then that game is Veigar's. Also her Shunpo's cast time makes it so that she gets stunned even if you "avoid" Event Horizon. His stun most definitely stops her E, and in teamfights it's honestly one of the best abilities to shut Katarina down.

Oh yeah, I also don't see the skill expression and counterplay in Veigar's kit when he turns around and deals 1.5k to me with his point and click R. Yeeeeaaah real fun...

But she isnt good right now. She is complete dogshit compared to most other top bruisers and is infact in the same state if not worse than Maokai. Fiora is a lategame carry but she needs to snowball to get there. Her items are expensive. She cant farm reliably either since she is melee. And with games ending at around max 25-30 min most of the time, she wont get to that hypercarry status if she isnt snowballing hard. Unless Riot lowers bruiser item costs and AD item costs or they just nerf every other toplaner than her, she wont be good for quite some time.

She IS good right now, otherwise people wouldn't be playing her in high elo consistently. Wait, Maokai's bad? Come again? I mean I admit, he's not great, but he's still really really good as a team-orientated pick.

Her items are expensive yes, that's why you can opt to run Kleptomancy.

"She cant farm reliably either since she is melee." Then learn to manage the wave properly? Farm under tower?

I should also note that she only really needs Ravenous and Triforce/BC to start carrying, both of which aren't too difficult to get, especially for a champion like Fiora that freefarms post Tiamat. Oh, and also, metas change, so in a meta where late game is the be-all end-all Fiora will be bullshit since she also has an early game.

ankoanko191 votes

Inorder for Veigar to deal 1.5k dmg you need to be at a max of 33% hp. At that point the 1.5k dmg is overkill. He cant just press R and OS reliably like in S5. Thats why Kat is a good matchup against him. You can deny him farm since your champion basically has the stronger early game. Trust me, playing behind as Veigar and the enemy mid wont let you farm, you feel so useless. You play around it, like youd play against Nasus. Veigar doesnt have consistent dps, tankyness or sustain. He only has a good zoning tool and burst ( in the midgame). And most importantly: he is statistically not overpowered.

What? Fiora has a 6% pickrate and cant even reach 50% wr. While that pr is def not low its not consistent. She is used mainly as an Irelia and Aatrox counter.But in SoloQ maokais not good. Maokai is ironically enough better than Fiora in this meta.

Kleptomancy on Fiora doesnt work in the same fashion as on GP. Besides, barely anyone runs it.

Wowza! Toplane doesnt work the same way as Midlane. Freezing is a lot easier top. And how tf do you manage waves with tiamat? Boi you tripping.

Śhunpo1 votes
ankoanko191 votes

{quoted}

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/368919763176390669/507590296335417355/unknown.png

He ulted me at full HP. It did 1.5k with only 762 AP.

You had 0 mr and his Q & lich dealt 45% magic dmg which meant he ulted you when you had around only 1.1k hp. So no you werent full hp, your death recap literally states that.

Śhunpo1 votes

I literally was at full HP he fucked up his W placement and he R->auto'd->Q.

ankoanko191 votes

{quoted}

I literally was at full HP he fucked up his W placement and he R->auto'd->Q.

And a Kat Q+E+W can also OS if you have 0 mr. Burst champion doing exactly that: bursting.

Śhunpo1 votes

Except it doesn't oneshot now since she needs to wait for her dagger(s) to drop.....Sorry, that comparison does not even hold a candle to Veigar.

Śhunpo1 votes

As for Fiora you don't manage waves with Tiamat? I just said that she can purchase Tiamat to alleviate her issue with clearing full waves.

chipndip11 votes

Give him more skill expression

also this thread

Every champ with even a slight ounce of skill expression is not fine and needs nerfs. Any champ that was reworked to add skill expression needs a revert of some kind. My character needs buffs. Don't mind her 54% Diamond win rate and 4% Diamond play rate, let alone the fact that all her win rates are positive above Gold.

Śhunpo1 votes

Again, you're cherry-picking and not understanding what those stats. mean.

....wait....are you per chance suggesting that you'd like to see Kat reverted? If so I'm 100% down for that.

ahem But as for skill expression, what you say IS true, but I would like to say that some specific abilities such as Veigar's ult really do need some more skill expression and counterplay added to them, especially in the case of Veigar where it's a mega-nuke; and no, buying MR should NOT be the ONLY solution, nor should going untargetable. If they just make his ult a skillshot they could give it a nice range and make it pass through minions, that would more than make up for it. Plus, he has a stun, he can still land his ult on stunned targets, what this change would mean is that you could dodge it after cleansing the stun or you could get a teammate to bodyblock it for you, which is far more healthy.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Again, you're cherry-picking and not understanding what those stats. mean.

....wait....are you per chance suggesting that you'd like to see Kat reverted? If so I'm 100% down for that.

No, I'm saying you're talking out your ass because your champion's bland in comparison to newer assassins like Eve and Akali, so you want buffs to make your champ feel as cool and strong as you think those champs are when, in reality, your champ is generally better in solo queue than most assassins in this game for those that main the champion. That's what I'm saying.

ahem But as for skill expression, what you say IS true, but I would like to say that some specific abilities such as Veigar's ult really do need some more skill expression and counterplay added to them

No. Adding skill expression adds more salty dogs that are either sad that their champ isn't cool or mad that they got styled on. Leave Veigar as is unless Riot finally wants to give him knees and yordle ears.

Śhunpo1 votes

Kat is worse than you think, at least in the fun department, so she's more bland than you think as well.

As for Veigar I still firmly believe that his ult should be a skillshot, same to abilities like Lulu Polymorph.

Ralanr1 votes

So you want Kayn to lose jungle sustain and give Poppy a shield on top of the ability that gives MS and an anti dash zone?

Śhunpo1 votes

She'd be losing the passive resistances, which would nerf the braindead Poppys who just live due to general tankiness, and believe me she's incredibly tanky with these resistances. Instead proper timing of W would also benefit survivability and you'd be further able to see the difference between a good Poppy and a great Poppy.

Kayn wouldn't really lose thaaat much sustain since his Q+Talisman already heals him for quite a lot, especially against Raptors. The only time this really becomes an issue for him would be if he went Raptors->Red/Blue since he'd lose a little more HP at his first buff. I just feel like the heal is so unnecessary and his E is already incredibly frustrating to play against.

Ralanr1 votes

Except Poppy’s W is already meant to be used for stopping dashes, which is counted as something that needs to be timed properly. You’d basically make the ability into a more selfish choice, which goes against what the ability is for.

Śhunpo1 votes

Either way I want those resistances gone and replaced with a more temporary means of survivability within her kit. The resistances make her absolutely obnoxious in terms of sheer tankiness.

chipndip12 votes

Don't let this distract from the fact that this guy made a huge thread just to say that all the "fine" champions are the most bland and boring ones from a mechanical perspective and that Katarina needs small buffs when her general win rate in Diamond is 54% on a relatively decent 4% pick rate.

Śhunpo1 votes

3% pick rate (declining as time goes on), but you can continue cherry-picking all you want. When I say small buffs I'm legitimately just talking about bugfixes and stuff like +5 movement speed and possibly +5 damage on passive early on. That's it. Also that 54% win rate in Diamond has a story to it, so just saying "hurr durr higher number" isn't really touching upon the actual reasoning.

Pretty much all I want are bugfixes and QoL changes for Kat. The most notable change/changes would be fixing Shunpo. Shunpo has some very unfair interactions both for her AND her opponents and so I'm hoping they can do something about that like removing the cast time (the more extreme change) or making her unstoppable during the cast time to avoid any of those said unfair interactions (the more realistic choice). Those are two ideas I've thought of, and I imagine if you do not play Kat you think they're insane changes, but they're really not. She'd still maintain her weaknesses, she'd just be less frustrating to play, that's it, because that's all Kat is right now, frustrating to play. Kat isn't "fun" right now primarily due to Shunpo, and if you want to argue with that then please, play Kat for saaaay....a week and come back to me. By then you would likely be complaining about how bullshit and anti-fun Shunpo's cast time is (hence my name).

Also I suggested removing Gunblade. That's legitimately THE biggest nerf to Katarina, so it only makes sense to give her compensation buffs as a result.

Yes, the bland champions are usually fine because they're just that, bland. Bland champions are usually not overloaded like champions such as new Akali and Irelia and so they usually get balanced somewhat properly.

Simple champions are absolutely fine and I have nothing against them, hence why I think that a lot of the "bland" champions are "fine" or healthy balance wise. Oh, and you'll also notice that I said that about most of the tanks, there IS a reason for that, most of them have received nerfs across the board and are finally "tanks" as opposed to tanky bruisers packed with CC that outperform bruisers.

chipndip12 votes

{quoted}

3% pick rate (declining as time goes on), but you can continue cherry-picking all you want. When I say small buffs I'm legitimately just talking about bugfixes and stuff like +5 movement speed and possibly +5 damage on passive early on. That's it.

Base. Stat. Changes. Aren't. Small. Changes.

Also that 54% win rate in Diamond has a story to it, so just saying "hurr durr higher number" isn't really touching upon the actual reasoning.

54% win/4% Play/top Katarinas 59% win

"Hurr durr long story buff my champion pls"

You don't really know much about champion balance. You literally made this thread to talk about buffs your champ doesn't need. 5 ms...you crazy...

Śhunpo1 votes

5 movement speed is nothing. Notice how Irelia didn't suffer at all when she lost it.

Base stats. are not large changes, unless we're talking about tweaking base HP, in which case, yes, that's a huge change. +5 movement speed and +5 damage on passive would be just fine. You wouldn't break Kat in any way shape or form by giving her those tiny buffs.

Gildarzt1 votes

Shaco mains also don't want a revert XD

Śhunpo1 votes

They really do...

Gildarzt1 votes

I don't want

chipndip11 votes

This man said Sona needs buffs.

You people on the board just fucking slay me. I can't...I just can't...

Śhunpo1 votes

She does need buffs yes. Compared to other supports she's a trashy pick.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

Nerfing eve across the board? Why? Item reliant. Essentially immobile. 2.5s charge on her charm. Largest camo detection radius Weak early game

Śhunpo1 votes

And she's still really good. I understand the pains that Eve players go through, but she is a very strong champion right now even after the Dark Harvest nerfs. By nerfs across the board I just mean another damage nerf to empowered E, lower magic pen. on her charm and a lil more damage shaved off of ult.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

{quoted}

And she's still really good. I understand the pains that Eve players go through, but she is a very strong champion right now even after the Dark Harvest nerfs. By nerfs across the board I just mean another damage nerf to empowered E, lower magic pen. on her charm and a lil more damage shaved off of ult.

She is an assassin, all that she brings is damage and her very delayed picking ability. You nerf her only asset further and you risk making her irrelevant because of how reliant she is on AP scaling.

Her charm is fine. It takes 2.5s to charge hence why it provides the MR shredding to the degree it does.

As it stands, evelynn suffers from being eternally hated similarly to Kassadin So when she is balanced, or performs decently people overreact, and when she underperforms, such as pre rework, people do not care.

Considering the pains you must go through to be a successful eve I think she is well balanced. If there was an area I would change, it might be a slight reduction in her slow.

Śhunpo1 votes

She also brings safety and amazing flank potential.

Point being, she's strong imo. If you think otherwise that's fine, but I do think she still needs some small nerfs just to get her in line with other junglers.

Don't say Evelynn is eternally hated, that doesn't even compare to the hatred that players have towards Katarina now. The mere mention of Katarina is enough for them to mass downvote you and not contribute anything meaningful to the discussion besides "She has a high win rate in Diamond!".

Back to Eve though, I'm not talking large nerfs, I legitimately just mean small damage nerfs just so her targets have a little more leg room to react against her, because she pretty much oneshots when she's ahead now with a combination of Runic+Revolver+Lich Bane on Empowered E, especially if she chooses to run Dark Harvest; despite its nerf. I just want them to make it so that she needs to use her full rotation of close to it unless she's hyper-fed, moreso than she has to now. I do not want them to nerf her into the ground, I just want some small nerfs to her numbers, that's all.

Then again, I guess she's no longer broken tier, so I may be wrong for thinking that she needs small nerfs.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

{quoted}

She also brings safety and amazing flank potential.

Agreed, and her charm is excellent for mind play.

Point being, she's strong imo. If you think otherwise that's fine, but I do think she still needs some small nerfs just to get her in line with other junglers.

Most junglers are rather weak, and need changes mechanically. Amumu and Fiddle aregood examples of champions who need changes along with sejuani. Evelynn looks very strong, and it is true she performs well, but she is also one of the few AP based junglers who is viable in solo queue.

Considering how item reliant she is and how reliant on ratios she is, altering her damage would make her already bad early game even worse.

Don't say Evelynn is eternally hated, that doesn't even compare to the hatred that players have towards Katarina now. The mere mention of Katarina is enough for them to mass downvote you and not contribute anything meaningful to the discussion besides "She has a high win rate in Diamond!".

Haha that is true. I would say evelynn is just below lat simply because ofnher bad history.

Back to Eve though, I'm not talking large nerfs, I legitimately just mean small damage nerfs just so her targets have a little more leg room to react against her, because she pretty much oneshots when she's ahead now with a combination of Runic+Revolver+Lich Bane on Empowered E, especially if she chooses to run Dark Harvest; despite its nerf. I just want them to make it so that she needs to use her full rotation of close to it unless she's hyper-fed, moreso than she has to now. I do not want them to nerf her into the ground, I just want some small nerfs to her numbers, that's all.

Then again, I guess she's no longer broken tier, so I may be wrong for thinking that she needs small nerfs.

Well consider the circumstances in which she will one shot. She needs a minimum of runic and lichbane and part of a third item. If it is a tank, charm must be fully charged and ifshe cant burst the target low enough her ult wont be damage boosted.

Squishy targets all die to a single assassin rotation, and considering her cooldowns it makes little sense to nerf her damage so people survive a rotation. The moment that occurs, she fails her job as an assassin and ypu might as well pick someone along the lines of graves or lee sin. Champs with a strong early game and outplay ability.

It is why i think she is fine. Her strengths are proportional to the items she utilizes. It isnt an innate issue like it is with say, zoe or pre-rework kassadin.

I also dont agree with nerfing warwicks damage reduction purely because the moment he is in combat he loses his ms buff, and he is a champ thay initates fights.

I do yhink graves needs to be addressed. He is far too safe and tanky. The ad nerf helped reduce his clear times, but the true issue is how healthy he is during a gank.

His knockback needs to be removed from jungle monsters. It is also why he can contest scuttle so easily. It strips the crabs armor and mr when he autos it. Otber junglers are forced to ue a cc abiloty to do the same thing, making them weaker when fighting.someone for it early on.

As a jungler, graves is as dominant as s4 lee sin and elise. Only reason the former isnt as bad is simply because graves is a better pick over him.

Śhunpo1 votes

Well consider the circumstances in which she will one shot. She needs a minimum of runic and lichbane and part of a third item. If it is a tank, charm must be fully charged and ifshe cant burst the target low enough her ult wont be damage boosted.

I agree here, but I do think that her reworked kit is a lot more "burst-y" if that's the word than her old kit was (though not by much).

I mean....Riot seemed intent on making assassins slower, and Evelynn when ahead is kinda the opposite of slow, she empowered Es you and you're dead due to Runic+(Revolver) Lich Bane. I'm just stating that in comparison to other assassins who got reworked she's still quite fast in terms of general oneshot capabilities. Take my opinion with a grain of salt since I'm a Kat main and she's now THE single slowest champion in the game.

His knockback needs to be removed from jungle monsters.

You're not the only one who thinks this. A lot of junglers atm have some sort of "jungle4babies" mechanic that allows them to clear really well, whether it be Graves' knockback or Kayn's bonus damage to monsters on Q.

I'd also be willing to say that Graves atm is more dominant than s4 Elise and Lee sin, only really losing to the likes of faster clearers. But even then he's a better ganker than them...sooo.....yeah, he doesn't really struggle in general atm.

So you are right, other junglers do need to be toned down. But likewise, Evelynn does need some form of tone down in some aspect since otherwise she'd be THE tier S pick the moment Graves and co. got nerfed.

Bears Dont Care1 votes

{quoted}

I agree here, but I do think that her reworked kit is a lot more "burst-y" if that's the word than her old kit was (though not by much).

I mean....Riot seemed intent on making assassins slower, and Evelynn when ahead is kinda the opposite of slow, she empowered Es you and you're dead due to Runic+(Revolver) Lich Bane. I'm just stating that in comparison to other assassins who got reworked she's still quite fast in terms of general oneshot capabilities. Take my opinion with a grain of salt since I'm a Kat main and she's now THE single slowest champion in the game.

Oh yeah, all the assassins suffered a larger window of burst time. In the case of evelynn, not only did she get a larger burst window but she also has become very item reliant. If she doesn't have large amounts of AP its a tricky matter to assassinate.

You're not the only one who thinks this. A lot of junglers atm have some sort of "jungle4babies" mechanic that allows them to clear really well, whether it be Graves' knockback or Kayn's bonus damage to monsters on Q.

I'd also be willing to say that Graves atm is more dominant than s4 Elise and Lee sin, only really losing to the likes of faster clearers. But even then he's a better ganker than them...sooo.....yeah, he doesn't really struggle in general atm.

I can agree to this as well. graves is very dominant as a champ., but I wouldn't say more, only because of the fact that Lee Sin and Elise were both pick or ban back in S4 and S5. It was just the nature of the game at the time which was also more easily dioctated by the individual rather than the entire team,.

So you are right, other junglers do need to be toned down. But likewise, Evelynn does need some form of tone down in some aspect since otherwise she'd be THE tier S pick the moment Graves and co. got nerfed.

Nope. One of the fundamental issues of assassins is that they are only strong against a team that is uncoordinated. It is why if you noticed, assassins generally don't have their damage touched. Their utility is so poor that taking it away immediately dumps them. Evelynn takes advantage of people who don't properly ward or group. I would make the same argument for Talon or Fizz if they were brought into question. They have only a singular strength, nerfing it tends to have a much greater impact than nerfing the damage of say, jarvan IV.

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