@Riot, Didn't you say you'll introduce a Shield reducing [mechanic/item] this season?

Wukong Airlines·Jan 16, 2018·28 votes·1,488 views

When will we get information regarding this matter? Shields are the most problematic thing in this meta [besides the Assassin dmg].

Here's a list of things that you should consider when introducing the shield reduction item/s:-

-Make it so both build paths [AD/AP] benefit from it -Rework so it can be equal of [[ ]] -Allow Mages to build something out of [ ]

I don't play Mages, but I believe they deserve to have more options since even AD casters/hypercarries/ADCs can benefit from [Zhonyas active].

43 Comments

OleandervineJan 16, 201825 votes

ATTENTION: item 3135 DOES NOT NEED TO BE REWORKED. It grants you 80 AP and +40% magic penetration. Please note, magic penetration is NOT the same as bonus magic penetration. Pure magic penetration nullifies ALL MR, not just the bonus MR, which is MR that is added to the base stats that comes from items or abilities or friendly effects. This means that Void Staff will allow you cut base MR levels which Whisper and Regards do not.

Both item 3036 and item 3035 grant +35% bonus armor penetration. This means those items will never be able to cut below base armor stats. Bonus armor is the exact same as bonus MR, it is the armor that originates from items and spells and friendly effects.

If AD had a version of Void Staff, it would be the armor penetration nightmare of Season 6 all over again.

Edited*

NyarlathοtepJan 16, 20182 votes

Wait what? It will never give the enemies negative mr. It ignores 40% of mr. Even if the target had 1 mr, the mr wouldnt even become 0.

doodlebob666Jan 16, 20184 votes

yes but if someone has item 3151 item 3020 item 3135 they can lower someones mr below 0 so it does allow you to cut below 0 mr if you stack mr pen

NyarlathοtepJan 16, 20181 votes

With the other 3 yeah you are able to cut below 0 but you need all three.

OleandervineJan 16, 20182 votes

I edited it - but still, Void Staff is better in comparison to Whisper and Regards because it isn't limited to just bonus MR.

TheSandQratorJan 16, 20185 votes

Actually, magic penetration, bonus or otherwise, just stops at 0 so, no, you can't reduce an enemy's magic resistance below 0 with magic penetration; it has to actually be reduced below 0 with magic resistance reduction, both forms of it (percentage and flat) are applied before penetration is.

"Note: Magic Penetration cannot affect enemy magic resistance beyond 0 to deal bonus damage."

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Magic_penetration

There's only eight sources of MR reduction in the game at the moment though, (seven available to champions: one item, six abilities; five percentage reductions, two flat reductions; and then Baron's debuff), so that's not going to happen in a hurry. But if they do reduce it below zero, then yes, they take more magic damage. The blue buff has negative MR as standard, as an example.

Also while Void Staff regularly reduces less numerically, that's because MR is a little harder to stack to good effect than armour (due to the ADC existing, you pretty much always need some form of armour if you're building tanky). It's still an increase in damage to everyone. Moreso, because like others have said, it also affects base MR.

AirKingNeoJan 16, 20181 votes

You can use Wit's End to get below 0 though.

TheSandQratorJan 16, 20181 votes

Wit's End is a (the only) flat MR reduction item. It's separate from Magic Penetration in that it directly modifies the target's MR for its duration, for everyone's damage, not just your for the purposes of your own damage.

Magic penetration is a separate stat, and is flat-out ignored if the target's MR is below 0 at any stage.

Daddy AntsJan 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

ATTENTION: DOES NOT NEED TO BE REWORKED. It grants you 80 AP and +40% magic penetration. Please note, magic penetration is NOT the same as bonus magic penetration. Pure magic penetration nullifies ALL MR, not just the bonus MR, which is MR that is added to the base stats that comes from items or abilities or friendly effects. This means that Void Staff will allow you cut base MR levels which Whisper and Regards do not.

Both and grant +35% bonus armor penetration. This means those items will never be able to cut below base armor stats. Bonus armor is the exact same as bonus MR, it is the armor that originates from items and spells and friendly effects.

If AD had a version of Void Staff, it would be the armor penetration nightmare of Season 6 all over again.

Edited*

Armor Pen needs to go up to 40% imo.

Well LDR and Mortal reminder but the 1300g Last whisper should stay 35%.

+5% Bonus armor pen for +150-200 on the cost of LW upgrades.

JackMcSnipeyzJan 16, 201810 votes

Lol void stuff is better than the last whisper items. How can you compare 40% TOTAL magic penetration to 35% BONUS armor pen.

Void stuff doesnt need any buffs it's already superior.

ModWulf HelhammerJan 16, 20185 votes

If mages get a QSS item, then AD champions get an actual zhonyas item, and not just a 1 use throwaway

Dead flag bluesJan 16, 20187 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Wolf King,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qb5EjAVs,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-16T18:28:01.898+0000)

If mages get a QSS item, then AD champions get an actual zhonyas item, and not just a 1 use throwaway

HEXDRINKER

ModWulf HelhammerJan 16, 20183 votes

You've gotta be fucken kidding me...

You honestly believe that Hexdrinker and Zhonya's are even close to the same kind of item? Seriously?

T4underboltJan 16, 20182 votes

Not close. Hexdrinker is 100 times better. Not only magic resist is more effective for its users, but has a shield and it is already highly usefull with its base form. Im not mentioning hexdrinker which completely is hundred thousand times better than zhoynia. Giving you usefull combat stats outside of resistance, huge shield and more AD.

AyzevJan 16, 20186 votes

ADs have a cheap item that gives them a magic damage shield, while APs don't have that for physical damage. If we're going to give ADs what APs have, then we should also give APs what ADs have. That's what his point was, not some comparison.

ModWulf HelhammerJan 16, 20183 votes

That's not what OPs point was.

And if you want an AD shield hexdrinker, then you'll see how worthless the thing would actually be.

Seriously, the thing has like no advantages outside of laning phase. Most of the time it's just going to proc for no good reason, and the times it saves your life are few and far between, and even then you're either still going to die or you'd be better off with another item.

AirKingNeoJan 16, 20181 votes

isn't a good item

ThilmerJan 16, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Wolf King,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qb5EjAVs,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-16T18:28:01.898+0000)

If mages get a QSS item, then AD champions get an actual zhonyas item, and not just a 1 use throwaway

Nobody would buy an AD Zhonyas.

Zhonyas active is the most overrated thing in the game.

AirKingNeoJan 16, 20184 votes

Heal reduction is already broken and unbalanced as fuck.

Why would we need to break the game further?

Broken BandleJan 16, 20183 votes

And a strong majourity of the champions who were perpetuating the shield meta fell down hard once ardent took a bat to the knees and the runes reforged system came out. Shields are strong, but don't have the same daunting power that they did last season.

T4underboltJan 16, 20182 votes

Ofc not. Thats why all I see bot lane is Lulu+twitch, lulu+vayne,+lulu+varus, lulu+mf and nothing else. Switch lulu with janna if lulu is banned. And from time to time you see leona and alistar because they are currently broken to oblivion. Lulu gets 20% cdr early and right after one shield ends or gets popped she has almost another shield ready. Not mentioning retarded poke and additional shields from aery. You literally outrade anyone in lane. You cant go wrong with lulu in lane. I could literally pick lucian the worst adc in the meta and win fights even when playing like boosted bonobo because lulu was giving me all this shields, heals and shit. I could literally stand and use my abilities and autos. Shields heal supports are still a problem. As long as support items have shield heal power in their stats this wont change and shields are too powerfull early on their own already. Not mentioning null mana costs of these shields. And considering most support items give a lot of ap for a support items it is even worse further amplifying both damage and shields.

Broken BandleJan 16, 20182 votes

If these shield items are so strong, then why aren't you playing support for easy gains? The shields mean nothing if the adc doesn't do anything with the work the support puts in. And if the enemy team is running someone with lethality, most adcs just pop regardless.

I'm not saying that things are in a perfect state, because they aren't. Lulu's kit has always been versatile and loaded with everything but late game damage....kinda sounds more like we should ban Lulu than punish all shield wielding supports tbhfam.

T4underboltJan 17, 20181 votes

Sorry but id rather climb using my own skills than rely on picking a point and click champ that has everything and rewards you without any risks or trade offs for whatever you are doing. This is what i hate about changes in thisngame thus I wont give myself away to this bullsht. Lulu asked for nerfs for a long time yet nothing has been done. Aery is completely oppresive. I destroyed enemy varus regardless of lulu thanks to enemy jungler ignoring bot but once he got 2 rageblade components he was able to nearly 2v3 becuas of lulu dmg and utility.

warpenguin555Jan 16, 20183 votes

IDK if AP QSS is needed as much anymore, AP already has banshees veil. Plus do we really need are harder time catching Fizz or LeBlanc?

PokladnicaZlaJan 16, 20182 votes

We could just make banshee's build out of QSS,like RITO madr Stopwatch build into GA. It would surve much purpuse,butthat you get the desired effect sooner.

Tho,I do not want to face a Fizz or LB with a QSS,like ever

MarshbouyJan 16, 20183 votes

Can you find a source on this claim that riot would release a shield removing item?

Sorry, but I'm getting really fucking tired of people making things up on the boards.

ArakadiaJan 16, 20183 votes

I'm pretty sure they said they would try things out regarding shields and one of the ideas was a shield item. Pretty soon people are going to start demanding the shield item they were "promised".

It's probably in a Dev Corner Gameplay and Thoughts post.

MarshbouyJan 16, 20183 votes

A "we'll try this out" sounds 100x more realistic than a "promise."

Pretty soon people are going to start demanding the shield item they were "promised".

they already have lmao. See this post for example.

DarkRitualJan 17, 20182 votes

We're one week into the season...

PennsJan 16, 20181 votes

they also said they wont be reworking fizz much :]

Wukong AirlinesJan 16, 20181 votes

I'm no Fizz expert, but I barely see him once every 100 games.

SelegunJan 16, 20181 votes

Last I saw it was said that that type of item was worth looking into. Doesn't really confirm anything will come of that.

RukajiJan 16, 20181 votes

Or let's remove ad and ap, and just put "damage" instead Easier, any champion can take any item (1, sorry for my english, 2, was indeed a joke, stop flaaaaame)

AzeranthJan 16, 20181 votes

I think it's something where you'll do bonus damage to sheulded targets or whatever.

PokladnicaZlaJan 16, 20181 votes

What if we made true damage by pass shields ( myb better only ally shields). Vayne would be too broken tho.I mean,she's already crazy strong,so they could just nerf her.

vgamedudeJan 16, 20181 votes

Assassin damage is the second most problematic thing this meta? LMAO

At least a zed has to use skill to burst someone and get in range for it, meanwhile we have Vayne rolling around shiv critting 3/4th of your health.

THE RlVER KlNGJan 17, 20181 votes

tahm kench says no

Total EclipseJan 17, 20181 votes

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