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Can we Tone down Khazix's stealth for fuck sake?

Wukong Airlines··95 votes·19,039 views

I will ignore that he received huge compensation buffs , it's not like he was the sole reason why item 3147 got nerfed, or was he?

You've given a pointclick easy champ a perma-bush stealth, and it's so fucking frustrating to locate him as soon as he enters one. But wait, he's refreshed item 3147's passive, guess you're dead so nvm. and what's funny that if he messed up, he's got his [E], if he kills someone and there's no bush around he can just press [E] again since it resets.

Remove that [R] bush stealth, or give it a 15 seconds CD. Bad decision making/plays should be punished, not given another way makeup for it.

81 Comments

6KEMBE4ORBA28 votes

Stealth as a whole is a problem because it has no counterplay anymore after Riot "reworked" it.

I was writing a thread about stealth, posting it now:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/H3vA1rpX-stealth-the-rework-that-removed-counterplay-and-its-current-state

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

"We want stealth to be part of a champs powerbudget but we are never adressing stealth as part of their powerbudget, would be a lot of work and you guys can't expect us to work. "

LordGeovanni1 votes

Ha Put the same thing another 2 times but substitute stealth for range one time and Stealth for Movement speed / mobility another and you got why Bruisers are so trash and people in solo que pick a ranged carry in every position except jungle where they pick an ad assassin and never group.

FrostQueensPlane14 votes

Someone on riot's balance team has to play Khazix, there is absolutely no justification for giving Khazix, who was one of the strongest duskblade users before the "nerfs" the largest amount of "compensation". All of these stealth champions are just broken now that vision has been nerfed into the gutter and go against everything meddler the janna player or ghost "i play video games trust me" crawler has ever said about muh player agency.

Nobody enjoys getting one shot from the middle of the lane, nobody enjoys this type of gameplay riot, do you understand. Do you understand that khazix literally has a permanent rengar ult? That if he touches you from stealth you just die? You spent a year and a thousand hours to try and balance rengar's ult when khazix has it permanently on. Why is it so hard for you I just don't get it.

WitchQueen Annie2 votes

they're probably gonna raise his Q damage further if they nerf the stealth though (which I wouldn't necessarily oppose)...

Cenutrio 5 rabos5 votes

Why? He's broken. They need to nerf the 1.5 s (I think it is) stealth from his passive, he shouldn't be able to cross the enemy jungle in 1 go full stealth.

Zed genius14 votes

I mean having the ability to stealth through the enemy jungle and be behind the enemy lines to make a pick sounds cool and all, but srsly that champion is retarded, he is permanently stealth, does a million damage, has a reliable escape, is decently tanky with red smite,cleaver and tabis like if he gets ahead there's really not much you can do, even when grouping that is supposed to counter assassins... well it doesn't counter kha'zix unless on very specific teamcomps. There is a reason jungle smurfs spam kha'zix to gain quick elo lol

S V 11 votes

I just want riot to bring back Red Wards and remove the cap on the stacking mechanic.

Automated Riven10 votes

Red wards are what we have now. Pink wards are what we deserve.

Danjeng2 votes

Pink Wards are the unsung hero.

But who are we kidding? People still gonna complain that they got to spend a bit of gold for vision.

Automated Riven1 votes

To be fair. People will just complain because khazix is broken because they would refuse to buy said vision to counter him.

GripaAviara2 votes

Vision does not really counter him. He is super oppressive to jungle against. If Kha decides he wants any of your camps, all you can do is let him take them. You can't contest him.

Melledoneus1 votes

I miss pink wards.

It used to be the counter to Kennen ult.

Automated Riven1 votes

Don't forget nidalee spears

Nyarlathοtep9 votes

I would advice you to refrain from complaining about his e reset. It's what enables him to function as an assassin. Assassins need a way to get in and go out (usually if they get a kill)

Wukong Airlines5 votes

and stealth 3-4 times, or kill 3 at least?

Nyarlathοtep2 votes

As acheron pointed out, he can only go twice invisible. And the passive invisibility works only out of combat.

Hellmaximus13 votes

He can engage with bush stealth because of the 1.5 seconds invisibility (1 proc) than ultimate (2 procs) and than ultimate again (3 procs) than your e out into a bush and reapply duskblade (4th proc) however people usually die with the 2nd to 3rd proc so that doesn't even matter.

Not only do you get the bonus damage from duskblade, but also from kha's passive as well.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

And then you realize that engaging through bushes is not reliable since there is a high chance its warded. Or the fact that he might still not even be able to get into melee range from the bush.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Who cares if its warded? YOU ARE STEALTHED. You know what wards do mid lane against K6? Absolutely nothing since he can go between every bush in the area without ever destealthing meaning he can go from his wolf camp to the middle of mid lane without anyone knowing any better since he just walks through all 5 bushes without ever leaving stealth.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

You can still she the particle effects when he goes invisible. So even then the wards can help.

LordGeovanni1 votes

No no no. Kha Zix can engage with his R stealth passive But you have to use E at the same time as you will only get a1/4 way into a lane before getting spotted even before if its warded and your target starts to run away making the way longer thus stealth start to the fight less viable which the enemy needs to be standing near an unwarded brush for that to even have a chance at happening Aka being stupid cause Kha zix is in a game. and then to do anything that the target must be squishy Most of whom are ranged and have no reason to be near a bush Kha Zix must then have Duskblade for the procs you talk about Upgraded R for The bush walking passive Upgraded E for the jump out Or the Jump to go anywhere generally And upgraded Q because without it Any ranged champion can out walk you and its even harder if they have cc hard or soft or Mobility Dash or movement speed like Ashe MissFortune Caitlyn KogMaw Orianna etc because of the general mobility they get infight from item 3086 and item 3113 unlike item 3142 whos Movement speed goes away the second they get in combat.

Daddy Tie Me Up10 votes

Do they now? Do they really need that? Rengar has no escape after utling, Katarina cant escape anywhere if there are no enemies and they function just okay

Nyarlathοtep5 votes

Rengar is a mix of a figher with the burst of an assassin. He is something akin to diana. Big ass burst but no real way to get out of the fray. As for whether he needs it or not, well it depends on riot's perspective on what is an assassin in the first place.

Oh and kata can get away. If she gets a kill (or picks up a dagger) her e gain a big ass refund on the cd.

ULTRAF0RCE3 votes

Katarina can jump to allies

Hellmaximus12 votes

And rengar has a CC-Immunity that also breaks him out of CC and restore any hp he lost during the engage.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Both of these are easy excapes Katarina also has W with a speed boost and Rengars empowered w has a speed boost to help them run away.

Reaper Claws1 votes

So how about you advocate for Riot to add escape method for those champions instead of taking away Kha'zix's?

Daddy Tie Me Up2 votes

No. Kha needs nerf zed needs nerf talon needs nerf rengar needs nerf literally all ad assasins need nerfs and so does fizz. Fucking stop even trying to say bullshit like this or riot will actually buff them more.

Reaper Claws1 votes

Seems like you don't like assassins? Please tell me why.

Daddy Tie Me Up1 votes

No, its not like I dont like assasins. I just dont like how zed kha and fizz are sitting on top win rates in meta that counters them in team comps that are garbage for them. If Zed has 54% win rate in meta where janna lulu soraka are most picked supports, tanks are best top laners, something is wrong. And on top of that Zed is AD assasin mid. He should never EVER have #1 win rate.

LordGeovanni1 votes

I Dont believe that assassins should have easy excapes after they kill some one or otherwise. The advantage for having an assassins is that they can quickly jump in and kill some one squishy the advantage of them doing that should be then that they now outnumber the enemy with their team and they took down a priority target on the enemy team crippling them. Not that an assassin can jump inbetween 4 champions kill the squishy one and Jump away and you cant do anything if you didnt react in half a second or have hard cc. Now something else about that is that this type of healthy assassin gameplay cant happen unless 1 mages lose a ton of their base scaling hp its ridiculous you see mages reach 3k hp with rod of ages and over 3k with rod and another item. Adcs also need lower base hp they are right near mages in that need to lose Movement speed building their damage items need lower dps and over all burst. Mages have easy 2 items to 3 k hp while tanks who are supposed to scale with hp have to build 3 at level 18 to reach3k 2 if one is warmogs. Its not that its an unreal goal its that what should be tanks neiche other classes that are supposed to be squishy naturally reach the same place because they start off in a better place. I dont think assassins need nerfs in the damage department i think they need Reblanceing so that its up front damage and burst but that it has much longer cooldowns and so that its windowed. Same with Adcs and burst mages

LordGeovanni1 votes

Katarina excapes with W or e on an ally champion Rengar Excapes with W if you arent brain dead and remember his W exists.

Imperial Japan1 votes

{quoted}

I would advice you to refrain from complaining about his e reset. It's what enables him to function as an assassin. Assassins need a way to get in and go out (usually if they get a kill)

Rengar?

Nyarlathοtep

Again, he is more of an fighter than an assassin. Learn to read the rest of the comments.

Imperial Japan2 votes

{quoted}

Again, he is more of an fighter than an assassin. Learn to read the rest of the comments.

lol. Rengar is 100% a diving assassin.

Nyarlathοtep

sigh I dont like doing this but w/e.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Assassin_champion

Imperial Japan1 votes

{quoted}

sigh I dont like doing this but w/e.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Assassin_champion

sigh I don't like doing this but w/e.

Slayers (formerly "Assassins") are fragile but agile damage-focused melee champions that look to swiftly take down their targets. Assassins specialize in infiltrating enemy lines with their unrivaled mobility to quickly dispatch high-priority targets. Due to their mostly melee nature, Assassins must put them themselves into dangerous positions in order to execute their targets. Luckily, they often have defensive tricks up their sleeves that, if used cleverly, allow them to effectively avoid incoming damage.

Clearly fits the description of Rengar 100%. He's 1. Fragile 2. Damage-focused melee champion 3. That's used to swiftly take down targets. He's clearly a slayer.

Assassins specialize in

  1. Infiltrating enemy lines (Rengar does so)
  2. With unrivaled mobility (Rengar R)
  3. Must put themselves into dangerous position in order to execute their targets (the epitome of Rengar)
  4. They often have defensive tricks up their sleeves that, if used cleverly, allow them to effectively avoid incoming damage (Rengar W)

The description of the assassin class clearly entails Rengar so get off your high horse.

Nyarlathοtep

I was mostly talking about the fact that rengar is not included in the assassin list. But w/e. Some people are just way to stubborn to accept the truth. Btw, i just realised. There is no such thing as a diving assassin. Every assassin is a diving one.

Imperial Japan1 votes

{quoted}

I was mostly talking about the fact that rengar is not included in the assassin list. But w/e. Some people are just way to stubborn to accept the truth. Btw, i just realised. There is no such thing as a diving assassin. Every assassin is a diving one.

Yes obviously he's not included in the "assassin list" but the description of an "assassin" entailed by the fucking wiki you sent me is literally describing what Rengar is. And yes, there are "diving assassins" because a diving assassin means that it CAN NOT GET OUT. Le blanc can W out, Fizz has more than one mobility spell, Khazix has a jump reset, etc, etc, etc. You need some brain cells my friend.

Reaper Claws1 votes

Don't know why everyone is downvoting, his e reset is what allows him to do cool stuff like double jumping. His e isn't the problem, it's the r.

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

Indeed. Hell the problematic part is his passive r not the active.

Reaper Claws1 votes

I am gonna be pissed if they remove the e reset, it was such a cool ability.

Thefrostyviking8 votes

I also find his ability to cross so much of the map while maintaining invisibility a nightmare to deal with, it frigging outperforms shaco at times and he is supposed to be the specialist.

WitchQueen Annie5 votes

I've played him and he's not a face-roll champ. You actually have to calculate and really know your damage output/limit at any one point to be relevant (and it can vary on a pin's balance based on what items you have or what masteries you run).

If you're behind you're absolutely useless.

If you're ahead, its anything but an auto-win. You still have calculate everything and try to outplay/time everything.

sKz Aaron D5 votes

I played a few games of him immediately after the duskblade nerf and I felt like he was an absolute face-roll champ. I walked into the enemy jungle with impunity, and murdered anyone I found. After I had a few kills from solo killing the enemy jungler, I just dove bot lane over and over again, one shotting the squishy adc/support. The cooldown on your Q is low enough that you really don't need to be 100% calculated about your damage. Just auto, Q, auto, - if they aren't dead yet, auto, Q. You have two engage/chase tools, plus your flash. And most bot laners don't have an escape without flash.

I've mained support for four years, Kha'Zix was the easiest first time jungle champ I've ever played.

Retired Skater4 votes

That's why 1-2 weeks before every season ends you see nothing but 20-0-1 Kha'Zix boosters in silver/gold. He's ridiculously easy to climb with.

Daddy Ants2 votes

https://gyazo.com/9c204f8d5eedbfcfba809215cea8ccb5

Also shit like this is going unnoticed?

52% win rate with a 45% pick rate?

Feel Apathy1 votes

It already had a 10 seconds CD for each brush, and its duration is reduced by about 20-33% whenever he leaves said brush.

Not saying he's not OP or anything related, but that's the wrong way to nerf him.

Wukong Airlines8 votes

You have the right to say he's OP. he's the top jungler on op.gg http://eune.op.gg/champion/statistics

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