Theory Crafting: Kindred Bot

Tusutaki··4 votes·1,094 views

Kindred bot? As in her being ADC? Why? Isnt she designed to be jungle?

As some already know from experience of how much of a pain it is to play Kindred jungle let alone playing her effectively. It's difficult to get her to scale via obtaining marks from enemy camps and marked champions as her ganking potential are somewhat low. And with the removal of her sustain she would have to back constantly. Without her marks and her first completed jungle item she poses little to no threat. Not only that but picking her as jungler can really hurt your team comp if they dont make up for what she lacks.

So I decided to try her out bot. AD reds, Lifesteal Quints, Vampirism, and Warlords for safety. However to make things interesting, I decided to keep smite on her to secure marks and always having presence for drag. And the results so far has been on my favor. One of the best things I found about Kindred bot is that I can mark the ADC or Supp. Essentially meaning I am able to obtain marks on a consistent basis. Got marked ADC? Switch to Supp and continue the pattern. Here is my build so far.

BotRK > Hurricane > Blood Thirster > Rageblade > Mortal Reminder > Beserker Boots

Why Mortal Reminder? Because it works great with your ult as it makes your heals to enemies be less so you'll always recover more health than they would putting you at an advantage. Now since you have smite, you can always replace one of the above items with Bloodrazer with Skirmisher but I wouldnt suggest rushing it as first item.

I like Kindred but I find her power as a jungler be extremely weak. If she's behind then she's virtually nonexistent. As her being bot/ADC I find her being able to realize her full potential. One game I gotten her passive to deal 25% of their current health.

What do you guys think? Any suggestions to make Kindred ADC better? Im not an ADC main either and me doing well with her says a lot to me.

10 Comments

hater free zone1 votes

Kindred can fill the bot adc role, since she was designed with ADC in mind. However at the same time, she was developed to separate the idea of an ADC champion being exclusively a bot lane role. Graves and Quinn are other examples of champions who's design has allowed them to break the bot lane adc mold and allow them to function in a separate role.

Kindred ADC works, but it under utilizes her passive which is a big part of her late game damage, especially if you can't secure your kills in the early game.

TricolorStar1 votes

I've seen Kindred ADC work. You have to have a competent support and remember to rotate your marks between the supp and ADC, and remember to pick up any that are in your side of the jg.

Taliyah Rocks1 votes

It works, it's a little under subpar, and her passive scare people away because she'll scale ''less'' which is compltetly wrong since lane Kindred will have access to more gold which in turns equal more items. Her passive just allows her to keep up with other adcs while having less gold from the jungle.

She has some really good burst and i would suggest taking thunderlords to push an early advantage. She will win most early trades, but lack ranged pokes, although her W is nice to zone people out or farm for you.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

Getting your marks early game relies on being super aggressive and actually getting those kills (and marks) though.

It seems a lot more feast or famine than jungling, with the emphasis on famine. If you get behind and can't actually kill your laner, you'll get no stacks and thus be almost useless.

Honestly, Kindred jungle isn't as bad as you make it out to be. She's a fairly tanky, low range, fairly sticky marksmen. Getting marks from counterjungling is a piece of cake considering you don't go across a ward, get collapsed on, or if the enemy jungler is a good duelist.

Early game Kindred is very strong against most melees unless they can stick to her. Her early game damage is decent, and it becomes very good when combined with kiting. If she can't kite, she'll probably lose due to being squishy, but if she's skilled enough and the match up allows it, she can outduel many junglers. Early game, she is much less mark reliant, and she's not as item reliant as you would make her out to be.

Her ganks aren't too bad because of her ranged slow and shortened Q CD. She's also ranged, which means she can technically engage on you from a lot further away than a Wukong or Jarvan.

Tusutaki1 votes

It seems a lot more feast or famine than jungling, with the emphasis on famine. If you get behind and can't actually kill your laner, you'll get no stacks and thus be almost useless.

I wouldnt say so because you have more consistent source of gold for farming minions. Whereas in the early game in the jung she has a hard time staying in without backing after 3 or 4 camps and since she no longer has her sustain you're risking yourself roaming and counter jungling for said marks.

And there are plenty of champs that does jungling better. I want her to be good in the jung but countless times I have found little to no success. When I tried her out in bot lane I found her to be much better. It may be personal preference but I suggest for you to try it out.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

I wouldnt say so because you have more consistent source of gold for farming minions. Whereas in the early game in the jung she has a hard time staying in without backing after 3 or 4 camps and since she no longer has her sustain you're risking yourself roaming and counter jungling for said marks.

And there are plenty of champs that does jungling better. I want her to be good in the jung but countless times I have found little to no success. When I tried her out in bot lane I found her to be much better. It may be personal preference but I suggest for you to try it out.

Yeah, but Kindred scales shit off gold. Her damage is entirely from her passive - her items just let her use that passive either more often, more safely, or make it more effective (armor pen) - and a few onhit items.

Then back after 3-4 camps. That's Blue, Gromp, Wolves, Red, then Scuttle if it's up. I've played Kindred jungle and it's really not as bad as you say or think. Once you get Bloodrazor camps are no longer anywhere near a threat, Recurve Bow + kiting already means you take low damage from them.

I've played her jungle and done extremely well at times. Even when behind I could farm camps, invade while their jungler is ganking, and assist lanes with my base damages that aren't gold reliant. It's not a difficult thing to get 4 marks by ~10 minutes, not if you play it well.

AzureDragoon1 votes

So, on items: I like BotRK, especially since the buffs in 7.5. Runaan's is the Auto-attack reliant ADC standard zeal item (unless you're Vayne). 'zerker boots third item, no surprises. Mortal reminder is pretty standard unless you're facing a really tanky team comp lacking heals.

I do agree that Kindred is a champion who can get away with relying less on Critical hit like the average auto-attacker Marksman (not that Caitlyn style Double zeal build would be terrible, I just don't think it's the only option for a bot lane Kindred), and their abilities don't scale particularly high with items.

Let's get the one I really want to disagree with:

item 3124. I don't like this for a number of reasons. Most prominently: the AP is completely wasted on Kindred. They get nothing from it. So unless you've got 1725 gold to complete the item after getting your Pickaxe and Recurve Bow, that Blasting Rod provides absolutely nothing power wise to Kindred. And I don't think 3600 gold for a 73% Attack Speed and 53 AD and double procs on every other hit after hitting 6 times is worth that time/gold investment. I would much rather have either another crit item (2nd Zeal item, IE, or even an Essence Reaver), a Wit's End ), or even Cleaver or Frozen Mallet for some more Utility. Maybe a Trinity Edge, but Kindred has rather low base damage. Still, any of these options are in my view are better than Guinsoo's on Kindred.

item 3072 This is not a bad choice, and I like the idea of a life steal heavy Kindred, especially if you go Fervor or Thunderlords combined with my above suggestion. I also think it's not required or even core item, and this is definitely an item that can be swapped out depending on the match up. Staying with the Lifesteal theme, I'd make an argument for Death's Dance as well, simply for the dueling and CDR. Especially if you're playing around Kindred's use of R to contest objectives. Obviously, Mercurial Scimitar for CC mage heavy comps. IE or ER would also be viable here I think. I'd also argue Ghostblade here as well. Not saying not to go BT, but there are options as needed.

Lane strategy, yea, definitely got to play it as a Kill-Lane with some jungle invading after pushing. The idea of still keeping smite for assisting in counter jungling and smite fights, it's not terrible, but I also rather keep that extra lane safety of Heal

Tusutaki1 votes

I would much rather have either another crit item (2nd Zeal item, IE, or even an Essence Reaver), a Wit's End ), or even Cleaver or Frozen Mallet for some more Utility. Maybe a Trinity Edge, but Kindred has rather low base damage. Still, any of these options are in my view are better than Guinsoo's on Kindred.

Ive been debating on Cleaver but the reason why I like Rageblade so much on her is that double procs could save a teamfight. With my ult making sure I live long enough to get the full stacks, it makes all the healing my ult does to the enemy team redundant. Though I can see where youre coming from. Perhaps Red Bloodrazor in place of Rageblade would be a better option? If anything, I do not like building bloodrazor first for botrk provides more value at the time.

I'd make an argument for Death's Dance as well, simply for the dueling and CDR.

Unless I am mistaken, Kindred's passive apply lifesteal, right? Cause I know champs like Aatrox's blood price doesnt and I dont see anything that it does or doesnt.

IE or ER would also be viable here I think. I'd also argue Ghostblade here as well. Not saying not to go BT, but there are options as needed.

I can see why going IE but with the current build especially if I build blood razer over rageblade, then I wouldnt get much value off of IE. ER sounds likes a decent option however I dont find Kindred to have any mana issues. Though it does give me an idea to run Manamune and ER combo. Ghostblade wont provide much value unless im running lethal runes and more armor pen items.

The idea of still keeping smite for assisting in counter jungling and smite fights, it's not terrible, but I also rather keep that extra lane safety of Heal

It comes down to person preference as neither is a bad idea. Plus having smite allows me to build jung items which can give me a slow, vision, or damage reduction so do keep that in mind.

AzureDragoon1 votes

Regarding Death's Dance item 3812 : Kindreds' Passive and basic abilities deal Physical damage (Similarly, all of their basic abilities scale off of AD, albeit fairly minor amounts, 20% AD for Q and E and 40% for W, which combines with Attack Speed), as well as the Physical portion of BotRK's on-hit.

This leads to an important note of BT vs DD The Innate portion of Mark of the Kindred (+X% per mark earned) is considered an On-Hit Physical effect, so it's damage does NOT get factored in standard Lifesteal calculations.

This is important to note, because only AD and AD buffs get calculated for standard Life Steal and Critical (Such as Fervor of Battle, which switched from On-Hit to +AD in preseason 7, and the Sheen Proc from Sheen/Trinity Force do, because this directly buffs the base AD value of the champion).

Linna Excel1 votes

IMO she'd work better in the mid because of her passive than bot, but technically she is an ADC.

More from Gameplay

More by Tusutaki