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Doran Shield. An item that needs to be addressed STILL

Tusutaki··116 votes·5,979 views

> Stats > +80 health > +6 health regen per 5 seconds > Passive > Unique: Blocks 8 damage from single target attacks and spells from champions. > > Doran's Shield. An early defensive version of the Doran's items. However, it absolutely fails in the defensive apartment. From other starting items like Flask, Cloth, or Ruby + pots, there is absolutely no reason to buy a Doran's Shield. Even on manaless champions. Flask gives you 450 health and 150 mana in 36 seconds. Ruby + 2 gives you 450 health with a faster power spike of obtaining Sunfire for example. Cloth + 4 gives you 600 + 15 more armor and also allows you to power spike faster. Doran's Shield + 1? Measly 230 health with 1.2hp per sec. You might be saying to yourself "But the passive! It blocks 8 damage!" > > This is one of the biggest issues I want to bring up. The passive, blocking only single target attacks and spells, blocking 8 damage. That doesnt sound so bad right? Well considering the fact that it blocks 8 damage BEFORE resistances apply. Lets put it like this for example. > > 100 ad vs 100 armor > 100 armor = 50% dmg reduction > 50 damage is taken > > VS > > 100 ad vs 100 armor + Doran's Shield passive > 100 - 8 = 92 > 50% of 92 is 46 > 46 Damage is taken > > Out of all of the Doran's items, Shield is the only one that loses it's value the longer the game goes. Or the more you gain armor to put it simply. Whereas Blade's 3% lifesteal can be stacked with other lifesteal items and can be used in conjunction with other AD items and Ring has a flat Mana Regen and it's passive, Shield fails in comparison. Also note that Shield also blocks only autos and targeted damage, meaning AOE damage like Pantheon's E gets a free ticket. > > So why has this item been ignored for so long? Note that this item didnt even block targeted spell damage for the longest item either. Shield has been a glorified noob trap item for over a year. So what needs to be fixed then? Simple. Have it block 8 damage AFTER resistances and maybe half of that from AOE attacks. Make it actually worth spending 460 gold. Or buff the health regen. Or something! Otherwise there's absolutely no reason to buy it. Not when there are other, better options around.

I raised this concern last year and with the introduction to S6, its still in the same terrible spot.

For those that is going to complain about why im using 100 dmg/armor as an example, because some has in previous threads for some reason, i'll even go further using starting average armor for top laners. Assuming 25 armor is the average. Using 100 damage because majority of single target abilities deals 100 damage or as close as possible.

Dorans Shield start (-8 damage from autos and targeted abilities) 100-8 = 92 92/(100+25) = 73 damage

Cloth Start (+15 armor) 100 damage 100/(100+40) = 71 damage

"But muh autos!" Assuming 70 dmg is the average for autos thats including AD runes

Dorans Shield Start 70-8 62/(100+25) = 49 damage

Cloth Start 70/(100+40) = 50 damage

So in mathematical conclusion, Dorans Shield is terrible in every way. With literally a one damage difference for autos where Shield is better. So the only literal way for Shield to outperform cloth start is if they deal less than 70 damage in both autos and abilities which almost never happens and if it does, Shield drops off within the first couple levels. Using 50 damage the difference becomes 2. How clear do I have to make it that Shield needs to be addressed?

68 Comments

MrWasjig25 votes

Whenever I'm against someone where Doran's Shield would SEEM like a good idea, I take Cloth in it's place. Shield is just really MEH right now.

Critmaster Garen12 votes

{quoted}

Whenever I'm against someone where Doran's Shield would SEEM like a good idea, I take Cloth in it's place. Shield is just really MEH right now.

because you sacrifice the sustain.

dorans blade has lifesteal dorans ring costs 400 gold, leaving enough gold for 2 pots

the defense off dorans shield + the sustain off 1 pot cant compare to the equivalent of what youre getting from cloth + 5 pots. even against ap champs.

maybe another route would be to add a mini malphite shield to the item that regenerates after 10 seconds out of combat. something small like 50 hp. and increasing the base hp to 100 from 80 instead of the 8 blocked damage.

this would make the item equally useful against ap champions and ranged poke in lane.

It Hertz When IP4 votes

Like that passive from the old Defense mastery tree?

LordKentravyon7 votes

Ya it sounds like that, except not trash

venomous frost12 votes

its fine if you are melee vs oppressive ranged, also, why would you calculate the damage reduction 100 armor vs 100 ad, when you have like 30armor and 60ad level 1, the shield is supposed to defend you the first couple of levels. your calculation makes no sense.

also, how can you say 3% LS is better, you take shield when you are planning on getting dominated early levels, LS wont help when all you can do is lasthit under tower.

Spoofghoul8 votes

Dorans shield

4000 gold 800 health 600% hp regen Blocks 80 damage from any source after resistances

OneSmoothDude2 votes

Doran was a badass motherfucker.

Slamurai Jack6 votes

Doran's shield does have 1 thing going for it over Cloth 4. Doran's shield is a much bigger deterrant to all ins. All those extra potions that come with the Cloth 4 don't mean shit if you die while they're healing you or have to disengage and take a bunch of free damage every trade. This is especially relevant now that ignite top lane is becoming popular again. Doran's shield, especially on someone with natural sustain and/or damage mitigation like Shen, Garen, Mundo, Nasus, Renekton, etc. makes them really, really fucking hard to kill.

Tusutaki6 votes

Not really. a single pot during an all in provides better numbers than shield. Not to mention that the only time you should all in is when they're at low enough health. When you're at low health, which scenario would you rather choose? Waiting over a minute to recover 150 health via shield or wait 12 seconds via pot?

Also remember that shield blocks 8 damage BEFORE resistances are applied rather than AFTER. Meaning in reality, the more resistances you have, the less value you get from shield. That 8 blocked damage becomes 5 or less and becomes less the longer the game goes.

Slamurai Jack2 votes

It's not about the healing, it's about taking less damage in trades. Let's say you're laning against a Yasuo, as my lane opponents often are. All of Yasuo's damage is single target, meaning 8 less damage every single time I hit you, whether it's with an auto, Q, or an E. During an extended trade, shield can block upwards of 40-50 damage, which, if you're trading back, is an extremely significant amount of health. Taking less damage is preferable to sustain in every possible situation, which is why Nasus builds more defense instead of a item 3072 even though the item is theoretically amazing on him since his Q stacks apply to lifesteal. Given how much damage minions do early game, being able to stand your ground in early trades without fear of being all inned and dying is an enormous advantage and completely changes how you can play the lane. Yes, cloth 4 does tend to give you more sustain overall compared to shield. But shield gives you far more control over the lane since you can actually afford to stand and fight. Cloth 4 doesn't do shit if I can just force you off your minion wave with the threat of an all in every time you try to CS.

Not coincidentally, the fact that taking less damage in trades is so powerful early game is largely why longsword 3 pot is such a bad item start in most situations. It gives you no sustain whenever you aren't chugging a potion, gives you no defense against your laner or minion aggro, gives you no extra health for an early all in, and all for only a measly 2 AD over Doran's shield. Every team I see a Renekton or Garen start longsword against someone who isn't a pushover, I know they're gonna get rekt. Literally the only time longsword 3 pot is a good start is if the enemy laner can't possibly beat you early and you just want a tiny bit of extra damage.

Ahntye1 votes

I'm pretty sure that Nasus doesn't build Bloodthirster normally because his kit has natural lifesteal, and with the lack of most of his damage outside of his q, he doesn't have enough sustained damage to make use of the extra lifesteal before dying, a problem that building more tank solves... -w-

On another note, another reason longsword 3 pot can be a good start is if you already have sustain, making the lifesteal from doran's blade less appealing in exchange for the early damage that can be easily built into a full item.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Bloodthirster Nasus is honestly pretty hilarious if you've already gotten your Core Items (i.e. Iceborn Gauntlet and Spirit Visage) and you are already ahead.

It's definitely a "win-more" option, but that doesn't make it any less funny to restore 500+ HP every 2.4 seconds when hitting squishy targets while having massive resistances.

Phuc Dat Bich5 votes

Yeah item 1054 need a buff but for some reason riot afraid to buff it

We can only hope that before season 6 riot would have fix those 3 items

item 3068 item 1054 item 3111

Critmaster Garen4 votes

all they need to add is this

Unique passive (melee only): Blocks 10% of the damage from ranged basic attacks

RisenDarkKnight10 votes

No that would scale too well. 8 damage is more than 10% in the early game, if it is calculated after armor. 10% off a late game crit would be worth way more than 450 gold.

Critmaster Garen4 votes

{quoted}

No that would scale too well. 8 damage is more than 10% in the early game, if it is calculated after armor. 10% off a late game crit would be worth way more than 450 gold.

fine, then make it another 5 damage blocked from ranged attacks, and have both values applied after armor.

dont forget that ranged carries got 5 ad to cs better. so there shouldnt be a problem adding this to dorans, as making them better lane bullies wasnt the intention.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Still salty ranged ADCs got more AD to cs better but no compensation was given to AP mids for the loss of spellblade.

MohawkBird1 votes

You mean a whole 2 magic damage on your autos? You can get that from the first mastery in the cunning tree. That's a pointless thing to complain over.

Ultraboomer1 votes

I fail to see how ap mids lost spellblade. consider these 4 things. sheen is a sword, spellblade on sheen is physical damage to begin with, midlane ap carries still have lich bane which should be a better scaling spellblade for them anyways, and mages right now are complaining about the lack of cdr, but they just added cdr to the magic spellblade item. I am not saying that trinity shouldn't give AP, because I think it should even though I ca't see a place to fit it in right now. What I am saying is that AP carry champs haven't lost spellblade. at most they lost the use of iceborn gauntlet as a semi-slot-efficient item and got some new coveted cdr on lich bane. as far as putting ap on trinity think the best option would be to remove zeal and put on an AS/AP item that could also build into nashor's tooth.

Fefnil1 votes

He was talking about the mastery that gave you 5% ap magic damage on hit.

MohawkBird1 votes

I don't think it's worth taking a whole item slot for 10% damage off of crits and a measely 80 health. You get more damage reduction from an armor item or something like Randuin's putting in it's place. Don't know what's the point of judging a starting item by what it do late game, because by late game you would have sold it anyways. It's like keeping a Doran's Ring because you like the mana on kill passive, even though you could just buy a better mana sustain item in it's place and not waste an item slot.

LordGeovanni1 votes

item 3046

AL0002 votes

i agreed... early damage reduced shield should be for melee only against ranger... how fun is it playing against ranger as top? (or other lanes?)

Ser Garland2 votes

You guys do realize that Doran's shield is in the position of being Over Powered with any such buff. If anything we should incentivize not building cloth 4

CasterGilgamesh2 votes

how?

Dengeden2 votes

For such a well thought out thread, it surprises me that you don't know that mana-less assassins love(d) that item. Also, Mundo.

Champion Skin1 votes

Well then again what else would you except Mundo to get? Doran's blade? Doran's ring? Flask? Those are all rather bad The only other options are cloth armor/boots/ruby crystal + potions (though ruby crystal was rather bad early game and still kind of is as unless you get 100-0 a potion is about as strong as a ruby crystal for a lot less gold.. but it is less bad now with potions being more expensive)

One way to make it more attractive on tanks is to make the block scale... and the way to do that is to make the block after resistances (every 100 armor/MR would increase the block by 8)

Salt the Womb2 votes

You have to be very careful with Doran's Shield. If you make it too appealing sustain-wise (or even adding bonus armor on top of what it is) can lead to a bad place where not only beefy tanks or fighters pick this item up, but anyone that wants to simply have a farming stalemate lane. Let's not forget when Doran's Shield was even an optimal ADC, Support, Top and even some Mid starting item.

Champion Skin1 votes

Well you could at least make it scale better... by making the block after resistances... as this will make the block scale with resistances Then it would reduce the damage taken by +8 for every 100 armor/MR

Examples you take 100 damage Pre resistances block 100-8 = 92

100 armor reduces the damage to (50% reduction) 50-8 block = 42 (this is the same as having 16 block pre-resistance 100-16(block)=84 84/2 (armor) = 42)

The worse abuse cases I can think of are Rammus and Leona (resistance steroids)... however I don't really see either of them getting doran's shield (as a support Leona will probably get more use out of relic shield and the extra gold she gets and the sustain she gives to her ADC and Rammus obviously will still have to get the machete/talisman) And even with the block scaling with resistances... it will still probably not be great late game (the only exception might be a low damage DoT that procs a lot of times if it blocks DoTs)

There might be some other abuse cases that I haven't thought of

Feathermane2 votes

It makes you immune to lane harass. Wtf else do you want? Have you tried to auto a dshield Renekton in lane? You are guaranteed to take more damage from the minion aggro you draw than you will ever inflict.

Tusutaki1 votes

It makes you immune to lane harass.

No it doesnt

Wtf else do you want?

An item worth buying.

NommyPancake1 votes

In my opinion, I think Doran's Shield is better than the "newly Crystalline Flask," aka Corrupting Potion.

I will take Doran's Shield over Corrupting Potion, providing if I can manage my mana. ** You generate 72 health in a minute + 80 HP

vs

You have two extra potion (150 x2 = 300)**

Doran's Shield could literally out-sustain the Corrupting Potion after 3 minutes.

Dealth1 votes

But curropting potion is refillable so... oh wait so is doran's sheild lol

NommyPancake1 votes

It's only refillable to up 3, the old "crystalline flask" allows you to buy additionally hp potion.

Generally in top lane, you want to stay there until lv5 before your first buy.

Doran's Shield can help you to generate more hp than the Corrupting Potion can heal, plus 80 hp and additional damage reduction.

After your first buy, it really won't matter that much which early item you started with (I am comparing the potion and Doran's Shield).

Ahntye1 votes

Corrupting Potion has a pretty nice amount of damage in its passive for early trades, so it's honestly fairly strong. Corrupting Potion's strength lies in increasing the damage you output during trades while you heal, thus reducing the damage you take, like a doran's shield that gives damage.

NommyPancake1 votes

That "nice amount of damage" in its passive is not the reason why we should get it.

It's the sustain. If we want the damage, go for either Doran's Blade or Doran's Ring.

The "New Crystalline Flask" looks like a mix between sustain and "a little of damage."

It does some of each, but doesn't excel in neither.

We used to be able to get extra potions in addition to flask, now we can't.

Ralanr1 votes

Isn't a big problem with Doran's shield that if you buff it then supports may abuse it?

Tusutaki1 votes

With how supports rolled in S5 and seeing how S6 is being played, highly unlikely as the support items provides benefits to your adc such as Targons. I mean yeah you could buy it for yourself but then you're also sacrificing utility others would provide.

CasterGilgamesh2 votes

wait why would supports take it over item 3302 it gives gold plus a small heal.8 whole points off autos is not that good compared to gold letting you rush items faster

Ralanr1 votes

I'll admit I'm voicing an issue someone brought up once. I figured it would be relevant.

Biffolo1 votes

Supports were abusing the fuck out of it last season. The lane pressure you could get from it got your adc ahead, which is more valuable. Ralanr is right, if it's good, supports will take it and smash lanes with it.

Tusutaki1 votes

No they werent at all. S3 maybe when Shield was objectively the best starting item when it gave a lot of health, armor, and regen. No supports built Shield in the past two seasons.

Support items are there for a reason as it brings a lot of utility to your lane.

Biffolo1 votes

I still count this as season 5, and I thought it was early season 4 where it happened, although it may have been preseason. It WAS after support items existed though.

Dominick Destine1 votes

How about make the -8 damage apply to minion strikes as well?

Steelflame1 votes

Then you have to have it or you lose lane. Back when minion damage blocking was a big thing, you could reduce them to nearly 0. You would start fights in the minion wave so that the enemy would take full aggro from your wave while you "took" aggro from theirs. They ate like 100-200 from minions damage while you took like 15-30. Seriously made fights unfun in lane.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

Then you have to have it or you lose lane. Back when minion damage blocking was a big thing, you could reduce them to nearly 0. You would start fights in the minion wave so that the enemy would take full aggro from your wave while you "took" aggro from theirs. They ate like 100-200 from minions damage while you took like 15-30. Seriously made fights unfun in lane.

Very well, half effect on minion strikes?

iainB851 votes

I think they should just remove it. As you so aptly pointed out, there is already sustain options in the form of pots, biscuits, and rechargeable potions. Doran's Shield just doesn't have a place.

If you make it better than pot sustain options than lanes are going to result in a boring, farming stalemate again. Pots are a healthier mechanic because they have charges and force you to back eventually.

BattleBalladeer1 votes

Its way too much of a niche atm. I've found one use for it.

Trundle + item 1054's damage completely negates all of Shaco in a top lane matchup for 3-5 levels.

Thats all I got.

SlashStriker1 votes

item 2033 you starting item

why would you buy doran items right now? Riot is keeps nerfing these items and never add anything better to them. If you see item history you will notice that items getting nothing but nerfs. Riot hate these items and want to remove them at least is how i see it. One day a doran item would be like this

item 1054 Shield 10 hp 1 hp / 10 blocks 1 damage from enemy champions cost 500 gold

you dont believe me? item 1083 Cull 5 AD 3 health per hit crappy gold award passive. Instead build it into something you sell it cause starting items are not suppose to be upgraded into something useful late game cause you know we already gave money for this thing and now we have to sell it. Whats the point?

I was always saying that doran items should be build into something that includes the Cull cause its absolutely the same like Vamp Scepter but instead you sell this item and get nothing out of it

I like corruption potion much better now. It benefits me from early to late game and i feel completely fine selling it. Altho i dunno what to get on manaless champions. Stuff kinda new or there isnt a starting item for manaless champs

Tusutaki1 votes

bumping for update on my op

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