We don't want players to grind

Ecodeath·Aug 6, 2015·298 votes·9,374 views

Yet you are forced to use 50k ip on runes to not lose lane

100 Comments

Fed Like ObelixAug 6, 201532 votes

Well, you can start with way less, but if you want to be able to adapt your runes to most situations, then, yes, you need to spend a shitload of IP on it. I don't like the runes system. League has a steep learning curve and making the game even harder for new players doesn't really make sense.

Rew711Aug 7, 20152 votes

This can be also said for champions. I know, however, that you more than likely are not going to want all of them. But just to get the ones you'd want takes about a week of playing.

Now, I fault myself on this, but I got a lot of 7 week bans when I started League. Mostly due to it never reseting and even after a month of no AFK, that one AFK would always ban me for a whole week. So, that's about 7,000 IP I could had got in that week, gone. I also want to say that I actually like playing as more than just 1 specific character. Imagine if your playing just Normals and you are playing for fun. You're more than likely going to be just playing as whoever.

There are also downsides to playing in ARAM, Dominion, and Twisted Treeline. Due to the small amount Riot wants to give in Summoner's Rift, its even less when you play in one of these game modes. The only bonus one of these has is the ARAM skin boost, which gives an automatic 100 IP after the game.

Riot must admit, that with the loss of Rune combiner, getting the smaller more feeble runes are not worth it and majority of that IP could be spent on champions. Speaking of Champions, who else here knows that with 126 champions, there is an obvious growing rate of how much IP you must get? Sure, they reduce a 6300 to a 4800, but they at the same time bring in another 6300 to take its place. That's an obvious extra 1500 IP we must earn, unless its a 3rd new champion, then it doesn't grow (or if its a 3150 to a 1350, then it goes down 300 IP). They are now sitting at almost 8 million IP worth of champions. If I were to win every match from now to 8 million, and play for 70 minutes to get 150 IP, I'd need over 53,000 won games. If I were to play even 10 games a day, that would be 220 days worth.

Now, I'm not going to or able to play 10 games a day. Maybe 5 at most. I don't even think some days I'm able to play. Yet, I'm still grinding for IP.

I say, just open up a sandbox mode, Riot, for the PBE and see what happens. It'd be fun to see what people can do with you game. Imagine:

Hecarim Racing A real area for dodgeball

More ways to make the rift for future games. I for one love being creative, and a sandbox mode that allows you to do what you'd want could give you ideas on what to make next, or not enough force you.

NotPCAug 8, 20152 votes

Yes it really does make sense... b/c new players only learn a little bit at a time. If they are too easily able to climb ranks then they ruin the experience for others.

IcyPepperAug 6, 201527 votes

And only 50-100ish IP per game :3

idokiAug 7, 201531 votes

Well hello there young ~~Summoner~~ guy-who-controls-the-champion-through-spooky-and-unexplained-means, I see you are struggling with gaining Influence Points (or IP like the youngster ~~Summoners~~ guys-who-controls-the-champion-through-spooky-and-unexplained-means say today!). Well, have no troubles no more, Riot Games has the perfect solution for your troubles. Introducing the Influence Point Boost ** https://boost-rankedboost.netdna-ssl.com/file/2015/04/IP_Boost_Worth_LoL.png For only a low price of 290 Riot Points (or RP like the mischievous ~~Summoners~~ guys-who-controls-the-champion-through-spooky-and-unexplained-means call them today!) you can gain **TWICE **the amount of Influence Points for 4 ENTIRE WINS. Absolutely ludicrous I know! Buy Influence Points Boost now!

-Additional fees may apply. Contact your nearest hotdog stand for more information. -Sandbox mode is not included.

JbelsAug 6, 201514 votes

Kinda hate that there are going to be specific matchups in ranked where you'll want a certain set of runes over another but you're fucked if you don't have enough Rune Pages to customize for the occasion

Ariel the CruelAug 6, 20156 votes

I went years without runes and suffered no significant hardship.

Even now, I only have 3 generic pages. and 1 is just a catch-all.

BaconStNinjaAug 6, 20154 votes

But once you gradually begin to acquire runes trying to go back to not using them is fairly difficult.

ChaoticPineconeAug 6, 20151 votes

I dont know. Im not a super high rank or anything, but i rarely notice runes aside from the generic AD for last hitting or AP for damage.

I have 15 rune pages. i have 5 pages for AP Carries - 1. scaling MR blues, 2. scaling CDR blues, 3. mana regen blues, 4. mixed pen reds + scaling MR blues, 5. mixed pen reds + scaling AP blues. I honestly dont notice the difference between any of them. I dont often secure kills with the extra 50 damage from scaling AP runes, i often dont walk away with 50 HP from taking scaling MR.

I also have a page of 20 magic Pen (that i got from Phreak's guide for runes on AP-mage supports) - i dont notice the difference between taking 20 magic pen versus taking a standard AP carry rune page.

CreationFlawAug 6, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I dont know. Im not a super high rank or anything, but i rarely notice runes aside from the generic AD for last hitting or AP for damage.

I have 15 rune pages. i have 5 pages for AP Carries - 1. scaling MR blues, 2. scaling CDR blues, 3. mana regen blues, 4. mixed pen reds + scaling MR blues, 5. mixed pen reds + scaling AP blues. I honestly dont notice the difference between any of them. I dont often secure kills with the extra 50 damage from scaling AP runes, i often dont walk away with 50 HP from taking scaling MR.

I also have a page of 20 magic Pen (that i got from Phreak's guide for runes on AP-mage supports) - i dont notice the difference between taking 20 magic pen versus taking a standard AP carry rune page.

I think it's more that to get those 18 other rune pages you either have to grind 113400 IP, and considering you get 90 IP from the somewhat average game, that takes a long time.

And if you want to spend money... Each rune page is valued at around $5.50 give or take, so 5.5 x 18 = $99. You literally have to spend $100 to get a full 20 pages.

maikokkAug 7, 20152 votes

you say that as if there isnt a 2-for1 rune page sale fairly often.

now that i have 100 champs i just save all my IP for those sales.

BaconStNinjaAug 8, 20152 votes

But to have those 100 champs you would've had to play quite some time. You've played league for at least 2 years or excessively for 1. what of the new players who can barely touch rune pages because of wanting to explore the rest of the game. I thought once I reached level 30 runes would be the a huge factor in my games only to realize that I had no where near enough IP. I've been playing for a year almost and I still find myself with 100 IP left a lot of the time and I personally feel like if riot gave you the 20 (or even 5 or 10) rune pages for free in the beginning it would be a good compensation for the (in-between new and old) players like myself. I would very much like to be able to experiment with rune pages and the IP costs prevent me from doing so.

maikokkAug 7, 20151 votes

also you misvalued the rune pages. if someone wanted to buy 20 pages with RP they wouldnt be doing it 1 at a time...

CreationFlawAug 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

also you misvalued the rune pages. if someone wanted to buy 20 pages with RP they wouldnt be doing it 1 at a time...

Actually, I valued them at the correct price, you're explaining a bundle in which you buy multiple for a lower price, but the price is still high. It's a bargain, but the actual price is $5.50, 590 RP.

maikokkAug 7, 20151 votes

naw, context matters, you were trying to value 18 pages.

HäßlichAug 7, 20156 votes

ITT: Instant Gratification Generation strikes again.

BaconStNinjaAug 6, 20155 votes

Runes are an ip well. You spend all ip on runes, so when you wanna play a new champion you feel like 64 games is too much so you spend rp on champions. It's how a riot makes a lot of their money. I don't see the crappy runes system being removed in the near future unless another, ip well is created. Honestly though Riot I've never bought a champion and I've still spent about $100 on this game.

LuggAug 6, 20155 votes

Well to be fair, you should have plenty of IP for runes just leveling up to 30.

The real grind is trying to rank up from Bronze to Plat or higher. Now that's a grind.

BaunjoAug 6, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Well to be fair, you should have plenty of IP for runes just leveling up to 30.

The real grind is trying to rank up from Bronze to Plat or higher. Now that's a grind.

sorry but most people dont spend alot of money on games. I used almost all of my ip up to level 30 buying champions

i am GluttonyAug 6, 201518 votes

{quoted}

Well to be fair, you should have plenty of IP for runes just leveling up to 30.

The real grind is trying to rank up from Bronze to Plat or higher. Now that's a grind.

Can't play ranked without buying at least 10 champions.. most of which do it with IP.

It needs to go.

LuggAug 6, 20152 votes

True, but I just assumed everyone buys the starter pack since it's a good value.

BoomerangbroAug 6, 20158 votes

Not everyone has the money for that. Having a limited budget, I rather spend money on something tangible or an experience irl than to buy something in game. And the starter pack isn't really a great buy anyway. Sure you can get starter champions, but the ones that youll need cost more IP anyway, so you might as well save your money.

The fact someone has to spend all their IP on runes and champions all at once is boring, and you have to grind through all the games just to get to one point, then have to do it all over again.

Mintymentos NAAug 7, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Not everyone has the money for that. Having a limited budget, I rather spend money on something tangible or an experience irl than to buy something in game. And the starter pack isn't really a great buy anyway. Sure you can get starter champions, but the ones that youll need cost more IP anyway, so you might as well save your money.

The fact someone has to spend all their IP on runes and champions all at once is boring, and you have to grind through all the games just to get to one point, then have to do it all over again.

LOL the starter bundle is 530 rp.. that's five dollars of rp. if you can't afford five dollars you shouldn't even have internet... or a computer for that matter.

NovianArgentAug 7, 20152 votes

perhaps sir, the reason they cannot afford it is one of many reasons. like bills. internet costs, computer maintinence ect. reserve your judgement for other matters.

Mintymentos NAAug 24, 20151 votes

Lol its five dollars and like I said if you can't afford that then you shouldn't have a computer or internet. You need to stop being a failure and get a job.

NovianArgentAug 26, 20152 votes

People who have jobs is what i was referring to. as people without jobs cannot pay their bills. use common sense. as a side note. i DO have a job. I make 10.25 an Hour.

but if i need to spell it out. 5 dollars of RP comes after every single expense including computer and internet. and i know quite a few people who cant spare that kind of money on a game. now please step off your high horse.

BlacknemesistAug 7, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Not everyone has the money for that. Having a limited budget, I rather spend money on something tangible or an experience irl than to buy something in game. And the starter pack isn't really a great buy anyway. Sure you can get starter champions, but the ones that youll need cost more IP anyway, so you might as well save your money.

The fact someone has to spend all their IP on runes and champions all at once is boring, and you have to grind through all the games just to get to one point, then have to do it all over again.

So you don't want/can spend money... But you also don't want to invest time to get IP...

Maybe riot should just give them free to you.

You get what you earn! I always have excess IP and I have 19 rune pages filled so don't give me that crap about IP, all it takes is time. If you don't have time then buy them. If you don't have money WTH are you even doing playing a game like this?!?

BoomerangbroAug 7, 20152 votes

When did I say that I didn't have time? You need to check your reading skills, because I said the GRIND gets boring. I have plenty of time, but to spend 6300 IP on a champ thats not even viable, something needs to give.

LlaniteAug 8, 20152 votes

If "playing the damned game" has become pure grind to you. I'd suggest moving to other game that you really enjoy.

ahferroin7Aug 7, 20152 votes

Aside from the people who don't have the money or just don't want to spend cash on the game, many people may not realize that the starter pack is a good value, or not view it as such when they are starting out. Many new players prefer to start with just one role (sometimes even just one champ) until the get the basics down.

LuggAug 7, 20152 votes

The nice thing about the starter pack is that you get champs to fill every role.

GwingMasterAug 7, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Well to be fair, you should have plenty of IP for runes just leveling up to 30.

The real grind is trying to rank up from Bronze to Plat or higher. Now that's a grind.

unless you're a sad little n00B like i was and wasn't adequately warned against spending precious IP on lvl 1 and 2 runes and are thus STILL grinding to complete my rune pages.

seriously, why are the early level runes even in the game....

ThroeAug 8, 20151 votes

I have an idea, let's give you lower cost runes so solve THIS EXACT scenario!

You buy the lower cost runes to fill out your pages so you're viable and can work on the higher cost ones over time. Logic evades some people - some by lack of divine gift, but some by choice.

moomoomilkUwUAug 7, 20155 votes

Gonna get a lotta hate for this, but imo runes should be removed completely, or be obtained through leveling like masteries. I don't get the point of having an unfair advantage because you bought some stat boosts :/

unskilledplayer1Aug 7, 20152 votes

This is actually a great point. The only thing that separates a level 6 player from a level 30 gold 3 player, other than experience and skill, are goddamn runes. There are still undoubtedly a lot of new-ish players out there who dont really understand how to use runes, as there is like no tutorial or anything, so removing them would reduce this stress and the game wouldn't be so grind-y in that sense.

Mintymentos NAAug 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This is actually a great point. The only thing that separates a level 6 player from a level 30 gold 3 player, other than experience and skill, are goddamn runes. There are still undoubtedly a lot of new-ish players out there who dont really understand how to use runes, as there is like no tutorial or anything, so removing them would reduce this stress and the game wouldn't be so grind-y in that sense.

Worst idea ever.

actually another thing separates them... the fact one is level 6 and the other is level 30...

ahferroin7Aug 7, 20153 votes

Summoner level just dictates how many mastery points, rune slots, and summoner spells you have available. Just because someone is lvl 30 doesn't mean their good, and just because someone is lvl 6 doesn't mean they're bad.

alaskaneagleAug 6, 20154 votes

54367

They just don't want to admit; they are refusing to do it because they don't want people making rooms, taking up server space, forcing them to spend money to upgrade the filthy Americans servers.

EcodeathAug 6, 20153 votes

b. we need to bring this to rito's attention

CreationFlawAug 6, 20153 votes

I literally just have 3 Generic AD/AP/Tank pages because buying a full page takes like.. math times D:

If I were to make a page for Kayle or a hybrid champion, it'd go like this. (Mind you I'm shit tier lmao)

Quint of Armor/MR penetration x3 = 6150, 9 seals of armor for 1845, 9 hybrid pen reds for 7380, 9 AP glyphs for 3690.

That is literally 19065 IP for one rune page that built off hybrid penetration.

TotN TitanAug 7, 20153 votes

Runes aren't necessary to win your lane. They help, but they won't be the end all, be all of why you won or lost. Skill and mastery of your champion still have the majority to do with that. By the end of a 45 minute game, where you have a full item build, you will never look back and say "Darn, I wish I had my hybrid penetration marks instead of my attack damage marks that game. It really ruined our chances to win."

The IP system is actually quite well worked compared to what I have seen some games go with. I don't necessarily feel like it's a grind, since basically I am earning in-game currency just for playing the game I love to play. I can use the currency on everything I could possibly want that would allow me to get better (like runes and rune pages) while also being able to use it to expand my champion pool. The only thing you can't use the IP currency for are the cosmetic type things, which you can invest into with your real cash if you so desire.

Sure, it might take a while to save up for a 6800 IP champion, but when I have a goal in mind, it's definitely not a grind. I buy that champion or that new rune and I feel like I have earned something. It's a far better system than old school vanilla World of Warcraft where you would get into a 40 man raid every week hoping that the one piece of equipment you needed would drop and nobody else would roll on/claim it. Now, you control your own destiny. You determine how much effort you want to put in for that purchase. You can play one game a day or you can play ten, but ultimately it's how hard do you want to work to earn it.

Insane PyromanicAug 7, 20153 votes

Just gonna leave this here, since Monte brings all the points I would cover in a wall of text and more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tdrx3Fohmc

EndlessSorcererAug 7, 20153 votes

It takes ~17K IP to fill out two basic pages (AD and AP) which will sufficiently cover every champion in the game. They won't be optimal pages, but they will be sufficient until you decide to fill out more specialized pages.

I managed to save up that much IP between levels 15 and 20, so I had two full pages as soon as I could purchase T3 runes.

H 3Aug 7, 20153 votes

Couldn't Riot invest in a Central Server and Eastern for NA? The funds are probably there to do so.

AbyssionKnightAug 7, 20153 votes

Yeah it's a rather nonsensical argument.

You grind for champions. You grind for Runes. You grind for Rune Pages. You grind to reach max level. People who want to practice wall jumps or wall flashes, already exist (I remember a few years back a video about korean pros who would spend hours practising that sort of thing in customs), but their grinds are insanely long due to the lack of a sandbox mode to speed things up.

If they don't want that mode to take priority over the normal game then don't let it provide exp, ip, or champion points. Leave the option to add AI at beginner bot levels, and make it so you can have only 1 other player in the sandbox with you max (since most combos you'd want to practice, like something involving kalista ult or tahm ult only require one more person). Doing that would keep the mode from being too enjoyable, so the vast majority of players would avoid farming it.

Yes, at the highest tiers of play people probably would grind it, but not to the exclusion of actually playing the game. After all, bots are never going to prepare you for real players, and if you spend all your time grinding in sandbox mode, you're not actually accomplishing anything, in regards to ranked.

OldUncleNasusAug 7, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yet you are forced to use 50k ip on runes to not lose lane

Nonono, you spend the IP on runes and your $$$ on champions.

This has been riot's business model forever and why the logic "but muh free game why can you complain about stuff" is one of the dumbest arguements in existence.

But honestly as a 5 year player idc I have all champs + 15 rune pages

DinoZyraAug 7, 20152 votes

The Rune Page system is horrible, with only 50-100 per game , even with the 150 ip bonus is still hard to even get the runes , not mention the rune pages. I main jungle , so if most of you don't know , some junglers die in the first clear without the correct rune pages. Ofc you can have 2 rune pages set for 2 champions , but this means i have to play only 2 champions or to change my first jungle clear and lose all my early pressure. I need like 150 games to buy a champion , a rune page and runes .(the rune page is useless without the runes and the rune page is useless without the champion and vice-versa) I am not a hardcore player , I have life to live besides lol , but i love the game and i want to have fun playing and I only play like 4 games per day , thats like 5-6 weeks for a rune page, runes and a champion... instead of learning a new champion I'm stuck with playing the same champions until I get a new "set"(rune page + champion + runes)

I think Riot should make 10 rune pages free or to make all runes free (I mean in order to complete a rune page u need like 5000 ip) [820ip for a cdr rune is...] I mean if they reduce the price of all champions they will lose money so the 10 rune pages aren't too bad for them, but help us a lot.

I'm pretty sure Riot will ignore our complaning about rune pages but at least they should make an ip party in weekends(i mean every weekend) so they will encourage us to play with feeders , to have fun and get some money.

Sry for bad english.

NyáAug 8, 20152 votes

I remember having only 2 runepages, Nowadays ive slowly baught them with IP and now I have 8 and I just cant see myself playing with only 2, i got one runepage for every position that works for most champs, and 3 extras that are more specialised for champs I play more often.