Boards›Gameplay

All jokes aside.. Volibear needs a rework. (+complaints about recent juggernauts)

Moody P··24 votes·11,630 views

But I really, really, hope it's not like these two Aatrox Urgot got. I don't want juggernauts to be absurdly bursty tank-assassins. I want them to live up to the raid boss fantasy of doing a lot of damage by virtue of surviving long enough to make it add up, not getting on somebody and making them vanish.

I'm not a hardcore Voli one trick or anything, but I do like the character a lot, he's been one of my favorites for a long time. I've been mulling over a whole bunch of different reworks because I like to theorize shit and I've got too much free time with myself these days. But... I can't really decide on what I want to do with him, because there's so few things that actually strike me as iconic. In fact, there's only one thing I'd say is actually "iconic" to Volibear.

His ultimate.

I don't find his "run at you fast" thing to be iconic; it's more just a means to an end, as 'funny' as the flip thing might be. I don't find his bite iconic; honestly, despite it being the most viscerally satisfying, it's probably my least favorite spell on him and the one I'd remove first, just because I hate how much it holds the rest of his kit back. His E is.. well, I actually love his E now. I feel like it's a breath of fresh air to give a juggernaut an ability like this; simple, to the point, but has strong potential for powerful usability all the way into Challenger. The ability to deny repositioning and mobility is exceptionally interesting and it's something I'd really like him to keep. But that was a very recent change. Before then, it was a literal nothing-spell, and Volibear was a laughingstock champion. And obviously, his passive is shit. I'd honestly prefer if he got a defensive tool that _wasn't _ sustain because I feel like it's overdone now.

And it's unfortunate, because his ultimate is honestly so damn satisfying when the game actually lets you put it to good use. But it's hindered. By the fact that it's on Volibear. And I'm kind of worried that the thing I strongly resonate with, and want to see him focused around, is probably going to get removed. To me, even if Volibear's kit, even if his role on a team changes, as long as his essence is still there, and as long as he does have a role that belongs to him alone, I'd be OK with scrapping his entire basic moveset. I really would. Which leads me to kind of a rough transition to complaining about recent juggernaut designs.

I don't like the way they've been getting set up recently, where they've shifted from "I will do a lot of damage in a long fight because I will survive long enough to do it" from the very old pre-Juggpatch designs to "I'm probably not going to live very long even though I have 4k health and 200 resists, but I have ridiculous AD ratios so I'm unbeatable with even a small lead." And that's especially what I want to avoid on Volibear because his current idea is "I'll do a lot of damage in the course of the fight if I can survive it." That's what he should focus on. He should want to survive as long as possible in the span of a fight, and he'll do justified damage based on how long he's alive. That's... that's the whole fantasy they're supposed to have, right? Regardless of personal niche, that's the whole point of being a juggernaut.

I don't think I really elaborated in this ramble on what I would Volibear to actually be. This thread wasn't very good. Honestly, I don't really know what I want him to be; I've imagined him being our first hypercarry juggernaut, I've imagined making him a super Vanguard, hell I've even fancied the idea of some weird, goofy marksman bear that shoots lightning bolts. Maybe I'll think of something I'm happy enough with to share on Boards. I've just not really found myself being anything but disappointed in recent juggernaut releases, and I've gotten very jaded about what the future holds for them. I don't want him to be another addition to the already bloated group of anti-melee early game dudes that just shits on everyone who can't outrange me; we have enough juggernauts doing that, and we've got mages doing that too. At the same time, I still want him to be fully-melee; I think that's a really cool design class that's been slowly vanishing from LOL the more champions get reworked. I don't really want a caster monster. I definitely don't want him to be a Triforce bot, because I hate that item and the design stranglehold it's imposed on fighters for years. But.. he's so blank, and I don't know how to fill that in.

I guess I just want him to be better.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/417343820108267542/521131889080139776/VoliTired.png

25 Comments

Frosted Tips12 votes

He is on a long list with Fiddlesticks Pantheon and worst of all DrMundo

Moody P7 votes

Mundo's not that bad an issue design wise.. think the only thing I could fault him for is his lack of downtime on W and his shitty passive.

at least he's got unique qualities and does stuff nobody else can match

Frosted Tips13 votes

What? Mundo is bland and has no synergy.

Passive - just a lazy half assed ability just like all those mana passives that steadily got removed from the game for being bland and uninteractive. Atleast Garen's heqlth regen has a circumstance unlike this pile of garbage champion.

Q - Standard linear skillshot that slows the first target hit. Wow so unique and interesting.

W - negligible AoE damage, but gives constant tenacity. So Shyvanna's old W, but no MS buff and Grant's tenacity wow unique.

E - AD steroid and aa reset. Talk about unique.

R - Balanced around Grevious wounds always being applied because it is a trash ability.

He has no synergy in his abilities and lacks any goal or playstyle besides run at them. Appalling this trash still exists in the game.

Also he is a "Juggernaut" that builds full tank. How does that make sense.

Moody P3 votes

every champion ability needs to be completely unlike everything else or else the champion isn't unique

Mundo is the best answer to mage dominance of probably the entire roster because of how his kit works. role is what makes a champion unique more than anything

Frosted Tips7 votes

That is not at all what I said. He has no unique ability excluding his Ultimate which is balanced around always having Grevious Wounds applied to him. That tells you the Ultimate is unhealthy. The rest of his kit has zero unique parts.

Maokai counters mages pretty well too. Also Braum, Yasuo, Morgana. So yeah I don't find is "unique" role interesting or unique with an outdated kit.

LordGeovanni1 votes

His ult could be balanced around not having grevious wounds applied to him if damage wasnt so crazy where its so much at one time and up so often after being used. that there are no windows to be low as mundo and use ult you have to use it at full hp at the beginning of the fight. His Passive was really good until they nerfed every non ap health item in the game.

Frosted Tips1 votes

No it couldn't because it has never not been balanced around grevious wounds. Even back when damage was low it was impossible to fight him unless you had grevious wounds.

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

What? Mundo is bland and has no synergy.

Passive - just a lazy half assed ability just like all those mana passives that steadily got removed from the game for being bland and uninteractive. Atleast Garen's heqlth regen has a circumstance unlike this pile of garbage champion.

Q - Standard linear skillshot that slows the first target hit. Wow so unique and interesting.

W - negligible AoE damage, but gives constant tenacity. So Shyvanna's old W, but no MS buff and Grant's tenacity wow unique.

E - AD steroid and aa reset. Talk about unique.

R - Balanced around Grevious wounds always being applied because it is a trash ability.

He has no synergy in his abilities and lacks any goal or playstyle besides run at them. Appalling this trash still exists in the game.

Also he is a "Juggernaut" that builds full tank. How does that make sense.

One damage and it's fine. I agree mundo needs to get one damage item but then again, not all classes should follow the same rules.

Frosted Tips1 votes

A Juggernaut should need one damage item some take more than that none should take less.

Moody P1 votes

Mundo buys Titanic or PD if he wants his damage to scale. He already fits your criteria.

Frosted Tips1 votes

Those are only built if super ahead so those do not fit the criteria. Also it should always be there first item because otherwise they should have 0 damage.

Moody P1 votes

no they aren't. Titanic is a core item in Mundo's build. PD is more situational but still very powerful alternative and sometimes the better option.

Also it should always be there first item because otherwise they should have 0 damage.

arbitrary criteria. the entire point of being a juggernaut is having respectable base damage. Not all of them rush damage every game because that'd be really fucking dumb given they're the easiest group of champions in the game to counter. Even Darius sometimes puts off BC/Triforce first if he needs defense for a counter lane or if he's fallen behind.

SanKakU1 votes

Wrong on so many levels. Dr. Mundo in jungle doesn't even build Cinderhulk anymore...almost everyone needs the CDR or they lose out on objective securing. So you can be a drain tank with Death's Dance and with your W/R reducing your HP it increases the damage from E, and you get increased lifesteal with a higher E damage. If you're not building lifesteal on him in this meta, you have no idea what you're actually doing.

BigFBear8 votes

Wtf? His Ult is his most iconic??! No way! Just because it's the most visually ability and just it's the only one that is connected to his lore (thunder/storm/blabla) doesn't make it "iconic". It's the most boring trash ability he has. Zero mechanics, zero fun. It's literally just a DMG buff. If it would be single target at least, but no... has to be fucking AoE.

I play Voli otp since years. Yes he needs an update. But the Ult is the first thing that need to change.

Moody P1 votes

lol of that's you're standard for an ability being good then none of his are.

volis ult is the only thing that other champs don't have a better version of

BigFBear1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qUmWd0Kz,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-12-09T16:43:13.371+0000)

lol of that's you're standard for an ability being good then none of his are.

What standard? Where do I describe my standard of a good ability in my post?

I just said that his Ult is his most boring ability (in my opinion) because it's just a pure DMG buff, nothing more. All his other abilities have some interaction with the enemy at least. With Q you can charge and flip someone (his most iconic ability I would say) his E can stop dashes, jumps midair etc., even his W has a better mechanic although is also just DMG, but you have to build it up before u execute someone.

Tell me who has a better version of Volis Charge+Flip? (Singed? No.) Tell me who can stop mobility midair like Voli? But I can tell you better AoE Ults than Volis R.

GreenKnight6 votes

Please, no more reworks...

Power Cosmic2 votes

Honestly it is all about Return on Investment not balance. Aatrox was similar to Voli, the prior got reworked instead of the latter to make money; not for the actual people that play him.

SanKakU2 votes

Imagine if New Volibear had new Aatrox Q and W with old Volibear passive, E, and R...would be OP.

Kazi1 votes

Yeah .. i hope Mundo gets his VGU soon he has such great potential , now he is just a giant meatball [zombie-nunu-bummed]

The Goodest Boy1 votes

I understand how sometimes you can get burnt out on a champion after trying to make them work for too long and failing. I've found that the best remedy to that, and to hitting a dead end creatively in general, is to get others to bounce your ideas off of. they can suggest even the tiniest thing that could send you on a rampage of creativity.

you could set up a discord or Google drive group or something (which I'd even love to be a part of, just to contribute ideas) :)

Autrah Fang1 votes

I saw your title, and I immediately thought, "Careful, that one person that comes out whenever Volibear is mentioned is gonna tell you he doesn't need a VGU :o" ...Then I looked at your summoner name and I realized, you are that person XD So, I have come to tell you the obligatory, "Volibear doesn't need a VGU" :P

In all seriousness though, I personally would prefer if his flip stayed. They can take everything else and change him completely, but I need that flip to stay. I have some fond memories of playing Volibear with my friend playing Singed in old 3v3, and just flipping people off of their tower and into ours (or close enough). It was hilarious XD

ÈvilMorty1 votes

Honestly right now voli is a poor mans warwick. Heres what I'd personally do Q: Leaves behind a trail of lighting so a successful flip into the lighting ground= Grounded or silenced w: Now resets on champion kills e: Affected champions take more dmg from his w r: Replace current with; auto attacks cause an aoe that electrify enemies caught inside the aoe per auto. 3 stacks causes a bolt of lighting to strike enemies stunning and damaging them. Passive: Its honestly not a bad passive since surviving a fight is literally what its designed for. I'd just change it so it recovers health quicker and maybe add a little damage reduction while hes healing idk

BigFBear1 votes

I like Voli very much (pretty obvious i guess). In my opinion he is underrated (which is good.... for me). He is more fun to play than most people would think.

I like the champion reworks that doesn't change too much and i think it's important that the core gameplay feel the same even if one or two abilitys are different (like Warwick rework).

The special thing about Voli is that he can build tank only and is still a 1on1 monster! This should stay that way. He should still be this unstoppable force that chase down squishys and fighters on all fours and slaughter them. But: Mandatory attack speed on a non AD/Autoattack-champ is questionable.

MY OPINION ABOUT HIS CURRENT ABILITIES:

  • Q: I think his Q (flip) is his most iconic ability and shouldn't change much.

  • W: Personally i like his W very much (because it's a mini execute, a save kill steal) but i can understand when people think it's a bit boring(?) Maybe it could change to a more complex/interesting one. His W also gives him stacking attack speed. Volibear needs attack speed for his W (so he can use it faster) and his R (so it procs more often), also for jungle clear, but honestly.... attack speed on a champ who doesn't build or scale good with AD feels kinda wrong. What i like is that W DMG depends % on his HP. This ability is the reason why Voli is so special. He can go tanky/HP and still deal DMG.

  • E: His E was pretty boring before that mini rework. It's still not very special but it's pretty usefull. Now you have a short time to position yourself for Q while enemy is in the mini knockup (flash on enemy > instantly hit E so he can't flash away > flip him with Q). It should stay.

  • R His R is his most boring ability (maybe non Volibear players can remember it better than E or W because you can SEE it better but that doesn't mean it's iconic). Don't get me wrong: I don't say it's "weak" because it's Voli's best ability to win fights/duells but it's fucking boring since it is just a DMG buff and it should be replaced by something completely different. But it needs DMG or, if it doesn't, another ability (W or E) needs to be his new DMG source. Because Voli without his R DMG is garbage. But it has to be more fun. Another thing I don't like on his R is, that it's AoE. AoE doesn't really fit to Volis Playstyle (and character), he is more that raging beast that focus on one target and chase it down to slaughter it right between his Ally's. Normally as Voli you break through enemy frontline just to nail down that squishy behind it and kill just him/her, ignoring all that DMG that rains down on you from the other four guys. Just like a real bear in kill-mode. Maybe one could make the chainlightning his new W in a weaker version where it jumps to 4 targets instead of 8 and deal less DMG. That would also help him with his not so awesome jungle clearing speed.

  • PASSIVE (+ idea for rework) His Passive, i have to admit, is pretty "showy" BUT it doesn't fit to Volis playstyle imo. I don't really like it. Since Voli is designed to engage in the enemy team pretty fast to lock down and kill a squishy behind the Frontline, he often is alone for a few seconds. He needs something that gives him sustain in this early seconds, not something that proccs at the very end. Atm it's like: You running in with Voli > you fight a few seconds > your HP is dropping > you run out while dropping > your Passive proccs while you are running out > you regenerate/wait between your Ally's > you can go back in fight again with 50% HP. That's not how an all-in armored bear should fight. And if you just stay in fight you will die because the passive is too slow to unleash his full potential against the whole enemy team. I would like to see something like old Mastery: Courage of the Colossus http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Courage_of_the_Colossus_(Season_2017_Mastery) This would fit way better to his engaging playstyle and would give him enough sustain untill his team catches up. Also, a SHIELD as passive would fit awesome to his lore since he is the ARMORED bear!

MY PERSONAL IDEA FOR ULTIMATE REWORK:

It's just ONE idea but my most elaborated one so far.

When he hits R he gains the Power of the Storm and his next ability (Q/W/E) is enhanced. It's like he can chose between 3 different ultimates depending on situation. Its similar to Heimer's Ultimate.

  • R+Q: If he press R>Q his engage becomes faster and he kicks minions and monsters out of his way while chasing. Also he stacks up Tenacity while running (or get a flat amount) so it's harder to stop him. With this enhanced Q he can flip enemy's several meters behind him, 5-10 times further than normal, right into his allyed team (except he stops him midair with his E). Or he can flip an enemy over a wall to save himself. You throw enemy's further the longer you ran with Q. This prevents to throw enemy's several meters right into/behind your tower with lvl 6 in Laning phase, when they stay just in front of you.

  • R+W: Since he has no DMG source anymore from old chainlightning Ult, his R>W needs to become the new DMG-Ult. If Voli press R>W his autoattacks gets bonus magic DMG depending on his HP for X seconds (I know: this would still make AS mandatory for him). Every hit reduces CD on W so he can hit it again to bite/finish enemy targets on low HP (normal W). OR Put Chainlightning here but maybe with added mechanics (for example positive/negative electrical charges that push people away from each other if they have the same charge (++) or draw them together at different charges (+ -). OR Something completely new. But it has to make enough DMG to make him still this kill threat/1on1-god while tanky. Ideally dependent on his max HP.

  • R+E: If Voli press R>E he can use his E on enemy champions like he uses it on minions/monsters and can fear close(?) enemys away with his roar for X seconds.

CONCLUSION:

The best thing about this: With this R rework Voli wouldn't change very much (hi Galio/Poppy/Aatrox) but he would change very much (if you know what I mean). He would stay the same but also would be different and way more versatile and usefull, especially in lategame/teamfights.

He could decide for gap closing (Q), DMG (W) or Deff/CC (E). It would make Voli way more tactical cause you have to be good in decision-making: "should i go for R>Q to catch that dude? But then i don't have the DMG (R>W) to kill him, but my team can"

OR

"Should i use my R>W now to go full berserk but then i have no CC left to retreat"

van Arragon

Yo I actually play volibear quite often in top lane and seem to enjoy playing him alot his lit might not be as flashy as the new character but I kinda like have a older champion in the game I mean now every champ that Riot releases has: a dash, cc ability, sustain/heal and really high damage I don't want Voli to be a new OP champ that is gonna get banned all the time or people gonna be annoyed playing against I hope the just make some visual changes and not a complete rework. And when the are working on him plz give him a cool skin no childish skin but a skin that fits a big bear

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Moody P

ADC players don't seem to grasp the reason they are squishy
Gameplay164 comments
135
votes
Just disable Sejuani then Riot
Gameplay61 comments
118
votes
Top lane is shrinking to range tops and the fighters/tanks who can deal with them
Gameplay197 comments
116
votes
Oh right, the Riot solution: Give it more damage
Gameplay89 comments
116
votes
you can't ask for a diverse meta if you also want surprise champs immediately nerfed
Gameplay69 comments
112
votes
Balancing around people who cant play well is absurd
Gameplay178 comments
103
votes