you think velcoz might be a bit overpowered?

Woook3r·Apr 20, 2016·15 votes·941 views

U can build him tank now rito....he can easily do 1k tru dmg with full tank buillds...

24 Comments

junglerboy16Apr 20, 20166 votes

He could deal tons of true damage before actually, and only people who don't play/haven't played him think this change is crazy. They nerfed his passive (you need to build AP for it to deal significant damage now) and made it so that he has to set up all of his passive procs before ulting, which isn't actually very easy. Once he starts ulting, anyone who hasn't had the passive triggered will the significantly less damage than before. A full channel now gives 900 (+60% AP) base damage plus 410 true damage from his passive, where with the new one he has a chance to deal 1050 (+100% AP) true damage. 1310 (+60% AP) mixed damage when he stacks magic pen is actually stronger than 1050 (+100% AP) unless he stacks a SIGNIFICANT amount of AP and can consistently proc his passive on multiple targets before ulting. This won't significantly change his damage, it will simply require more skill from the Vel'koz, different itemization, and different use cases (since it can deal strong damage to both squishies and tanks now instead of just squishies).

EDIT: You're concerned about him building tank, but his current most popular items are "AP bruiser" items at best, often with significant defensive stats and moderate AP. He'll deal a LOT less true damage than before unless you build AP.

Woook3rApr 20, 20161 votes

it doesnt matter. you wont be able to kill him. its BASE TRU DMG

IcyPepperApr 20, 20166 votes

He gave a long explanation and elaborated his points.

Can you please address it rather than give him a blanket statement that ultimately relates nothing to what he said?

Woook3rApr 20, 20161 votes

youo build cho tank because 1k base true dmg. why wouldnt you build velcoz the same way? Its aoe true dmg.

IcyPepperApr 20, 20161 votes

Well tell him about that, not me.

TahmKench ExpertApr 20, 20161 votes

*turns and faces commenter.

Roar of LegendApr 20, 20161 votes

Because Cho'Gath is on click. Vel'Koz require you to get your passive proc first. You can build him tank right now and still deal true damage. This change doesn't change his play style at all, it just make Vel'Koz feels more rewarding for landing combo which isn't easy.

Woook3rApr 20, 20161 votes

How easy do you think it is to land two w's and a q on one person if NO ONE CAN KILL YOU? Thats WHY you build him tank.

Roar of LegendApr 21, 20161 votes

Why don't you do it right now and see the result for yourself. It's not like you can't deal true damage right now. Go, build him tank and land all the combo, it won't be that much different from how the new Vel'Koz will be.

BladeSteelApr 20, 20161 votes

its not aoe unless his passive procs on EVERYONE ON THEIR TEAM. its not true damage unless the passive procs before you ult.

gatchiApr 21, 20161 votes

Vel doesnt synergize with tank items at all, nor needs them. Cho has health regen (which goes well with building health), is melee (which requires some defensive stats), and gets bonus health from his ult (which goes well with tank items). Cho having good base damages is why he can be tanky at all, and even then you want to get some AP since he isnt the best tank.

Vel, on the other hand.... does not have anything in his kit that goes well with health, is ranged, and has long ranged spells. He's perfect for building AP/MPen, because his "defensiveness" is staying on the outer reaches of a skirmish. Building tank doesnt make you invincible (at least not since the early seasons), so being able to get another rotation off (if you have low enough cooldowns) may not be worth sacrificing yourself. And keep in mind, building tankyness to stave off divers may not go as you plan. You may be able to withstand the damage but you wont be able to prevent body blocking of your q (hindering your damage) and having your spells canceled by enemy CC. Which is unacceptable, as you pick Vel to do massive, indiscriminate damage. If you cant get your damage off (or get less off due to avoiding AP), then you are putting your team at a disadvantage, and you will die anyway because your team will lose teamfights due to your inefficient building.

I know we're all still sore from juggernaut meta and tank Ekko, so everyone is afraid about the new champ to abuse tank/bruiser items. But its not as simple as having high base damages. Ekko does well with tank because he brings utility first, and decent base damages second. Riven can build juggernaut cause she synergizes with titanic hydra and is a spammable machine. Cho gets free health and regen, some ok utility, and decent base damages. See how they are all well-rounded? Vel is not. And is so on purpose. He's great at doing long range damage, and thats it. His CC is intended only to help him land his ult and to make up for being immobile.

In summary, high base damages =/= synergizing with tank items. Its more complicated than that.

junglerboy16Apr 20, 20161 votes

You don't seem to get it buddy, before these changes go through, he ALREADY deals a crap ton of BASE true damage, you're just freaking out because you're ignorant of how Vel'koz currently works.

LadyRenlyApr 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

it doesnt matter. you wont be able to kill him. its BASE TRU DMG

yeah, after you research them

Woook3rApr 20, 20161 votes

which will be easy if you go full tank and no one can kill you before you get 4 rotations off.

Big LincolnApr 20, 20161 votes

I'd just like you to be aware that his passive only deals 10 less base damage now. It doesn't take a lot of AP to overcome that weakness; you only need 25 AP to match it, and with the very high AP builds possible with the item changes, you will be hurting a lot more if you spec into it. High AP builds are much more appealing to him now.

junglerboy16Apr 20, 20161 votes

My bad, I misread that it has a base damage of 25 +5xlvl.

So yes, you're right that he deals roughly the same with his passive (and more with AP), but also consider that he's losing 5 stacks worth from his combo (since his ult no longer applies it), which means in the end it is still roughly the same overall damage, just redistributed throughout his kit.

EDIT: His AP ratios on W and E also took a significant hit with the update, which focuses his power into his passive and ultimate.

Big LincolnApr 20, 20161 votes

yeah I know, just wanted to correct you on the base

Woook3rApr 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

EDIT: His AP ratios on W and E also took a significant hit with the update, which focuses his power into his passive and ultimate.

Meaning he is going to build tank...

junglerboy16Apr 20, 20161 votes

Nope, it means they moved the ratios to his passive and ult. it only reallocates his power to different parts of his kit.

You don't seem to understand design theory very well buddy.

MunchCrunchLunchApr 20, 20161 votes

I mean. he did do true damage. but it was like twitch doing true damage. not a bad amount. but nothing that won him the fight most of the time rather just a little itty bitty of damage that was unnecessary anyway

junglerboy16Apr 20, 20161 votes

A full rotation of Vel'koz's abilities procced 11 stacks of his passive (and if he had another Q off CD by the end, 12) which is 3 (or 4) procs of true damage. That's 615 true damage on top of his high magic damage.

Yes he will probably deal more true damage than before, but not by so large an amount that it will break his kit.

AekoApr 20, 20161 votes

Honestly I like the new changes, it really rewards the good velkoz's, without his ult being able to apply his passive, his damage to back line threats is severely limited because most of the time he will not be able to proc his passive on a good adc without getting in threat range of the enemy frontline. He can melt frontlines easier now, since people tend to stack a bunch of hp and overwhelm velkoz's dps in the late game.

Woook3rApr 20, 20161 votes

you cant qss zed ult anymore. there will be no adc's.

The LovelessApr 20, 20161 votes

I wouldn't say "easily," but...