Neither of Garen's damage bonuses are in his hands

Moody P··4 votes·935 views

Thinking about this, This really bothers me.

Garen has 2 mechanics that let him "optimize" his damage; isolation damage on his E and the Villain mechanic. Both of these mechanics are completely up to circumstance and not in the hands of the player.

The Villain mechanic is obvious enough with how Garen has no say in how it works, so my post will mostly be about his isolation mechanic. Garen does not have the means to rapidly kill a wave or displace someone to make them isolated if they weren't already, and he can't rapidly gap close onto an isolated target unless he has Flash. He has almost no way of actually utilizing this unless he fights you somewhere you can't avoid it, like in the jungle. On the other hand, the person on the receiving end likely isn't even aware Garen has isolation damage to begin with (there is no special visual or noise to tell you he's doing more damage) and they're just suddenly going to take a whole 33% more damage off of pure circumstance. For how much damage his spin can do later in the game, that is enormous.

Why are neither of these mechanics, Isolation and Villainy, in Garen's hands to utilize? You could improve this champion greatly by giving him some mechanical condition that rewards him with E's bonus damage on a more consistent basis than what we have now.

4 Comments

Kazekiba1 votes

What if we removed the isolation mechanic or made it like Karthus Q where it "crits" isolated targets but removed the ability for it to crit regularly?

Judgment crits are what make Garen such a problem in URF, too, although balance in that mode is irrelevant. It's one of the biggest reasons Riot switched to ARURF once it was discovered

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

What if we removed the isolation mechanic or made it like Karthus Q where it "crits" isolated targets but removed the ability for it to crit regularly?

Judgment crits are what make Garen such a problem in URF, too, although balance in that mode is irrelevant. It's one of the biggest reasons Riot switched to ARURF once it was discovered

no one gives a shit about URF. they have ways to balance champions individually for that mode, like they did with the 5% damage nerf to the ability in URF. we shouldnt take it into account when thinking of balance for regular gameplay at all.

im actually fine with the isolation mechanic being semi reliable. its partially in garens control and partially in that of his opponent. it becomes a mechanic around positioning not unlike many other mechanics in this game.

they need to start working on villainy. thats more important, because id like to have some level of control over the mechanic that is the sole deciding factor if i get to be able to fight someone and have an impact on a game or not.

i want to know two things from meddler right now.

1.) do they plan on keeping the mechanic in his kit?

2.) if yes, what do they want to do with it? if no, what do they want to replace it with?

i want to know if they even made a choice IF they want to keep it. when that question is answered, we can sit down and think about the next steps. but dont drag it out for 3 more years. just make a choice.

Moody P1 votes

Why would we balance regular Garen around URF?

Kazekiba1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qBi5kcfX,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-02-28T20:56:38.984+0000)

Why would we balance regular Garen around URF?

Because no one builds crit on Garen outside of it, so it has as much effect on Summoner's Rift as it does on URF when the mode isn't available. None.

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