Why are ADC's So Slow

Woook3r·Jun 14, 2015·1 votes·1,684 views

Most adcs have a base movespeed of about 320-330. Given that they are suppsed to be unarmored ranged units, why do they need to move so slowly? Anyone with a slow or a gapcloser can get them. Why make them slow as hell too?

40 Comments

disregardableJun 14, 20153 votes

That's their weakness. They get lots of really easy, consistent damage in exchange for low mobility and dying when jumped on.

TaarkiJun 14, 20151 votes

But almost every single melee champion has a gap closer so adc just die really fast, especially the ones without a peel or escape move.

Weretiger5411Jun 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But almost every single melee champion has a gap closer so adc just die really fast, especially the ones without a peel or escape move.

Well if the adc spots the melee and prepare they can easily shred the melee to pieces, and I speak from experience.

Woook3rJun 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Well if the adc spots the melee and prepare they can easily shred the melee to pieces, and I speak from experience.

JAX. HIS JUMP IS 700 UNITS....HOW YOU SHRED HIM? HE IS EITHER OUT OF YOUR RANGE OR YOU ARE JUMPED ON.

Sightless66Jun 14, 20153 votes

He jumps on you, gets CC'd by a teammate, then you kill him. You make sure to get some distance on him while he is stunned. You can get away from him easily enough if he jumps in while CC is still available.

If you have no teammates around, you shouldn't have been in range of him. You aren't meant to be able to 1v1 a Jax as an ADC. There is no problem with that.

Woook3rJun 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He jumps on you, gets CC'd by a teammate, then you kill him. You make sure to get some distance on him while he is stunned. You can get away from him easily enough if he jumps in while CC is still available.

If you have no teammates around, you shouldn't have been in range of him. You aren't meant to be able to 1v1 a Jax as an ADC. There is no problem with that.

Noone in bronze wastes their cc on people not attacking them.

Sightless66Jun 14, 20152 votes

Then the problem is with player actions, not the options available. Players failing to utilize their champions properly isn't something we can focus design around.

If you're having a problem with it, play more independent champions. For example, Caitlyn has nothing to fear from Jax. Responding to him is very easy even if teammates aren't helping you at all.

Only Play DariusJun 14, 20152 votes

"Caitlyn has nothing to fear from Jax."

lolwut. Are you sure you are talking about the current Jax, the anti-ADC, who has a gapcloser, stun, and the ability to block ALL autoattacks?

Yea, a completely immobile ADC doesn't have to worry about him, i'm sure.

Sightless66Jun 14, 20151 votes

Completely immobile? Caitlyn? The champion with the long-range dash that also slows people? We're talking about the same champion here, right?

Yeah, she doesn't have much to fear from Jax. Between her dash, slow, and long range, she can get away from him and kite him out very easily.

Only Play DariusJun 14, 20152 votes

Lol I have zero problems dealing with Caitlyn in 1v1's even when playing champs like Nasus MasterYi , I have yet to see a Caitlyn hold her own in a 1v1 except when she is fed, so I refuse to believe she can do anything to jax.

Sightless66Jun 14, 20151 votes

Caitlyn can 1v1 decently well when ahead. Kiting properly with range, the slow and the dash makes it reasonably easy to fight against characters with only one source of mobility. Jax is one of the easier to beat because he jumps in, you jump out with an E+Q, and then he's out of options unless he wants to just walk at you while he's slowed. Nasus and Yi are both significantly better against her 1v1 than Jax is. Yi in particular doesn't care about her E slow and can easily W-block her Q damage then chase her down.

Again though, 1v1 is probably the worst format for judging these characters. Caitlyn's big advantage is safety and the ability to always be putting out damage in a teamfight. She functions very well with even small amounts of protection. That kind of situation is a much, more useful thing to judge her on.

Woook3rJun 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He jumps on you, gets CC'd by a teammate, then you kill him. You make sure to get some distance on him while he is stunned. You can get away from him easily enough if he jumps in while CC is still available.

If you have no teammates around, you shouldn't have been in range of him. You aren't meant to be able to 1v1 a Jax as an ADC. There is no problem with that.

That part where my teammates cc him. Is that something I can do myself? Cause if not, thats not counter play. Again, I dont want to fight him. I want to get the fuck away.. AND I CANT. EVER.

Sightless66Jun 14, 20151 votes

Is that something I can do myself? Cause if not, thats not counter play.

Yes, it is. Counter play isn't just an individual thing. Teammates factor into it. You are not expected to be able to completely and reliably deal with any given enemy on your own. That isn't how this game works, and it never will work that way. It's not possible.

It's also not the only factor in playing against him. Your positioning relative to him and your teammates is something you have control over, and it can keep you very safe. You counter play him by staying on the far end of your allies from him, not putting yourself in active danger, and saving any available mobility skills to get away from him when he jumps. Your allies help you by defending you when he gets too close. There is plenty of room to respond to him there.

Only Play DariusJun 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You are not expected to be able to completely and reliably deal with any given enemy on your own.

MasterYi and his good friend Fiora would like to have a word with you.

Sightless66Jun 14, 20151 votes

What about them? Your point isn't as self-evident as you want it to be.

Is your point that the champions specifically constructed as duelists can take champions on alone? Because if so, that's kind of irrelevant to the current discussion about AD carries. Not all champions or classes have the same capabilities.

Only Play DariusJun 14, 20152 votes

Sorry, thought you were speaking about all champions, not just AD carries specifically.

Sightless66Jun 14, 20151 votes

Ah. I see how it could have come off that way. I'll try to be more clear in the future.

Woook3rJun 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What about them? Your point isn't as self-evident as you want it to be.

Is your point that the champions specifically constructed as duelists can take champions on alone? Because if so, that's kind of irrelevant to the current discussion about AD carries. Not all champions or classes have the same capabilities.

I am talking about the fact that I cant even run from them. They can close huge gaps if given 2 seconds to chase me. I can stand being zoned and being forced to run. WHen you take the run option from me i rage.

Sightless66Jun 14, 20151 votes

Running from them isn't the way to beat them. That should be the worst-case scenario option against them, not something that you default to. Both Fiora and Yi are very vulnerable to being locked down and bursted. Any form of hard CC wrecks their day. If they're zoning you from a fight, stand near an ally that has a hard CC spell. Going on you will pose a huge risk for them.

Woook3rJun 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Running from them isn't the way to beat them. That should be the worst-case scenario option against them, not something that you default to. Both Fiora and Yi are very vulnerable to being locked down and bursted. Any form of hard CC wrecks their day. If they're zoning you from a fight, stand near an ally that has a hard CC spell. Going on you will pose a huge risk for them.

I can 1v1 fiora w draven. You e then back off then go in after parry is down. Not hard. Sometimes rng means you die tho.

Sightless66Jun 14, 20151 votes

Yes, that is another option against her.

Woook3rJun 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qAqVlzk0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-06-14T02:01:52.366+0000)

That's their weakness. They get lots of really easy, consistent damage in exchange for low mobility and dying when jumped on.

That dmg is far from easy. And how am I supposed to position correctly against fiora or jax when I cant move nearly as fast as they do and my range is only 500.

Jax is litterally the most unfair champ if you are an adc. Its so stupid. He just ignores EVERYTHING if anyone even bothers trying to dmg him, he goes super fast, then he jumps on me from WAY outside my auto attack range (700 units). It LITTERALY doesnt matter where i position if he is fed and wants to kill me. So if i did really well in lane, and so did jax, then my game is going to suck because i am the first to die. Every time.

ADC's die when jumped on because they are even more squishy than mages. They dont have a 400 hp dmg item. They dont have an armor dmg item. Thats all fine. Dont make it a fucking joke to jump on me. I have ZERO COUNTERPLAY. ZERO. And my dmg clearly isnt enough to account for that.

Some ADC's have mobility, but those all have higher movespeed too.

Woook3rJun 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That dmg is far from easy. And how am I supposed to position correctly against fiora or jax when I cant move nearly as fast as they do and my range is only 500.

Jax is litterally the most unfair champ if you are an adc. Its so stupid. He just ignores EVERYTHING if anyone even bothers trying to dmg him, he goes super fast, then he jumps on me from WAY outside my auto attack range (700 units). It LITTERALY doesnt matter where i position if he is fed and wants to kill me. So if i did really well in lane, and so did jax, then my game is going to suck because i am the first to die. Every time.

ADC's die when jumped on because they are even more squishy than mages. They dont have a 400 hp dmg item. They dont have an armor dmg item. Thats all fine. Dont make it a fucking joke to jump on me. I have ZERO COUNTERPLAY. ZERO. And my dmg clearly isnt enough to account for that.

Some ADC's have mobility, but those all have higher movespeed too.

I forgot to add the part where he stuns me. He does that too.

disregardableJun 14, 20151 votes

All I can really recommend is practice. Playing safe is honestly not difficult as an adc. Mechanically, it is the easiest role in the game. Fiora's ult is a little low counterplay, but barring that you should have no problems kiting her or Jax with experience.

If you go in every game and take every death seriously, you will improve. You cannot go into a game, die 6 times, and say you did a good job. Also, improving your CS would help hella-lot. Some deaths of course are inevitable, but really there's no excuse to die more than twice per game. That's on you.

Woook3rJun 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qAqVlzk0,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2015-06-14T02:38:38.154+0000)

All I can really recommend is practice. Playing safe is honestly not difficult as an adc. Fiora's ult is a little low counterplay, but barring that you should have no problems kiting her or Jax with experience.

If you go in every game and take every death seriously, you will improve. You cannot go into a game, die 6 times, and say you did a good job.

You have no idea. Jax's Range is 700 units. Dravens range is 550 units. 700>550. Tell me how to kite that and the stun that comes after the gap closer. ALSO, THE REASON I CANT STAY WITH MY TEAMMATES. HERE IT IS> THEY ARE FASTER THAN ME TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sightless66Jun 14, 20151 votes

When Jax jumps, knock him out of it with your E. He'll stop without reaching you, then you kite him with the slow and your movement speed boost. Even if he reaches you, the knock-aside can actually change his positioning enough that you can get out of range of his stun.

Woook3rJun 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qAqVlzk0,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2015-06-14T02:38:38.154+0000)

All I can really recommend is practice. Playing safe is honestly not difficult as an adc. Mechanically, it is the easiest role in the game. Fiora's ult is a little low counterplay, but barring that you should have no problems kiting her or Jax with experience.

If you go in every game and take every death seriously, you will improve. You cannot go into a game, die 6 times, and say you did a good job. Also, improving your CS would help hella-lot.

I get 80 cs at 10 minutes. I get no cs for the next 10 minutes because yasuo or ahri or tryndamere or ANYONE WITH THE WAVECLEAR. takes it all. Thus my cs sucks midgame. There are so many disadvantages to being an adc. There is soooo much counterplay availible for anyone not an adc. Randuins.

disregardableJun 14, 20151 votes

You need to make sure you push the minion wave up so it'll hit their turret before rotating mid. Chill mid for a while, try to take the mid laner's cs and hit the turret, rotate back to bot and repeat. Grab the dragon/teamfight at dragon if it's up when you're roaming between. Don't just camp mid for 15 minutes, especially if you can't CS.

Also, draven has a high range knockback+slow and a speed up. You should have no trouble kiting Jax.

Woook3rJun 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qAqVlzk0,comment-id=000000010000000000010000,timestamp=2015-06-14T02:49:03.652+0000)

You need to make sure you push the minion wave up so it'll hit their turret before rotating mid. Chill mid for a while, try to take the mid laner's cs and hit the turret, rotate back to bot and repeat. Grab the dragon/teamfight at dragon if it's up when you're roaming between. Don't just camp mid for 15 minutes, especially if you can't CS.

Also, draven has a high range knockback+slow and a speed up. You should have no trouble kiting Jax.

Ok I am done raging now. Yes Jax can be dealt with by draven in some circumstances. Not in others. Especially when all my teammates are 20-30 ms faster than me and they just rush off. I just think that the adcs could have some better move speed. Sejuanni can outpace me for crying out loud. The gapcloser is on a low cooldown. I dont need to be riven. Just a little faster.

disregardableJun 14, 20151 votes

Sejuani is the best tank kiter in the game. See post I made 3 months ago about how she out-kited me as Kalista with 2.0 AS and upgraded boots.

Woook3rJun 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qAqVlzk0,comment-id=00000001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-14T03:54:59.525+0000)

Sejuani is the best tank kiter in the game. See post I made 3 months ago about how she out-kited me as Kalista with 2.0 AS and upgraded boots.

The only problem I have is my inability to even run away through my own jungle when given a nice head start. They catch up from across the river and when in a teamfight they always make it to me if they decide to dive. Its not hard for them. AND MY TEAMMATES ARE FAST TOO SO THEY PULL AHEAD AND LEAVE POOR DRAVEN BEHIND> THEY DIE> JAX CATCHES ME> I DIE.

Sorry. Still a little bit of rage.

DreadlocksJun 14, 20151 votes

Because they are ranged yo :o

StrawberrycocoaJun 14, 20151 votes

ADCs have items custome made for them that grant bonus move speed ( item 3046 item 3087 ) so they can make up the difference with items. Plus Melee character have shorter range and need extra move speed to help stick to targets, otherwise they would get out-ran too easily.

Woook3rJun 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

ADCs have items custome made for them that grant bonus move speed ( ) so they can make up the difference with items. Plus Melee character have shorter range and need extra move speed to help stick to targets, otherwise they would get out-ran too easily.

Thats what the gap closer is for. Thats what CC is for. Thats what slows are for. They dont even need a cooldown to catch me?

Weretiger5411Jun 14, 20151 votes

When he jumps, you run, barrier, heal, maybe tenacity and a shield item like item 3072 or item 3026 ,or pray your supp can hold him. but once jax is held as adc you can pick him apart and force him to use his ult. But just to say if your adc you should be with another champ unless you have very good escape.

Woook3rJun 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

When he jumps, you run, barrier, heal, or pray your supp can hold him. but once jax is held as adc you can pick him apart and force him to use his ult. But just to say if your adc you should be with another champ unless you have very good escape.

Thats the point. I cant run. He is too fast. Then he gapcloses from 700 units and i am instantly dead.

Woook3rJun 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

When he jumps, you run, barrier, heal, maybe tenacity and a shield item like or ,or pray your supp can hold him. but once jax is held as adc you can pick him apart and force him to use his ult. But just to say if your adc you should be with another champ unless you have very good escape.

dont forget my allies are faster than me too. Sometimes they like to go off. Not my fault. But I still get blamed for it.

3tysonJun 14, 20151 votes

ima open a whole new world for you

play Leblanc adc..

Only Play DariusJun 14, 20151 votes

This is why smurfs always play Vayne . Of all the ADC's, she is the one that requires the least protection from her teammates. Of course she still needs a fair amount of support, but since they are smurfs they always get themselves fed to the point that they can 1v5 the enemy team so it's not necessary for them.

Woook3rJun 14, 20151 votes

Ive had succes standing what I would guess is 250-550 units behind allied udyr. But his CC is practically free. Oh. And he is free to jet off at 500 ms and leave my ass in the dust. I cant stay positioned sometimes. Someitmes I get caught out because i couldnt run fast enough. Kinda like when theres a bear chasing you, you dont have to be faster than the bear you just have to be faster than your friend who is also running from the bear (pretend its Voli)