Is him being abused top lane against almost every melee champ in the game where the w cooldown isnt such an extremely impactful nerf and where the damage buff will allow him to devour opponents just once and proceed to auto win the lane from there.
This is of course assuming all the changes together dont just murder kench, in which case hed be dumpster trash in every scenario.
Worst Kench NA8 votesHe shouldn't even be toplane. His kit is so much more well designed to be a support. I hate the fact that he does as much damage as he should, and I think that tanks in general just do way too much damage. Him being played top and jungle is an abomination of what his intended role should be.
Ranmiaku1 votes[{quoted}](name=Worst Kench NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q6e8t8HU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-25T20:31:31.948+0000)
He shouldn't even be toplane. His kit is so much more well designed to be a support. I hate the fact that he does as much damage as he should, and I think that tanks in general just do way too much damage. Him being played top and jungle is an abomination of what his intended role should be.
thank you, finally a sensible person, and tanks def initely do wayyy more damage than they should, nothing more frustrating than when you're a fed mid laner or squishy in general and a tank thats not even doing good can just run you down and basically assassinate you and you cant even begin to deplete their health bar..and for the most part tanks also take very little skill
Worst Kench NA2 votesthank you, finally a sensible person, and tanks def initely do wayyy more damage than they should, nothing more frustrating than when you're a fed mid laner or squishy in general and a tank thats not even doing good can just run you down and basically assassinate you and you cant even begin to deplete their health bar..and for the most part tanks also take very little skill
Exactly. There's the "holy trinity" system in MMOs of DPS, tanks, and healers for a reason.
Marksmen, mages, assassins and bruisers are the ones that should be doing the damage. The fact that Garen can run at me with lightspeed, combo and instantly kill me while simultaneously being more unkillable than a dreadnought plated with adamantium is an affront to good tank design. I don't want to see Kench go down that same line.
Ranmiaku1 votes[{quoted}](name=Worst Kench NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q6e8t8HU,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-07-25T20:58:31.117+0000)
Exactly. There's the "holy trinity" system in MMOs of DPS, tanks, and healers for a reason.
Marksmen, mages, assassins and bruisers are the ones that should be doing the damage. The fact that Garen can run at me with lightspeed, combo and instantly kill me while simultaneously being more unkillable than a dreadnought plated with adamantium is an affront to good tank design. I don't want to see Kench go down that same line.
i couldnt agree with you more, the tanks in league are just ridiculous, shouldnt be able to have 7k hp a shit load of resistances and one combo people lol, and on the other side of the spectrum theres chogath, who doesnt quite run you down at light speed, but if he knocks you up.. which also slows afterwards for some retarded reason, silences you so you cant even flash then 1k true damage ult you before you can actually move, oh and his empowered autos also slow you... yeah you're just dead unless you're also a tank or have super high hp, tank assassins are great for balance lol
Ranmaru1 votesBecause if chogath didnt have his ult for damage he would be useless hes a DAMAGE tank
Ranmiaku1 votesBecause if chogath didnt have his ult for damage he would be useless hes a DAMAGE tank
you realise how stupid that sounds right? he can get 10k hp and hes full of cc, he's nowheres near useless without that retarded ult... he doesnt need to be able to assassinate people, a damage tank shouldnt be a thing, now imagine if leona could 1k true damage ult you?
Ranmaru1 votesGaren is a bruiser, You don't fight bruisers in close range.
Tahminatrix 3 votes[{quoted}](name=Worst Kench NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q6e8t8HU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-25T20:31:31.948+0000)
He shouldn't even be toplane. His kit is so much more well designed to be a support. I hate the fact that he does as much damage as he should, and I think that tanks in general just do way too much damage. Him being played top and jungle is an abomination of what his intended role should be.
He was intended to be both a toplaner and a support...you probably wernt here when he was released.
Also lol at anyone who think tahm is purely a tank, even jax has better cc than him, if you are letting tahm get 3 stacks on you, youre doing something wrong because he does very low dmg without his stacks.
Ranmiaku2 votes[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q6e8t8HU,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2018-07-25T22:35:13.156+0000)
He was intended to be both a toplaner and a support...you probably wernt here when he was released.
Also lol at anyone who think tahm is purely a tank, even jax has better cc than him, if you are letting tahm get 3 stacks on you, youre doing something wrong because he does very low dmg without his stacks.
lmfao he does very low damage... great one, and jax has more cc? tahm can slow you, eat you, and stun you one after the other, you clearly have zero clue what you're talking about lmao
Tahminatrix 3 voteslmfao he does very low damage... great one, and jax has more cc? tahm can slow you, eat you, and stun you one after the other, you clearly have zero clue what you're talking about lmao
a tahm with 0 stacks on you will do much less damage than one with 3 stacks.~~~~
The mere fact that tahms cc is all harshly conditional and even single target compared to jaxs aoe stun being as trivial as jumping on someone and reactivating counter attack...
Yes you clearly have zsero clue what youre talking about.
And when did I say tahm has MORE cc, I said jax is better. Done arguing with you, you clearly arnt worth my time.
Ranmiaku1 votes[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q6e8t8HU,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2018-07-25T23:23:44.994+0000)
a tahm with 0 stacks on you will do much less damage than one with 3 stacks.~~~~
The mere fact that tahm
s cc is all harshly conditional and even single target compared to jaxs aoe stun being as trivial as jumping on someone and reactivating counter attack...Yes you clearly have zsero clue what youre talking about.
And when did I say tahm has MORE cc, I said jax is better. Done arguing with you, you clearly arnt worth my time.
lmfao, its pretty easy for a tahm to get his stacks on you in lane, especially since all he has to do is lick you, and if a tahm hits you at all he doesnt have zero stacks stacks any more, you're talking like hes going to be fighting you the entire time with zero stacks, he q's you, theres one stack, and after that he just needs to auto lmao, jesus dude, that sounds so complicated, not to mention it all does %hp damage.. and harshly conditional??? by that you mean when he decides to run you down? ohh you just mean when he lands his long range slow, and the cc has begun, you clearly arent worth trying to explain anything to lmao, im just going to assume you're a butthurt tahm kench main
Tahminatrix 2 votesIf you arnt able to avoid a skillshot that doesn't go thru minions then I have bad news for you, You have absolutely nothing to explain to me and I`m just gonna assume youre a butthurt pantheon main who thinks he doesn't have to respect champions who are half decent in long fights and learn to back off sfter you land your point and click abilities., goodbye lol.
EDIT *** nvm forgive me you are in silver, Im not hating on you at all, im not a much higher elo than you but I do believe somewhere in silver is around the point where people start to learn kiting and attack moving and proper trading, I understand its weird getting used to that, sorry.
You really do need to practice those things if you wanna beat immobile champions like tahm.
Ranmiaku1 votes[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q6e8t8HU,comment-id=000200010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-25T23:55:08.759+0000)
If you arnt able to avoid a skillshot that doesn't go thru minions then I have bad news for you, You have absolutely nothing to explain to me and I`m just gonna assume youre a butthurt pantheon main who thinks he doesn't have to respect champions who are half decent in long fights and learn to back off sfter you land your point and click abilities., goodbye lol.
EDIT *** nvm forgive me you are in silver, Im not hating on you at all, im not a much higher elo than you but I do believe somewhere in silver is around the point where people start to learn kiting and attack moving and proper trading, I understand its weird getting used to that, sorry.
You really do need to practice those things if you wanna beat immobile champions like tahm.
hahahahahaahahahaha a gold 5 kench main, that explains it, and my bad dude i didnt realise youve never been hit by a skillshit, ive never actually played pantheon.. and its not like tahm kench is any harder at all lmao, any by looking at your champion pool, the others arent much different lmao, keep playing the brain dead tanks dude, and keep up the almighty gold attitude hahah, i guarantee im a better player than you, i just dont care to play ranked on this account, and talking about kiting and attack moving??? thats all basics dude, were both trash, enough with the pompous attitude, and since you didnt pay any attention were talking about tahm abusing melee champs... all kinds of kiting going on there lmao, i agree its not hard as a ranged champ, but anyways theres no point even wasting my time here, just a butthurt tahm kench main thinking hes actually high enough elo to look down on anybody lmfao
Tahminatrix 2 votesI didn't know cass was a brain dead tank champ? She is literally one of my mains atm when I don't feel like supporting? Also facts does not equal being butthurt? Tahm has no mobility outside of his R which is very forgiving for the enemy team since it a self cc after he arrives. And how am I looking down on other players? All I did was assume that you don't know how to attack move and trade based on your current elo, if facts and logic are making you laugh then don't talk to me, you keep saying you are wasting your time when I`m the one being generous with mine....Sorry but I simply cant fathom what kind of bias your mind holds and I see now that you aren't the type who can be reasoned with, goodbye for real , don't expect me to even read anything else you have to say.
Ranmiaku1 votes[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q6e8t8HU,comment-id=00020001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-26T00:51:46.081+0000)
I didn't know cass was a brain dead tank champ? She is literally one of my mains atm when I don't feel like supporting? Also facts does not equal being butthurt? Tahm has no mobility outside of his R which is very forgiving for the enemy team since it a self cc after he arrives. And how am I looking down on other players? All I did was assume that you don't know how to attack move and trade based on your current elo, if facts and logic are making you laugh then don't talk to me, you keep saying you are wasting your time when I`m the one being generous with mine....Sorry but I simply cant fathom what kind of bias your mind holds and I see now that you aren't the type who can be reasoned with, goodbye for real , don't expect me to even read anything else you have to say.
lmao you played 11 normal games with her, and shes one of your mains lmao, dude attack moving is basics... and you're talking like you're so much higher elo lmfao, hard stuck gold forever, and you assuming somebody barely even below you in rank doesnt know the basics of the game? thats looking down on people dumbass, you're just bringing up random shit and changng things around... reasoned with hahaha god damn some people, kiting works real well against a kench as a melee champion hahahah
BLIGHTBRINGER1 votesI really hope that Riot won't hit this fellow too hard with the upcoming nerfs to his W.
Hexs Fortune1 votes[{quoted}](name=Worst Kench NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q6e8t8HU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-25T20:31:31.948+0000)
He shouldn't even be toplane. His kit is so much more well designed to be a support. I hate the fact that he does as much damage as he should, and I think that tanks in general just do way too much damage. Him being played top and jungle is an abomination of what his intended role should be.
He was designed from the beginning to function in top as well as support. I'd hate to see Top Tahm Kench cease to be a thing
Worst Kench NA1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q6e8t8HU,comment-id=00020003,timestamp=2018-07-26T15:15:33.728+0000)
He was designed from the beginning to function in top as well as support. I'd hate to see Top Tahm Kench cease to be a thing
And I'd hate to see support Kench cease to be a thing, but this change makes it seem like it'd be awfully pointless to take him there now. I said it in another thread, but I'd also be willing to leave him as it is. I feel like this change is completely unneeded, and is just an attempt to give him a band-aid in this awful game climate where everything does insane amounts of damage.
Nea1043 votesAnother, another freaking buff to damage and nerf to defences (Tham's W as a support, after having laready destroyed him as a tank).
Absurd.
Draconian5652 votesSigh. I wish we had Season 4 damage levels - tanks didn't do as much but were still pickable. Enemies didn't scale as much. Towers didn't fall in 2 seconds because of less damage. Games were longer and took longer to decide than 15 minutes.
Tahminatrix 2 votesAs someone who plays tahm kench top, I already find that my W does less damage than me simply continuing to auto the enemy at 3 stacks so I just save it for something like a 
R
Ofcourse if the enemy is about to back out of a trade it is nice to get that W off at the end..
The W changes wont really murder him in top matchups, but it will make him useless outside of dueling because they are literally gutting his core identity, the whole gimmick of his kit, the one thing that people pick him for.
Does anyone pick 
for just his wind wall? Is yasuo still yasuo without his windwall? No the whole gimmick of yasuo is his high damage and outplay potential.....Why don't we nerf that. Because yasuo is NOTHING without that and so will kench be, absolutely NOTHING if we take his gimmick away from him.
Profirix1 votesEveryone seems to forget that base magic resist removes 15-20% of your damage already. Since you are playing top lane, it is usually a bit higher as bruisers and tanks have a higher base resist. There have been many times where I expected my devour to finish someone off only to have them scrap away with like 10HP.
Draconian5651 votesYasuo would still have double crit, dashes, late game scaling. Kench would sit there, occasionally tongue slapping someone. It would gut him in top matchups since low CD champs like Jax can jump in on Tahm twice (at most) before he gets his W back and damage him for free.
Draconian5652 votesThe damage is actually far less than you think. Over the span of 30 seconds, his current W can be used twice for 40% magic damage at Lv1 vs 31% at Lv1 in the same amount of time. Factoring in 25% base magic reduction on everyone, that's 30% to 23.25% max health.
Now, take into account Tahm's mana pool, which is ~300 mana at Lv1 and ends up at 1005 at Lv18.
Currently, no one is going to let you get a free three stacks on them so you have to use Q minimum, which is 50 mana each devour. That's another 100 mana. He would be at 50 mana after factoring in mana regen, not being able to harass more afterwards, while the enemy is still at 50%-70% health.
And lastly, he doesn't max W first, otherwise he really would never get devours off against semi-competent players. Q > W > E so the damage is stagnant until Lv7/8, which is when he puts a second point in, and the third point at Lv10. Buy a merc threads, his damage falls off even more. Buy a spectral's cowl, well, Tahm's not going to kill you if you play it smart.
There's also the problem where Tahm would not be able to do ANYTHING until his W is back up so the enemy, who likely have sub 10 second CD as top lane or 10-14s CDs as supports, that's a 10-15 second window where Tahm basically is a cannon minion.
Ranmiaku1 votesThe damage is actually far less than you think. Over the span of 30 seconds, his current W can be used twice for 40% magic damage at Lv1 vs 31% at Lv1 in the same amount of time. Factoring in 25% base magic reduction on everyone, that's 30% to 23.25% max health.
Now, take into account Tahm's mana pool, which is ~300 mana at Lv1 and ends up at 1005 at Lv18.
Currently, no one is going to let you get a free three stacks on them so you have to use Q minimum, which is 50 mana each devour. That's another 100 mana. He would be at 50 mana after factoring in mana regen, not being able to harass more afterwards, while the enemy is still at 50%-70% health.
And lastly, he doesn't max W first, otherwise he really would never get devours off against semi-competent players. Q > W > E so the damage is stagnant until Lv7/8, which is when he puts a second point in, and the third point at Lv10. Buy a merc threads, his damage falls off even more. Buy a spectral's cowl, well, Tahm's not going to kill you if you play it smart.
There's also the problem where Tahm would not be able to do ANYTHING until his W is back up so the enemy, who likely have sub 10 second CD as top lane or 10-14s CDs as supports, that's a 10-15 second window where Tahm basically is a cannon minion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1cAeOzjW9M
watch that at 2:20, i dont quite understand where his damage is lacking, he has a corrupting pot, and damn near assassinates the camille
Draconian5651 votesHail of Blades is a terrible rune on Kench for 2 reasons. Yes, you get insane cheese potential off, but in exchange for not being able to push the wave for 5s, no base AS at Lv1, etc. You wouldn't be able to push waves after a kill or after a skirmish for 5 seconds, in exchange for 3 hits, which SRO acknowledges at 5:54. After a couple of cheeses, who's really going to let you get it off if they have a dash like Camille.
Camille stepped up WAY too close as well. At 5:30, Camille literally just stood there in his leg sweep. This goes back to the main point that people are too squishy with the loss of MR runes. But even before that, Camille misplaying like that does not excuse her from being punished, just because she's a bruiser. And it's no wonder. His lane opponent has never played Camille before:
You're watching SRO, who might know a lot about wave management, but can you honestly say that half of his videos' builds would never work consistently, even if they're semi-niche, unless he wasn't playing in an elo far lower than he should be? This was a Gold 3-Gold 1 game when he's easily Diamond 2-3.
His mid and jungler were actually smurfs as well (or just had really questionable win rates):
Would you play this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kObaJGFGEXk
Or this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2X5OjP81Rw (granted it's not as meta)
SRO does stuff for content. Especially when his name is SRO, you really shouldnt be trusting him on champions beyond what he's played a lot recently or is known for (Crocodile Boy).
I think this is SRO: http://na.op.gg/summoner/champions/userName=solorenektononly But like I said, he's D3 in a G3 game.
And look at the W damage, it's 100-150 damage early. That's nothing. The damage isn't even what's doing a lot.
Ranmiaku1 votesHail of Blades is a terrible rune on Kench for 2 reasons. Yes, you get insane cheese potential off, but in exchange for not being able to push the wave for 5s, no base AS at Lv1, etc. You wouldn't be able to push waves after a kill or after a skirmish for 5 seconds, in exchange for 3 hits, which SRO acknowledges at 5:54. After a couple of cheeses, who's really going to let you get it off if they have a dash like Camille.
Camille stepped up WAY too close as well. At 5:30, Camille literally just stood there in his leg sweep. This goes back to the main point that people are too squishy with the loss of MR runes. But even before that, Camille misplaying like that does not excuse her from being punished, just because she's a bruiser. And it's no wonder. His lane opponent has never played Camille before:
You're watching SRO, who might know a lot about wave management, but can you honestly say that half of his videos' builds would never work consistently, even if they're semi-niche, unless he wasn't playing in an elo far lower than he should be? This was a Gold 3-Gold 1 game when he's easily Diamond 2-3.
His mid and jungler were actually smurfs as well (or just had really questionable win rates):
Would you play this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kObaJGFGEXk
Or this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2X5OjP81Rw (granted it's not as meta)
SRO does stuff for content. Especially when his name is SRO, you really shouldnt be trusting him on champions beyond what he's played a lot recently or is known for (Crocodile Boy).
I think this is SRO: http://na.op.gg/summoner/champions/userName=solorenektononly But like I said, he's D3 in a G3 game.
And look at the W damage, it's 100-150 damage early. That's nothing. The damage isn't even what's doing a lot.
ok calm it down, thats just the first video i found, and regardless of how much of a monkey the camille was or the elo, the damage was there, and thats my point
Lajinn52 voteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1cAeOzjW9M
watch that at 2:20, i dont quite understand where his damage is lacking, he has a corrupting pot, and damn near assassinates the camille
To be fair that Camille played like a monkey. You don't go outside your minions when fighting Tahm unless you're confident that you can dodge his Q, Kench is a lane bully who rules over most champs at levels 1-3 if you don't play against him properly
Friendly Ram1 votesThe cooldown for w is the same when used on enemy champs according to rioters.
[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LagLwtvo,comment-id=0028,timestamp=2018-07-26T00:15:45.483+0000)
This was just a part of the list in testing. The full list is below - but note that since we're targeting 8.16 this could still change a lot!
Tongue Lash (Q) Slow Duration :: 2 >>> 1.5 Cooldown :: 6 >>> 5
Devour / Regurgitate (W) Damage :: 20/23/26/29/32% (+2% per 100AP) >>> 27/29/31/33/35% (+1% per 100AP) Cooldown :: 14/13/12/11/10 >>> 28/25/22/19/16 Cost :: 90 >>> 60 NEW :: Triggers half its normal cooldown on enemy cast
Draconian5651 votesYes, I know. I left a comment already xD Thank you friendly goat friend.
Shrek Luigi2 votes"Playing Champions In A Role I Dont Want Them To Be In Is ABUSE"
Ranmiaku1 votesi hope they nerf tahm into the ground, im so sick of just getting run down by tahm kenches top lane as a melee champ, actually zero skill requirements, and honestly just ridiculous
Profirix3 votesMust be a Riven main.
I kid. But top lane is not where he needs help. Try playing with or as Tahm Kench as a support. You will get destroyed by your other duo assuming they aren't brainless monkeys.
Ranmiaku1 votes[{quoted}](name=Tongue in Cheek,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=q6e8t8HU,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-07-25T20:19:14.723+0000)
Must be a Riven main.
I kid. But top lane is not where he needs help. Try playing with or as Tahm Kench as a support. You will get destroyed by your other duo assuming they aren't brainless monkeys.
nah i hate riven too much to ever start playing her, and its only right that tahm should be able to get kited out, his ability to save teammates and ult them around the map more than makes up for any weakness as support
Blakiepug1 votesAs a Tahm Kench main, I find this really sad. I have been playing League less and less lately and seeing that Riot wants to nerf Tahm of all champions, when he has already been struggling for so long to stay relevant, honestly just sickens me.
