Really people? A thread on reducing TRUE damage gets front page? We wont be taken seriously...

Reformedfindlay·Jun 17, 2018·109 votes·20,533 views

EDITOR'S NOTE: title misleading, a thread on AN ITEM REDUCING TRUE DAMAGE...

It's one thing to ask for true damage nerfs (aka nerfing conquerer, wuju style, etc.).

It's another thing to completely warp true damage by offering an item that REDUCES TRUE damage.

REDUCE TRUE

???

Unbelievable. I fucking despise a guinsoos yi as much as the next guy, but a suggestion to add an item like that is stupid and fucks over a ton of champs who have a more legitimate access to true damage (like darius who has to work his ass to make his dunk do something).

115 Comments

ModCaptainMårvelousJun 17, 201840 votes

While it's easy to look at a problem, the solution is almost always harder to create.

"Damage is too high in the game so reduce everything by 10%" "True damage is busted so add an item that counters true damage" "Towers are weak so just give them a trillion stats".

Not to say boards can't have good changes but people need to zoom out and consider the whole game affect, not just the balance equivalent of an amputation to fix the short term but cause issues in the long term.

MarshbouyJun 17, 201813 votes

tbh I don't disagree with buffing towers, even if it's just slapping on 30 more armor or something.

ModCaptainMårvelousJun 17, 20188 votes

{quoted}

tbh I don't disagree with buffing towers, even if it's just slapping on 30 more armor or something.

Oh you can absolutely buff towers (and I think they could use a buff or two) but people want to go all-in on a single buff.

giantZorgJun 17, 201812 votes

This season taught players that all-in is always the way to play without the availability of proper defensive runes, so it's logical they want to do the same here.

Madsin25Jun 17, 20182 votes

Dam..

Captainn GinyuJun 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

While it's easy to look at a problem, the solution is almost always harder to create.

"Damage is too high in the game so reduce everything by 10%" "True damage is busted so add an item that counters true damage" "Towers are weak so just give them a trillion stats".

Not to say boards can't have good changes but people need to zoom out and consider the whole game affect, not just the balance equivalent of an amputation to fix the short term but cause issues in the long term.

Damage is insanely too high I'm pretty sure right now most supports are running damage builds because who needs to support when you can out damage the other team

There is indeed to much true damage and it needs to be toned down true damage should be a niche thing, not a "everyone can have it!" thing making building anything but raw health against it pointless an even then depending on the champion that won't help you

towers are paper tigers sure they look mean but at the end of the day there pointless a 3-4 man gank can guarantee a double kill and id bet money all 3 of the divers could walk out from under the tower without dying on top of that B back to the fountain and your turret is gone

there's a way to fix these things and it starts by reducing damage overall instead of allowing it to run rampant this game was originally about skill who could beat who with what counter positioning timing it was more about skill-less about who can nuke who first nowadays even countering a champion wont matter as long as whoever is being countered can out damage the other

ModCaptainMårvelousJun 18, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Captainn Ginyu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K6snmzOu,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2018-06-18T00:28:46.061+0000)

A bunch of words snipped for lenght

Kinda missed the point I'm making.

I'm saying that regardless of whether these are problems are not, the solution almost always lands (in the community territory) of the nuclear option. It reminds me a lot of Season 1-3 where if something was too strong, Riot would obliterate it to the point of it not being playable. See: Olaf, Evelynn, Poppy, etc.

Balance suggestions should be about fixing a problem while minimizing impact so you can have the good aspects of what something brings while removing the problematic aspects. Giant, blanket nerfs/changes don't really fix that and instead create entirely new issues.

HyquiemJun 18, 20181 votes

Except true dmg isn’t busted and it’s not so fairly dealt unless you have perma red buff for some odd reason.

Acheron16Jun 18, 20181 votes

Of course it isn't busted. So far it was very sparingly given to characters and mechanics, but now they are starting to give it to everything. Crit? True damage Conqueror's? True damage

True damage wasn't busted, but by giving to everything we have WILL make it busted.

HyquiemJun 19, 20181 votes

You do realize mages have had 2% true dmg under the radar with this item 2139

Acheron16Jun 21, 20181 votes

And how many mages buy that before hitting end-game?

DanjengJun 17, 201814 votes

Wait until Riot releases a new mechanic called pure damage that ignores the true damage reduction lmao. They just keep pumping out excessive mechanics that eventually become problematic so they give another mechanic to counter the first one, which also ends up being overused and problematic.

ahferroin7Jun 17, 20181 votes

Actually, that used to be a thing. The summoning platform turret used to ignore all forms of damage reduction or mitigation, and the damage it dealt was known as 'pure' damage.

The SoulforgedJun 17, 20185 votes

It still does. Ignores tryn ult, kayle ult, etc.

ahferroin7Jun 18, 20181 votes

It doesn't ignore things like Vlad pool, and it used to do so.

The SoulforgedJun 18, 20181 votes

I don't remember it ever going through stasis/untargetability.

MidEvilKnight3kJun 17, 20186 votes

Pure damage already exists. It penetrates invulnerability and kills through revive passives. Only the fountain has it though.

goodiesohhiJun 17, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Pure damage already exists. It penetrates invulnerability and kills through revive passives. Only the fountain has it though.

"Incorrect". Sion also inflicts pure on himself in passive.

SarlonDubiousJun 17, 20187 votes

Asking for something that just nullifies true damage is just silly. It sucks but that's kind of the point.

Daddy AntsJun 17, 20187 votes

An item that reduces True Damage?

That completely defies the point of TRUE DAMAGE.

Another shitty suggestion from Boards.

Eternal TormentJun 17, 20183 votes

Well, Boneplating apparently does reduce true damage even thought it is not a shield.

If there is a mastery, who is to say there will not be an item? Knowing riot and their "fresh over balance" mentality, there will be something like that at some point. what we can hope for is that this point is not anytime soon.

FutureCreatorJun 17, 20182 votes

It kind of IS a shield though, it's just not one shown on your champ's HP bar.

Daddy AntsJun 17, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eternal Torment,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K6snmzOu,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-06-17T20:52:12.184+0000)

Well, Boneplating apparently does reduce true damage even thought it is not a shield.

If there is a mastery, who is to say there will not be an item? Knowing riot and their "fresh over balance" mentality, there will be something like that at some point. what we can hope for is that this point is not anytime soon.

Bone plating is coded as a shield.

No damage reduction effect works vs True Damage.

Exhaust, Phantom Dancer, Irelia W, WW E, Alistar R for example do not work vs True Damage.

The only ways to prevent True Damage are Shields or Invulnerability effects.

No item in the game should exist with a sole purpose to reduce True Damage.

The whole point of True Damage is it means to be exactly that. TRUE.

Do the damage it states without being reduced.

Ayanami3rdJun 17, 20186 votes

Riot could just revert some of the recent true damage BS they released (Conqueror, Ignite buff etc.). Anyway, it's absolutely correct that true damage is part of the snowball problem.

Real Sexy YoonaJun 17, 20186 votes

Yeah, and it's such a tragedy that this thread is getting down-voted by angry people. It's one thing to make an unintelligent remark, it's another thing to be butt-hurt and salty just because someone calls you out on it. Like come on, the next thing you can do to redeem your act of stupidity is accepting the truth and understanding your shortcomings. Resisting it any further makes you look like a moron and decreases the credibility of boards overall- which then makes it harder for Riot to take us more seriously. For real, it's so unhelpful. [sg-janna]

I honestly do agree on nerfing sources of true damage (it's unhealthy for the game), but not by changing the meaning of true damage. If there is an item that reduces true damage, true damage can no longer be true damage by definition. You might as well say delete the true part of true damge or change true damage to "true-damage-in-most-cases" damage. Which is dumb. Riot rarely gives feedback, even to suggestions THAT ARE ACTUALLY GOOD. Do you legitimately think you are going to get a response to "give us an item that reduces true damage". Just stop. Please.

xJLx MCHammerJun 17, 20185 votes

Taric Kayle Offer the ability to stop true damage

lets not pretend that it's far fetched. 2 years ago, if you had told players that majority of champions would be able to do true damage, they would have laughed you off to the pub

DuskDaUmbreonJun 18, 20181 votes

Because the majority still can't.

Assuming it's split about even between AD and AP, we still have tanks (who don't usually do true damage). So even if every AD champion in the game could use conquerer (they can't, as it's bad on assassins and ADCs), we still wouldn't have a majority of champions dealing true damage.

Unless you're talking about smite, red buff, Elixir of Sorcery, or some other damage that's either so minor it has to be true to be relevant (Such as Twitch's passive, which would, early on, tick for less than a single point of damage against anyone with even armor or MR), or that generally isn't applied to champions anyways. In which case, sure, you're right. But the majority of champions could do it then, anyways, because literally everyone has potential access to red buff.

Also, Kindred and Tryndamere do, as well. As does Fiora, with her W. Xin Zhao, too.

But invulnerability or otherwise outright ignoring damage isn't the same as reducing it.

xJLx MCHammerJun 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Because the majority still can't.

Assuming it's split about even between AD and AP, we still have tanks (who don't usually do true damage). So even if every AD champion in the game could use conquerer (they can't, as it's bad on assassins and ADCs), we still wouldn't have a majority of champions dealing true damage.

Unless you're talking about smite, red buff, Elixir of Sorcery, or some other damage that's either so minor it has to be true to be relevant (Such as Twitch's passive, which would, early on, tick for less than a single point of damage against anyone with even armor or MR), or that generally isn't applied to champions anyways. In which case, sure, you're right. But the majority of champions could do it then, anyways, because literally everyone has potential access to red buff.

Also, Kindred and Tryndamere do, as well. As does Fiora, with her W. Xin Zhao, too.

But invulnerability or otherwise outright ignoring damage isn't the same as reducing it.

Majority of champions have access to true damage

You can argue that’s not the best build part but they do have the option

Any bruiser can run conqueror Any ad champion can run crit build

Troll for TrumpJun 17, 20184 votes

A true dmg reducing item that could be built by specific sets of champions that's situational could be fine. If it's something built by everyone, then just reduce true dmg overall.

Say, for example a tank item that counteracts %max hp true dmg (or true dmg in general) but doesn't offer offensive combat stats. The item would be less gold-efficient so champs don't build it all the time.

Better, straightforward solution is to reduce true dmg for certain champs, but the notion of such an item existing isn't necessarily complete trash.

And yes, this is from a Darius one trick. Yes, it'd shit on his ult.

King LegoJun 17, 20183 votes

As a Velkoz main, and seeing this type of suggestion? I finally understand why riot doesn't listen to us. Is this some kind of bias from tank mains who got triggered when the tank meta was finally over? Nobody likes balance and fair plays i suppose. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

TyroneWatermelonJun 17, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Lego,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K6snmzOu,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-17T18:23:19.765+0000)

As a main, and seeing this type of suggestion? I finally understand why riot doesn't listen to us. Is this some kind of bias from tank mains who got triggered when the tank meta was finally over? Nobody likes balance and fair plays i suppose. [slayer-jinx-unamused]

and biased mage mains sure do cry when the 24/7 waveclear mid meta got nerfed

TheCodeisCupCakeJun 17, 20183 votes

I mean. I didnt think my thread would piss you off that much

ReformedfindlayJun 17, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I mean. I didnt think my thread would piss you off that much

more astonished at the level of stupidity than pissed.

TheCodeisCupCakeJun 17, 20185 votes

{quoted}

more astonished at the level of stupidity than pissed.

Level of stupidity? Egotistical much?

Riot insists on adding true damage. And to my knowledge have no plans to remove it. I thought this would be a good way for everybody to win.

'reformed' btw

GayFluffyUnicornJun 17, 20185 votes

You just powercreep the game with these anti X mechanics. HAvent you noticed by now? Grievous wounds is the best worst example of this. This will happen to anti shield too if riot keeps adding this shit and it would happen to true dmg if they added an anti true dmg mechanic.

JusticePauldronsJun 18, 20183 votes

The entire point of True Damage is it can't be mitigated...

BestPudgeNAJun 17, 20182 votes

{quoted} It's another thing to completely warp true damage by offering an item that REDUCES TRUE damage.

REDUCE TRUE

???

Towers already do this. Check mate nerd

SlashStrikerJun 17, 20182 votes

meanwhile there are champions that got stuns, slows, knockups, knock backs, deal shittons of damage, are tanky as hell with extra shields and are mobile on top of that

TakaDamaJun 17, 20182 votes

Since it is true damage on autos that is the issue, why not more blind/dodge mechanics?

DecritJun 17, 20182 votes

just my 2 cents:

boards here is filled with people that either want to gather resentment toward a specific point in the game, or people that stopped playing/play much less but don't want to lose the status of lol player.

it has been filled with shallow and baseless points, from reducing true damage to thinking that Aatrox is a new Riven ( which is honestly laughable, having seen this from back Morgana = Lux ).

VelasanJun 17, 20182 votes

The answer to true damage is straight damage reduction which some champions DO have, it's just not that common. The other answer is shields or barrier summoner spell.

Daddy AntsJun 17, 20184 votes

{quoted}

The answer to true damage is straight damage reduction which some champions DO have, it's just not that common. The other answer is shields or barrier summoner spell.

No its not.

The answer to true damage is SHIELDS.

No damage reduction effect works vs True Damage.

JRobin31Jun 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

EDITOR'S NOTE: title misleading, a thread on AN ITEM REDUCING TRUE DAMAGE...

It's one thing to ask for true damage nerfs (aka nerfing conquerer, wuju style, etc.).

It's another thing to completely warp true damage by offering an item that REDUCES TRUE damage.

REDUCE TRUE

???

Unbelievable. I fucking despise a guinsoos yi as much as the next guy, but a suggestion to add an item like that is stupid and fucks over a ton of champs who have a more legitimate access to true damage (like darius who has to work his ass to make his dunk do something).

ikr, an item that reduces true damage is a terrible idea. But it's a suggestion on what to do. I prefer that to a front page thread that is just a complaint about the game with no suggestion on how to improve it.

ValyrianBladeJun 18, 20182 votes

{quoted}

EDITOR'S NOTE: title misleading, a thread on AN ITEM REDUCING TRUE DAMAGE...

It's one thing to ask for true damage nerfs (aka nerfing conquerer, wuju style, etc.).

It's another thing to completely warp true damage by offering an item that REDUCES TRUE damage.

REDUCE TRUE

???

Unbelievable. I fucking despise a guinsoos yi as much as the next guy, but a suggestion to add an item like that is stupid and fucks over a ton of champs who have a more legitimate access to true damage (like darius who has to work his ass to make his dunk do something).

Err, we have an item with an active that reduces true damage.

It's called Gargoyles Stoneplate.

It back-handedly reduces true damage by instead increasing your health. So the damage reduction of the active applies equally to true or non-true damage...

While directly reducing true damage is illogical, Riot has already figured out how to reduce true damage. So making an item with this as a passive effect instead of an active effect? Would require something like: "passive: reduces armor and MR by 10%. Increases health by 30%"

There, the item reduces true damage by more than it reduces physical/magic damage. It's busted (on health-scaling champions like Cho'gath) and therefore may need further refinement (e.g. reduces all health scaling by 30%), but that wasn't the point of this post...

TheMinionLeaderJun 18, 20182 votes

The counter to reducing true damage is usually hp, but yi kinda goes around that through his build path. For every other champion your logic seems sound.

gabetheguyJun 18, 20182 votes

and yet they wonder why nobody takes these godforsaken boards seriously.

HalcyonDwellerJun 18, 20181 votes

There already are items that do this: Frozen Heart and Randuin's Omen... O-wait, Yi's ultimate ignores attack speed reduction doesn't it? Or does it just ignore soft cc like slows?

DuskDaUmbreonJun 18, 20181 votes

I'm pretty sure it only reduces MS slows. But I believe AS slows are also soft CC.

HalcyonDwellerJun 18, 20181 votes

So Frozen Heart would work against Yi even during ultimate for sure.

Randuin's Omen might or might not work, possibly depending on if the cc gets bundled or not?

Edit: WAIT Randuin's reduces crit damage so if the Yi gets his true-damage through IE then it might get reduced before conversion, right?

DuskDaUmbreonJun 18, 20181 votes

It would reduce the non-converted damage, I believe.