"he literally decides what your first item is by simply being in your lane"

SwapShadows·Aug 21, 2015·4 votes·810 views

so this is a quote about someone complaining that they need to get zhonyas against a Zed.

Just like when a zed has to get hexdrinker against an AP mid Or when Malphite has to get armor against a riven Or when annie gets a abyssal against katarina

So people seriously think itemization doesn't exist in this game, people think that just because annie is on the enemy team you don't need to buy an abyssal as first item to help you out because that "forces" you to buy something you don't want,

26 Comments

Stiv1234Aug 21, 20155 votes

Just like when a zed has to get hexdrinker against an AP mid

You serious? I havent seen a Zed with a hexdrinker since ages (not to mention it is waaaaay stronger than Seekers).

SwapShadowsAug 21, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You serious? I havent seen a Zed with a hexdrinker since ages (not to mention it is waaaaay stronger than Seekers).

Well idk what players you're playing with but yea Zed almost always gets hexdrinker against AP mids

Stiv1234Aug 21, 20154 votes

Zed almost always rushes Brutalizer or Botrk cause he does not need the defense. He wins every all-in anyway.

SwapShadowsAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Zed almost always rushes Brutalizer or Botrk cause he does not need the defense. He wins every all-in anyway.

lol

LajneenAug 21, 20151 votes

item 3191 is one of the most gold efficient items in the game and item 3157 is arguably the best item in the game.

Stiv1234Aug 22, 20151 votes

The best item is still item 3361 .

Knight SoIaire Aug 21, 20154 votes

This are the facts as i understand them

a champion that you can counter itemize with only one item is crap ... thats a bad side of zed

but the gameplay that this creates due to the sheer extend this item couters him is also crap ... thats a bad side of this ballance

now lets look at how zed or should i say riot handles that

a)since zed's ult is removable and counter items are easy to obtain on top of being good ... zed gets additional power ... which enforces the items to be bought in order to counter zed ... if you wont buy them you have no chance ... It is a shitty loop of zed being compensated for being handicapped which makes it so enemies need to handicap zed b)Since items wreck zed hard ... he usually finds himself unable to function in teamfights ... since his targets are immune to him

Let me say this clearly here ... the way that riot handled this is complete shit for both sides enemies are forced to build accordingly to enemy champion under a threat of losing a game you can counterbuild a mage in loads of ways that will suit you ... you always have choices ... countering zed has none, you are forced into one specific item

While zed plays a game of "i need to destroy everyone before i will be removed from this game"

overall there is bad gameplay given to both sides just because zed's ult is removable

also THIS IS HIS ULTIMATE ... THIS SHOULDNT BE REMOVABLE WITH A BUTTON PRESS

7ha7guy777Aug 21, 20152 votes

Malzahar What if i told you Zed affects my second item instead of the first?

MilfHuntUnitXJ9Aug 21, 20152 votes

This argument is completely halved, 50% agree 50% dis.

However, when you are facing a champ and you believe that buying a certain item based on the fact you are facing that said champ or that you are facing a fed champ is a mindset that will stab you in the back in the future.

You should always buy what is/what you feel will be best facing that champ in that scenario.

Be situational not the same every time

LuggAug 21, 20152 votes

The problem with HAVING to buy an item against a certain champion is that it keeps you from building what your champion needs to succeed in your role for the team.

If you are forced to buy Zhonyas as an AD mid, you really are crippled.

SwapShadowsAug 21, 20153 votes

{quoted}

The problem with HAVING to buy an item against a certain champion is that it keeps you from building what your champion needs to succeed in your role for the team.

If you are forced to buy Zhonyas as an AD mid, you really are crippled.

zhonyas on an AD mid? what are you talking about lol

TraakSCAug 21, 20151 votes

LOL i thought the same thing. wut in the world is that guy talking about.

TraakSCAug 21, 20151 votes

Wut?

FacerollKatarinaAug 21, 20151 votes

I think Kat is the one getting the abyssal vs annie ._. just your typical kat main strolling through tho dont mind me

SwapShadowsAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think Kat is the one getting the abyssal vs annie ._. just your typical kat main strolling through tho dont mind me

They both get an abyssal, why wouldnt they?

FacerollKatarinaAug 21, 20151 votes

Idk I don't play annie much but i know if im vs a good annie as katarina i rush abyssal

Shroom JunkieAug 21, 20151 votes

I don't get why this is being downvoted... I mean, he's right, you have to itemize based on the champion. Granted it sucks to be an AD champ against a Zed because now you have to rush QSS which only blocks part of the damage and doesn't effect the rest of his abilities, or when you don't use the active or have it up. But either way he is right about itemization... building Spirit Visage on Dr. Mundo vs a full AD team isn't good, no matter how good the rest of the stats are, MR just isn't helping at all.

TraakSCAug 21, 20152 votes

I mean isn't this common sense? The entire point of items is to optimize your chances of winning against the enemy team composition. What is the point of this discussion?

SwapShadowsAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I mean isn't this common sense? The entire point of items is to optimize your chances of winning against the enemy team composition. What is the point of this discussion?

You must not be active on the forums

people think that buying zhonyas or qss early in the game because they're up against zed, ww etc is unfair

TraakSCAug 21, 20151 votes

Ahh actually I've seen similiar posts where ADCs complain about tanks building too much armor and health. My bad, I didn't realize your tone in the OP. /cheers

Shroom JunkieAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You must not be active on the forums

people think that buying zhonyas or qss early in the game because they're up against zed, ww etc is unfair

Gonna be totally honest, being AD against them is pretty unfair but only in the fact that QSS has no damage until upgraded to Mercurial, and even then the MR is totally useless against Zed. Maybe nerf the QSS MR and replace it with armor so it has an even amount? Idk.

GinoSoldierAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

so this is a quote about someone complaining that they need to get zhonyas against a Zed.

Just like when a zed has to get hexdrinker against an AP mid Or when Malphite has to get armor against a riven Or when annie gets a abyssal against katarina

So people seriously think itemization doesn't exist in this game, people think that just because annie is on the enemy team you don't need to buy an abyssal as first item to help you out because that "forces" you to buy something you don't want,

My main issue with Zhonyas is even though the active is fantastic (potentially, there's always those times where it turns out to be amazingly useless), the build path is crap, and the item itself addresses none of most mage's issues with CDR/mana/mana regen early needs. In AP vs AP's case, there's at least five different good first items; Grail, Morello, Abyssal, Luden's, Archangel's(add in Lich's for a few champions). AP vs AD gives only Zhonyas, and maybe as a potential substitute, RoA.

So you get to potentially nullify an ult/burst, and some armor with good AP, but will still likely run out of mana ridiculously fast and have no CDR. We need a lower cost/lower AP item that gives some armor and something else besides. It also brands you as a massive target for any AP jungler, by the way.

dannykunAug 21, 20151 votes

If Seekers gave better stats AP mids wouldn't have to rush Zhon's (though the Active is more than worth it), I'd honestly say I wish there was better itemization against him when you're an ADC other than rushing QSS. Good item, but not a good first or second item if you are looking to actually play as an ADC and win the game.

SwapShadowsAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If Seekers gave better stats AP mids wouldn't have to rush Zhon's (though the Active is more than worth it), I'd honestly say I wish there was better itemization against him when you're an ADC other than rushing QSS. Good item, but not a good first or second item if you are looking to actually play as an ADC and win the game.

Actually QSS is a better counter than zhonyas towards zeds ultimate.

Zhonyas forces Zed to run away and causes that 1v1 to be a neutral standoff

QSS on the other hand removes a ultimate that otherwise would do like 40% of a ADCs HP so it allows them to effectively kite Zed and force him away/kill whereas zhonyas just forces him back.

dannykunAug 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Actually QSS is a better counter than zhonyas towards zeds ultimate.

Zhonyas forces Zed to run away and causes that 1v1 to be a neutral standoff

QSS on the other hand removes a ultimate that otherwise would do like 40% of a ADCs HP so it allows them to effectively kite Zed and force him away/kill whereas zhonyas just forces him back.

yes I will admit that QSS is a very strong counter to him, but can you name an ADC that could possibly deal enough damage in teamfights with just a QSS and maybe a pickax, a BF if you're in gold or above, Because the Barrier to entry is pretty hard as it is. Unless you're snowballing hard, that QSS is pretty much 30% of your IE that you couldn't grab because by the time you're at lvl 8-9 zed's already capable of destroying you at 75% health with just his ult and a well placed combo. Requiring either a personal bodyguard at all points in time or a QSS to survive is pretty bad design, especially considering that mercurial only gives you dmg, and a movespeed buff for when zed jumps on you, and none of the other important stats an ADC needs to be relevant.

An item that gave armor and some damage that could be upgraded would be amazing in helping ADC's survive AD assassin's, Something akin to hexdrinker or even abyssal would do very well. It's not that building QSS is bad, but rather that itemization against AD assassin's are piss poor for any AD scaling champs.