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Can we talk about how is wukong is garbage compared to all divers of his class ?

ValiantKiller··9 votes·5,719 views

MonkeyKing That dude is the worst diver i saw in the game so far, and don't tell me he work as perfect assassin cause he isn't and i'm sick of this honestly. Renekton Kled can destroy champions in lane from all types from squishy to juggernauts to tanks plus they scale decent and they have amazing sustain to duel any champion through the game. LeeSin Vi XinZhao are powerhouse that can duel as well having sustain of either shield form or heal form plus they can putting the same amount of damage as MonkeyKing while building more defensive than him.

Diana my favorite AP diver assassin that can just burst anyone with 2 items spike even if they tanker or got mr boots early plus she got better sustain than MonkeyKing

And i want to point out that everyone of this divers got some sort of CC on their normal skills outside of their R, yet MonkeyKing the only diver that lack CC and it only come in form of his R.

In general MonkeyKing is a fail as diver and as assassin, the only one of his class that can't duel juggernauts or tankers and only work as niche pick assassin to burst squishy put him against a tanky combo and he ruined for good.

Not to mention how he is mana hungry champion and that most of his skills suck and useless plus that useless passive that you don't want to give a rework after all of this years, i'm really sick of this way you treating MonkeyKing you forcing players to play him full offensive and they will fail badly if they can't position right or some of their teammates exposed them.

41 Comments

Silent Reaper11 votes

You might be forgetting something important about his ult. AoE Stun. Very few champions have access to it.

ValiantKiller3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Silent Reaper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pxqXExVn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-01T11:57:55.897+0000)

You might be forgetting something important about his ult. AoE Stun. Very few champions have access to it.

Doesn't make a difference, still he is the worst of his class and plus that an hyper ap and tanky Amumu would do the same thing with much more damage

Fire Blaustoise3 votes

Wukong has no stun.

saltran5 votes

Sorry, technically its an aoe knokcup.

Spicy Rice1 votes

You are right, its worse, as you can't qss it

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

That's a knock up not a stun and It's not this god like ability that everyone makes it out to be. a knock ups effectiveness is based on how long the enemy is in the air for which is for about 1 second in Wukongs case. for comparison, Amumu has a 2 second stun on his Ult that is instantaneous to all enemies within the AOE, along with the damage. Wukong's damage is over time and only knocks up each target on their first tick of damage . Meaning it is very possible to CC lock Wukong or just plain dash out of the way before taking anywhere near the full brunt of his Ult's damage or even getting knocked up if you are fast enough. This isn't even mentioning that the rest of Wukong's kit lacks any kind of shield, alternate CC or sustain mechanic that could help him survive compared to other Divers, getting focused during his Ult and only has up to 40 extra armor and MR to let him notice that he IS being targeted and it's time to end the Ult and hopefully be in a situation that will let you decoy away, which even then isn't a grantee that you will make it out of there.

Schenix2 votes

Alistar Rakan Ekko Zilean Zac Viktor Veigar Varus Morgana Malphite Kennen Amumu Cassiopeia Chogath Zyra Syndra Aatrox Corki Nami Poppy

You can notice how all of these champions were at one point from last season to this, competitively problematic anyway other than Veigar with his weak early laning, Amumu with his lack of early pressure and objective control, and Wukong who was used 2 or 3 times for assassination when they thought it might work. Wukongs entire kit is really just polarized simplicity that no longer holds up. Even Veigar has a near ultimate class ability on his E that has more pressure than Wukongs ultimate if the monkey isn't unbelievably fed, and supersuper minion Veigar is a pretty old champion. Wukong has incredible potential as a champion, even if you look at how DotA 2 did Wukong. It's not particularly difficult to find ways to make Wukong less binary and more interactive, or at least fit his role.

mack911210 votes

well ya thats why he needs a full update

ValiantKiller2 votes

{quoted}

well ya thats why he needs a full update

And they not planning on that at all

mack91121 votes

In time man

ValiantKiller2 votes

{quoted}

In time man

Yah in time when they have a plan to gain alot of money from him.

mack91121 votes

That's a pretty terrible perspective man

Blue Moon Wolf2 votes

You'll have to forgive the bleak outlook. a lot of us have been waiting for years for him to be updated and for at least the past 2 years Riot has finally said that he'd be updated, only for Riot retract it before it happens (this has happened at least twice now). Because of this, a lot of us have little hope that he will EVER be updated in any way and for the most part don't have any trust in Riot's willingness to Update him.

mack91121 votes

I mean I have never heard of any official announcement of his update beginning so I don't know we're the two years things comes from .

It is a large game with a lot of champions these kinds of things take time.

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

Back when there was the Diver update he was right up there with Aatrox to be an Updated diver, outranking even Xin at the time. that of course got canceled and we were left with the promise they'd go through each diver individually... but that never happened and they've moved on from Diver related updates for the most part with Wukong being more or less left up in the air. For this update Riot even held back the update to Wukong's title in order to have him fit into the lore better, something I was really exited about, but now has been all but forgotten about by Riot seeing as they haven't even bothered to update his title in the mean time.

Then more recently we were told he was on the short list of gameplay updates (Lissandra and Karma level updates were frankly is a place he should be). This list "was" 11-15 champs that will be getting updated between larger projects and he was quite high on that list. But later on this random poll Riot decided to bring to light said that China was satisfied with how he plays and even though he was one of the most requested in both NA and EU, that They would not be updating him due to China's decision on the matter.

mack91121 votes

Interesting i must have missed that usually im pretty up to date with that stuff

Blue Moon Wolf1 votes

To be fair, some of this is info that you'd have to be searching for at the time it was said. Riot, as much as I'm not to happy with how they've been handling Wukong, are pretty open on a lot of details when they are able to talk about it. Mainly it's details from posts that a Rioter just happened to chime in on conversations that this info comes from. There is this one Rev3 post on one of Meddlers Gameplay posts that was him clarifying something he commented on in a normal post, not even asking about Wukong, but rather just updates in general. Honestly it's why I dislike it when people ask me to find the source for this stuff. I remember the details but the posts can go back years and don't always relate to Wukong specifically, so I can't just type in "Wukong" in the search, go back a year or two and find the specific comment I'm referring too T.T

ValiantKiller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blue Moon Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pxqXExVn,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-02T00:12:52.574+0000)

Back when there was the Diver update he was right up there with Aatrox to be an Updated diver, outranking even Xin at the time. that of course got canceled and we were left with the promise they'd go through each diver individually... but that never happened and they've moved on from Diver related updates for the most part with Wukong being more or less left up in the air. For this update Riot even held back the update to Wukong's title in order to have him fit into the lore better, something I was really exited about, but now has been all but forgotten about by Riot seeing as they haven't even bothered to update his title in the mean time.

Then more recently we were told he was on the short list of gameplay updates (Lissandra and Karma level updates were frankly is a place he should be). This list "was" 11-15 champs that will be getting updated between larger projects and he was quite high on that list. But later on this random poll Riot decided to bring to light said that China was satisfied with how he plays and even though he was one of the most requested in both NA and EU, that They would not be updating him due to China's decision on the matter.

And ofcourse thanks a special china company that own league of legends, they are forced to listen to them and keep wukong in his shape without any change or bright future for any type of rework.

DuskDaUmbreon8 votes

The problem is that Wukong, when meta, has zero counterplay.

Instant burst from stealth, point and click dash with a range roughly that of most autos, undodgeable point and click AoE knockup...

Wukong has too many problems to let him be viable. Most of the viable divers have some form of counterplay - Dodge Camille's E, dodge Irelia's E and avoid fighting while her passive is up, dodge Diana's Q to deny her R resets, etc.. Wukong has no such counterplay. If Diana is 7/1/6, she still has enough of a delay and is telegraphed enough that an equally fed juggernaut or tank can keep her off the squishies. Same for Irelia or Camille. If Wukong is 7/1, he's going to dash in, use his ult, and then get out under stealth (or stealth, dash in, and ult away), even if there's a 76/0/324 Nasus with an actual 4 million stacks sitting right there.

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

The problem is that Wukong, when meta, has zero counterplay.

Instant burst from stealth, point and click dash with a range roughly that of most autos, undodgeable point and click AoE knockup...

Wukong has too many problems to let him be viable. Most of the viable divers have some form of counterplay - Dodge Camille's E, dodge Irelia's E and avoid fighting while her passive is up, dodge Diana's Q to deny her R resets, etc.. Wukong has no such counterplay. If Diana is 7/1/6, she still has enough of a delay and is telegraphed enough that an equally fed juggernaut or tank can keep her off the squishies. Same for Irelia or Camille. If Wukong is 7/1, he's going to dash in, use his ult, and then get out under stealth (or stealth, dash in, and ult away), even if there's a 76/0/324 Nasus with an actual 4 million stacks sitting right there.

And that is my point here we are forced to play him in one style which is very offensive cause outside of that, there no hope for wukong and there no point of playing him plus that why everyone ask for rework but ofcourse riot doesn't want to rework and think that giving Morgana reworked over him is a good idea.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Morgana's getting reworked because Kayle's getting reworked, and that fits thematically or something like that (because they're sisters, so it'd be like if Renekton was getting an update and Riot went "Yeah, let's give Nasus a VGU while we're at it"). Morgana is also only getting a VU (which takes no kit design resources, as a VU is entirely graphical) and a possible update to her passive and/or W (which isn't too much work overall).

Morgana is basically just getting an Ezreal level rework for lore reasons.

Now, as to why Wukong has to play one style, it's because that's what usually works best on him regardless of what Riot does. Look at j4 - he's meant to be a bruiser designed to fight for a while, but he usually just builds straight lethality, facerolls the keyboard, and kills the ADC before they can blink. Same thing for Wukong. And Riot hasn't really had the time to update him yet (as there are other champions who arguably need them more and are arguably wanted more).

...Also sorry if that made no sense at all. I should have gone to bed a half hour ago.

ValiantKiller2 votes

{quoted}

Morgana's getting reworked because Kayle's getting reworked, and that fits thematically or something like that (because they're sisters, so it'd be like if Renekton was getting an update and Riot went "Yeah, let's give Nasus a VGU while we're at it"). Morgana is also only getting a VU (which takes no kit design resources, as a VU is entirely graphical) and a possible update to her passive and/or W (which isn't too much work overall).

Morgana is basically just getting an Ezreal level rework for lore reasons.

Now, as to why Wukong has to play one style, it's because that's what usually works best on him regardless of what Riot does. Look at j4 - he's meant to be a bruiser designed to fight for a while, but he usually just builds straight lethality, facerolls the keyboard, and kills the ADC before they can blink. Same thing for Wukong. And Riot hasn't really had the time to update him yet (as there are other champions who arguably need them more and are arguably wanted more).

...Also sorry if that made no sense at all. I should have gone to bed a half hour ago.

Atleast JarvanIV can work as frontline and can build tanky while able to suck damage and have nice decent base AD unlike wukong who forced to build full ad to get the best of his AD scaling cause there no base AD.

Fire Blaustoise3 votes

Wukong was never meta. I dont know for low elo, but in D1+ he's always trash. This pick is only a low elo issue (but everything is an issue for them).

saltran4 votes

You are just lying, he had good stats even on high elo, hell he was even played a by Caps on the LCS.

He deserved every single nerf and he wont be buffed back to his braindead state, he just needs a rework and I hope he will get one.

Fire Blaustoise2 votes

{quoted}

You are just lying, he had good stats even on high elo, hell he was even played a by Caps on the LCS.

Lying ?? Bro i say he was never "meta" i didnt say he was unplayable. For Caps... he even played Vayne mid.

He deserved every single nerf

no. He deserved nerf, but not what they did.

he just needs a rework and I hope he will get one.

We all.

chipndip16 votes

Wukong is bad!

Compares to Vi

Like...Vi's also just as garbage...

ValiantKiller2 votes

{quoted}

Wukong is bad!

Compares to Vi

Like...Vi's also just as garbage...

Still got many different playstyle , able to suck damage and peel as frontline plus she got early cc for ganks

Fire Blaustoise1 votes

both are trash tbh.

ValiantKiller1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pxqXExVn,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2018-12-01T23:22:18.229+0000)

both are trash tbh.

True

Handy Sandy 6 votes

He has a 50.08% winrate top and the 2nd highest winrate for games that last 30-35 minutes, 5th for 25-30.

7th highest wr jungler.

He's not complete trash but he really does need a rework. Riot can't get every champion at the same time though because other champions need reworks just as much Zac Sejuani Gnar ect.

ValiantKiller2 votes

{quoted}

He has a 50.08% winrate top and the 2nd highest winrate for games that last 30-35 minutes, 5th for 25-30.

7th highest wr jungler.

He's not complete trash but he really does need a rework. Riot can't get every champion at the same time though because other champions need reworks just as much Zac Sejuani Gnar ect.

Again my post is about kit compared to his class not the winrate.

Fire Blaustoise4 votes

And ?? everyone (but this boards) know wukong is trash.

ValiantKiller3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fire Blaustoise,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pxqXExVn,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-01T14:46:16.538+0000)

And ?? everyone (but this boards) know wukong is trash.

But this boards and riot*

Fire Blaustoise2 votes

yeah... but riot seems deconnected. Its not surprising a support/adc mains as meddler think Wukong is strong tho.

Daddy Ants3 votes

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/8.23/platinum/plus/champion/MonkeyKing/Jungle/

Seems garbage to me....

[zombie-brand-clap]

ValiantKiller2 votes

{quoted}

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/8.23/platinum/plus/champion/MonkeyKing/Jungle/

Seems garbage to me....

[zombie-brand-clap]

You know i talk about kit wise not winrate not his pick rate, that win rate come from his toxic one shot kit

Fire Blaustoise2 votes

He's trash, indeed. They're a reason why so pickrate is so low in diamond... and decrease the more you climb the ladder. Its hard to explain it to lower elos, cause i need to talk about the whole game...

Rıots Bad Client1 votes

They need to flatten his Q damage, Maybe trim the late game stuff for some early stuff. Because Q Only have a 10 base damage at level 1.

ValiantKiller1 votes

{quoted}

They need to flatten his Q damage, Maybe trim the late game stuff for some early stuff. Because Q Only have a 10 base damage at level 1.

We all asked for that and they ignore simple things like that, we want base damage on our skills so we can build like diver we don't need scaling AD ratio like assassins we want sustain, dueling and base AD.

Maybe give his W some sort of healing if someone attacked it, or maybe a more useful passive that give shield or some sort of spellvamp for each enemy around us not flat useless armor and mr.

Bisaknosp1 votes

can we also talk about him having less counterplay than the other divers?

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